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Very good l'Escargot. Gold star, and sit at the front.
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Very good l'Escargot. Gold star, and sit at the front.
I feel that in the context of this thread I'm already sat at the front proudly displaying my gold star!
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L\'escargot.
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So what's your take on the tickets on the cars belonging to the marine wardens then? Should they all have driven round trying to find an NCP car park, or did they (shock horror, God forbid) MAYBE think that getting out of their cars and doing their job was somehow more important? Terrible English in that first sentence, my apologies!!!
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"I've never seen any evidence that all traffic wardens are inherently evil"
Evil people have goatee beards. Any Star Trek fan knows that.
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He's right you know. My Inglish teecher had a goatee. And look where he got me!
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My take on traffic wardens is that they do not have superhuman powers. So to expect them to know that cars belong to people who are saving the whale is sheer muppetry:-) (about the standards of the people reporting it then)
As l'escargot I never get tickets when I park legally. So I think wardens must be doing soemthing right.
Most illegal parkers appear to get what they deserve.
madf
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The original posting omitted one other fact of life under a bonus scheme, (OK, so here the bonus is that they keep their job!). If targets are met, they are obviously understated! Hence next years targets will be higher! To achieve the higher targets when the market is saturated will require a degree of mis-selling, and hence the evil prevail.
As an aside, I have always thought that wardens are generally on the small side. Is this prejudice or a mis-observation? I reckon the same sub class also includes ticket inspectors (or revenue protection operatives), many customer service agents who sit behind glass screens and volunteer football referees. However with increasing levels of violence directed at wardens, maybe Darwinian selection will prevail, and the future promises a breed of supersized wardens.
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pmh (was peter)
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"However, all of our cars have 'marine ambulance' on the side or 'marine medics'... and I would have hoped they would have given us the benefit of the doubt."
Madf, you don't need superhuman powers to be able to read. I would imagine even traffic wardens have got that level of education...
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Discrection should have been applied in this case but was not.
My view is that anyone who wears a hat is a jobsworth, and a traffic warden more than most. A working class person doing this to another working class person/hero is simply dispicable.
The individuals who done this are the scum of the earth and should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
"This post is not an opinion of this website, it is my own personal view" if they want to sue me.
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How very odd - its only a fine, so this talk of scum seems out of proportion. So far as our area is concerned the wardens are generally doing a worthwhile job: you can actually park near the shops now, the disabled-bay pirates are less numerous, and the parking on the pavement is being slightly deterred.
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We're not talking about your area. We're talking about people doing a valuable and humane job with little funding having this funding taken off them by fussy, inflexible traffic wardens. I utterly agree with you about disabled-bay pirates (like the phrase!) and the like, but that's not what is the issue here.
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If the rescuers have a case to argue, they can take it up with the LA. As can anyone who feels there are mitigating circumstances - but the wardens on the front line are probably not given discretion. For discretion, you pay more and train more, and require a person better able to deal with balancing the issues. You want "efficient" "cost effective" public service - you get a privatised, low-labour cost, production line approach. See the article here: www.newstatesman.com/200408300014 Otherwise, just making the point that the wardens do a worthwhile job: how they do it is not in their gift sometimes.
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but the wardens on the front line are probably not given discretion. For discretion, you pay more and train more, and require a person better able to deal with balancing the issues. >>
Perhaps they are not officially allowed to exercise discretion however it really does only take a bit of common sense, after all they/he/she must have walked along an embankment with lot's of people hanging over the parapet, they must have looked over to see a group of individuals attending to an 18ft whale, not an every day sight, they must have read the papers, seen the TV news, heard the radio news, discussed it with friends and colleagues ..... they then walk on and see a vehicle on an expired metre, 'doh what does that say, "Marine Vet", let's give 'im a ticket' . .........
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Do agree that in your scenario Cheddar, they may have been over-zealous. They might have thought of radioing in to Inquisition HQ for advice. Maybe they did.....
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A working classperson doing this to another working class person/hero is simply dispicable. The individuals who done this are the scum of the earth and should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. "This post is not an opinion of this website, it is my own personal view" if they want to sue me.
>>
So - if a working class person (whatever that means) did this to a middle class person (whatever that means) that would be OK would it?
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What are you wibbling on about?
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Stuartli has hit the nail on the head. Who in their right mind would apply for a job as a traffic warden - even less as a parking attendant. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I should imagine the IQ of the average parking attendant is somewhat less than average, and their tiny minds are unable to cope with the excess of power that is thrust upon them. Indeed, most people of low intelligence tend to act in a similar fashion when given an ounce of authority. School caretakers spring to mind. I recall a rather obnoxious individual who led his head teacher a merry dance. He always asserted that he was in charge of the school and not the head. Similarly, parking attendants probably think that they are in charge of the country and not our erstwhile president, Tony Bliar.
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Without wishing to label all wardens, I have to have my doubts.
I drive a convertable car, consequently I carry a small peice of tape which I use to stick the non sticky tickets of CMK to the windscreen of my car. I habitually stick them in the corner of the windscreen closet to the machine. So sometimes on left sometimes on the right.
Imagine my amusment to recieve a demand witgh menaces from CMK LA.
I happened to still have the ticket so sent it off with a recomendation that extra glasses be purchased :) they sent me a we'll let you off but here's a picture of your windscreen... except it was a picture of half my windscreen... just visible in the bottom corner... yep a parking ticket.
Oh well... it makes life fun I suppose.
In the last year I have successfuly argued against wrong tickets 4 times. On 1 occassion I was in the wrong I paid up.
A difficult job maybe.. much muppetry... definately
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You can't expect a recently-arrived 30-year-old Ghanaian to see himself as working class in the same way as a rich plumber with a newish BMW. Class solidarity is a bit of a heavy hitter for this context, surely? Anyway as any Marxist will tell you private automobile ownership is bourgeois individualism writ large, so it might even be just a bit pretentious to claim to be working class if you've got a motor, especially a nice one...
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As I have a Nigerian girlfriend I can tell you that a large number of the wardens in London are recent immigrants from Nigeria. One is a surgeon who can not get his qualifications recognised here for some reason although he is working at it.
Also, anyone who has lived in Lagos is not in the least worried by what the worst an British Chav/Hood can throw at them.
My point is that the system is corrupt and those within it are just reacting to that. We need a motorist party and we need to vote.
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Spot on Thommo (about Lagos!). Dunno whether a motorist party wd work although actually if everyone joined it would have a majority I'm sure... I saw an attendant round the corner from me stand unmoved under a twenty-minute 1,000-decibel tirade from a geezer with a white van, then walk away perfectly happy. The system as run now is very annoying to motorists and a few simple rule changes would improve it. But I wonder if we Toads and Dukes and Mr Magoos would be satisfied for long...
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>>I should imagine the IQ of the average parking attendant is somewhat less than average, and their tiny minds are unable to cope with the excess of power
.....or they do have brains, are told how to do their jobs and are pig sick of being abused and insulted by illegally parked and idiotic punters who believe that this law does not apply to them.
They are told to ticket illegally parked cars. If discretion is reuqired, then the relevant authority/company is quite able to show that discretion.
Hardly the traffic warden's fault.
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It is quite simple.Do not park illegally.So many people think because they own a car they are more important than anyone else.
What they really need to do is to get off their junk food induced lard asses and walk to McDonalds/Burgerking.
Instead of insulting other peoples jobs perhaps they should take a look at themselves and see what they contribute to society.
And no i am not a Traffic Warden and yes i own 3 cars, but cars are to get you from a to b, not to say " oh look at me i am wonderful, i own a car, i can park where i want"
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That is a point, I suppose, but I still refer you to Cheddar's comment above in regard to the incident of the marine folk being ticketed. They CANNOT have been unaware of what was going on, and that just makes them spiteful. Whether it's fair or not, they have a dreadful reputation, and doing things like that doesn't help their case! If they do have brains, they're not using them are they?
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The fact is that there are rights, wrongs and exceptions, most people who are ticketed are in the wrong, some are in the right and succesfully appeal, IMO a few, like the marine vet guys are exceptions which I reckon the average Traffic warden really should be able to cope with.
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The fact is that there are rights, wrongs and exceptions, most people who are ticketed are in the wrong, some are in the right and succesfully appeal, IMO a few, like the marine vet guys are exceptions which I reckon the average Traffic warden really should be able to cope with.
The problem is, going back to my original theory a little, that you see lots of wardens patrolling the same territory. If one exercises discression and leaves the vets' cars then the next one to come along will ticket them anyway, and get the brownie points from the boss. For his/her conscience, the warden who didn't issue a ticket is one step closer to getting the sack.
I'm not trying to say that traffic wardens are evil because it's little Hitlers who go in for that sort of thing. My argument is that the way their departments are run makes it impossible to be a warden with any sense decency. You ticket anything stationary that has wheels regardless of the circumstances, or you lose your job.
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AngryJonny (was E34kid)
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Look its a rubbish job. Nothing but hastle no thanks from anyone on either side, Would you do it?
We get the wardens we deserve.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The road by my office has single yellow lines, which are designed partly to protect the people emerging from my car park. Too many people park over the end of the lines and block our view as we exit. So we are overjoyed when the wardens come and encourage them to book these miscreants.
Last week, such a miscreant had parked a long way over the end of the line, partly blocking the way out of the car park. A warden came along on his bike, as I was driving in and he sailed on by the offending vehicle. I wound the window down and hollered at him. He came back, had a look and said that as the yellow line was a bit feint, he would not book him!!! Idiot - what about blocking access to the highway - 'Oh thats the police sir, not me'.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Read TVM's post: would you do it? My guess is these people get so much carp from all directions that they just get narrow-minded, when they weren't to start with. After all this is just parking. If you really want to meet evil power-crazed morons, try primary schoolteachers. Warping the minds of innocent nippers for life. This parking stuff is just knockabout comedy for the most part, not serious in any way.
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Last week, such a miscreant had parked a long way over the end of the line, partly blocking the way out of the car park. A warden came along on his bike, as I was driving in and he sailed on by the offending vehicle. I wound the window down and hollered at him. He came back, had a look and said that as the yellow line was a bit feint, he would not book him!!! Idiot - what about blocking access to the highway - 'Oh thats the police sir, not me'.
Would you really blame him? Hated by the public, harassed by his profit-making employer, paid appallingly low wages -- and you ask him to do something which could cause him more grief when the miscreant goes along to pepipoo or some other bunch of ignore-the-law advisors and clogs up the system with complaints on the technicalities.
As TVM rightly says, we get the wardens we deserve.
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The theory as proposed is easily verifiable.
We need some figures on traffic warden turnover, and then we need some interviews with sacked traffic wardens to establish the reasons.
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The theory as proposed is easily verifiable. We need some figures on traffic warden turnover, and then we need some interviews with sacked traffic wardens to establish the reasons.
That's not necessarily a sufficient sample base. Surely what really matters is the ones who are brassed off, but stick out the job, taking out their frustrations on the public. The sacked ones are no longer a problem
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It's all very well to talk of not ticketing people with signage on their vehicles. BUT: if other motorists realised that, there would be a spate of cars /vans etc illegally parked with spurious signs on them.
Whilst I will fully agree there are some wardens who are offficious and petty, if they don't ticket all illegal parkers I doubt if their bosses will let them keep their jobs for long. And discretion can so easily be abused.
If we want to blame anyone, blame their employers who tolerate/encourage bad attitudes.
As far as a motorists party is convcerned, I'd vote for one if it encouraged more traffic police to book the idiots driving at 40mph in a 30 limit, passing zebra crossings at 50 whilst overtaking when a pedestrian is on the crossing (yes really: happens frequently near us).
I'm afraid when I hear these calls, I look around and see the abuses carried out daily by local motorists .. and say nope.!
madf
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The problem of traffic wardens is not as bad in the rural ares I work in. Maybee as there are far fewer warden they feel a need to actualy be acountable as they are personaly seen on a daily basis as oposed to the safety in numbers fealing that wardens in a large city must feel.
As a prime example on several ocasions when unloading equipment in larger citys I have been ticketed despite clearly displaying a sign saying working at X and it being obviouse that equipment is being unloaded. In a more ruarl area the warden will mearly check that i am actualy working on the premises and tell me to move once i have unloaded.
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That is a point, I suppose, but I still refer you to Cheddar's comment above in regard to the incident of the marine folk being ticketed. They CANNOT have been unaware of what was going on, and that just makes them spiteful. Whether it's fair or not, they have a dreadful reputation, and doing things like that doesn't help their case! If they do have brains, they're not using them are they?
Most Councils have taken a policy decision to remove discretion from the attendants. The boys in the office will consider extenuating circumstances on a more consistent basis and away from the heat of the moment. There will be cases where less heat is generated by discretion on the road but as others have said that raises issues of training etc.
Incidentally the current legislation requires representations from owners to be considered by Council employees not the contractors who issue the tickets.
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<< Who intheir right mind would apply for a job as a traffic warden - even less as a parking attendant.
Perhaps someone who is unemployed and has been unable to get another job in their preferred field? If I was in that situation I would take anything, even if only as a stop-gap, until I found something better paid.
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L'escargot.
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Mods,
The bold is once more assuming more authority than it has actually been given. (A bit like some people think traffic wardens do!)
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L'escargot.
{sorted. You didn't include a "b" in the command to switch off the bold text. ie you put (/) instead of (/b) - substitute brackets for less than/greater than characters. DD}
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"That's not necessarily a sufficient sample base. Surely what really matters is the ones who are brassed off, but stick out the job, taking out their frustrations on the public. The sacked ones are no longer a problem"
True, but the theory states that the number of "bad" wardens increases as the "good" ones leave.(good = human, bad = jobsworth) To test that you need to interview the leavers to establish whether they really do fall into that category.
If, for example, it turned out that they left quite randomly, say because they had found better paid jobs, or preferred a job with more challenge and power such as a concentration camp guard, then the theory of increasing proportions of bad ones would fail.
It would be a different theory, that they start off full of ideals and desire to help motorists find somewhere to park, but gradually become brassed off and resort to taking it out on the very people they are supposed to be serving.
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<< Who in >> their right mind would apply for a job as a traffic >> warden - even less as a parking attendant. Perhaps someone who is unemployed and has been unable to get another job in their preferred field? If I was in that situation I would take anything, even if only as a stop-gap, until I found something better paid.
Quad erat demonstandum.
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L'Escargot said: "I've never seen any evidence that all traffic wardens are inherently evil. My theory is that if I never park illegally then they will leave me alone. It's worked so far, and I've no reason to think that they won't continue to leave me alone in the future."
A few years ago, I parked up in Coventry and wandered away to find a shop to get some change for the meter. I was away about five minutes. When I got back, a warden was waiting by the car. He said that he always waited a few minutes.
A couple of months ago, I stopped outside Southampton Library, only to realise I hadn't got any change. There was a Traffic Enforcer there and I told him my situation, namely that I would have to pop into the library first. "I'll have to ticket you if you leave your car".
That encapsulates the difference between the public service ethic and the revenue-at-all-costs ethic it's been replaced with.
V
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And I missed my point. While,legalistically speaking, I was in the wrong in both cases, a grounding in reality helps to make the world go round.
V
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Vin - ever thought of having a small tin of change in your car? Saves the problem of needing change and arguments with the wardens! A small travel sweet tin with about a fivers worth of silver in it does the trick for me.
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I'm sorry.. but "time spent in reconnaisance is seldom wasted" as a former FD used to say. And if you have to pay and park, not carrying change.. is asking to be ticketed.
I carry change in a small purse. But as a backup I always carry a few selected coins in a flap in my wallet. (for emergency use and replace at once when used).
madf
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You're absolutely right Madf. I bet you have a tidy house and get to work on time don't you? : )
Much as I try to keep money in the car and be sensible etc. it never lasts.
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I am on the side of the wardens, even met two reasonable ones in Nottingham on Saturday, three out of four machines not working and the fourth playing up - warden advised me that legally I was liable for fine if i did not have a ticket even if the machine would not give me one, but then advised that they would not since they knew the machines were not working.
Have similar experiences in the City!
Approch them politely and they will be polite!
If you don't park illegally you don't get tickets!
If you don't speed you don't get tickets!
Don't blame the official when he catches YOU breaking the rules society sets.
And yes I carry a bag of change in the car!
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And I missed my point. While,legalistically speaking, I was in the wrong in both cases, a grounding in reality helps to make the world go round. V
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Quite so and knowing you you were going to park your car, why didn't you get change BEFORE you stopped?
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Just so Vin, but the wardens don't set the policy, just execute it.
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What are you banging on about???
It's only a FISH!!!
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FNB: whales are mammals. People are sentimental about them because they are threatened. You can agree with the sentiment without going all the way with the sentimentality, innit?
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Fish, mammal, whatever...there are more important things in the world than getting weepy over a lost whale...
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What are you banging on about??? It's only a FISH!!!
And this is a motoring website. So please revert to discussions of a motoring related theme please.
DD. BR Moderator.
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"If you don't park illegally you don't get tickets!"
I'm arguing that in the real world, going for change with the intention of paying for parking is NOT illegal. The guy could have said he would check the other 20 vehicles in the area then come back and check I HAD returned with a ticket. No, no such flexibility seemed to be on hit mind.
And for those of you who are perfect and have change...well, what I'm saying is the one time you forget the change or it runs out, what are you meant to do? My genuine alternative in the situation above was to go home. There is NOWHERE to park in the area that isn't pay and display, so how was I meant to get change? What should I have done? The only possible resolution is to go home and get change, when there is a library 50 yards away where they are happy to give change.
I was polite to the Traffic Enforcer; I always am. However, a total lack of flexibility may result in other people being less than polite to them.
V
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I was polite to the Traffic Enforcer; I always am. However, a total lack of flexibility may result in other people being less than polite to them. V
As we all know, it does. But annoying though this can be (they peer round the corner until you get to the shop for change - I never have any either, keep reminding myself to keep some in the car but always forget, anyway I'd only lose it or embezzle it for a sausage roll or something - and then nip over and have written the thing out before you can reach them) there's very little point in arguing with these people, and bawling is undignified. You then have to go through a rigmarole of writing to the council and arguing and so forth, also very annoying. Perhaps a bit of lobbying in local council elections could achieve something?
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I've had tickets when parked and doing my job in the past.
These were usually emergencies too.
I used to be a computer software engineer, and tens or hundreds of users were unable to work (or even worse sometimes), and the business was sometimes unable to function till the problem was cured.
It never made the headlines...
(I do recall driving off once as a warden was writing my ticket. For days afterwards I felt like a real criminal, thinking that every police car would have me on the Most Wanted list...)
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And for those of you who are perfect and have change...well, what I'm saying is the one time you forget the change or it runs out, what are you meant to do?
I know I am driving into central London tomorrow afternoon so have ALREADY made sure I have at least £15 in pound coins in case I end up parked on a meter instead of in an NCP.
>>However, a total lack of flexibility may result in other people being less than polite to them.
They do not set the rules, only enforce them.
I will not give them a chance to give me a ticket!
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