Our thoughts and condolences the the families involved in the tragic events in North Wales yesterday, but surely 12 cyclists riding on an icy and busy main road is asking for trouble?
Around my area cycle clubs regulary hold races on busy roads at peak times totally oblivious to the dangers.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/4593380.stm
|
|
One has to sympathise with the car driver too, said to have been 'traumatized' not surprisingly. Question is though, should everyone change their plans just because the weather's inclement? This was an accident: an incident in which all involved were seriously out of luck. Surely one shouldn't blame the victims.
|
|
|
but surely 12 cyclists riding on >> an icy and busy main road is asking for trouble?
Er, they've got every right to be on the road, haven't they?
|
>> but surely 12 cyclists riding on >> an icy and busy main road is asking for trouble? Er, they've got every right to be on the road, haven't they?
Er, no one said they didn't. Being in the right won't stop you getting mown down no matter how high your horse is.
|
|
|
This is only a few miles from me, I know this road very well. The word i've heard on the grapevine today is as has been reported - a pure accident, driver not at fault. Injuries horrific. There but for the grace of God...
--
let me be the last to let you down....
|
It is a simple matter of fact, I'm afraid to say, of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.......
.......In 1959 I was on a County all night rally, navigating for a friend and we crossed a main road without stopping at the 'STOP - main road ahead' sign (obscured by summer foliage).
It was 3am (in 1959 don't forget) and we were hit side-on by a Humber Hawk. I survived. My friend, the driver, died on the way to Maidstone General Hspital. Of course no seat belts were available in those days...........Oh dear.
|
|
|
|
>> but surely 12 cyclists riding on >> an icy and busy main road is asking for trouble? Er, they've got every right to be on the road, haven't they?
I was expecting this reply. Well yes they have but in hindsight safety should have been a consideration in this case. Whatever happens a collision between a car and a pushbike you know who's coming off worst. All i'm saying is ice, busy main roads and a lot of cyclists in one large group just do not mix.
|
|
|
|
Stuart, I'm wary of saying much on this subject, because there is to be an investigation and I guess there might possibly be charges arising ... but I don't like the idea that roads should become no-go areas for cylists.
A lot of caution is needed when cycling on main roads, but having covered many miles that way myself, I would resent any implication that cyclists shouldn't go there. The roads are not constructed exclusively for cars, and there is an onus on all road-users not to endanger more vulnerable road-users.
Personally, I usually find main roads safer on a bicycle than many of the back routes -- there is usually mch better visibility, and there is a better chance of having a hard shoulder or something to escape into in case of trouble.
But whatever caused the accident, my thoughts like yours are with the families of those involved, especially the poor man who saw his son killed.
|
Stuart, I'm wary of saying much on this subject, because there is to be an investigation and I guess there might possibly be charges arising ... but I don't like the idea that roads should become no-go areas for cylists.
Yes I imagine some discussion on a car forum would be the make or break factor in a case of this nature.
A lot of caution is needed when cycling on main roads, but having covered many miles that way myself, I would resent any implication that cyclists shouldn't go there. The roads are not constructed exclusively for cars, and there is an onus on all road-users not to endanger more vulnerable road-users.
ac·ci·dent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-dnt, -dnt)
n.
An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm: car accidents on icy roads.
An unforeseen incident: A series of happy accidents led to his promotion.
Lack of intention; chance: ran into an old friend by accident.
But whatever caused the accident, my thoughts like yours are >> with the families of those involved, especially the poor man >> who saw his son killed.
Same here, poor bloke.
|
|
|
NW,
Respectfully, you've missed the point. Stuart isn't saying the cyclists shouldn't have been on the road. He's saying they shouldn't have been on the road because it was icy. Of course, whether they should or shouldn't have is not for me to say.
I will say this however.
There's a road near me which I occasionally use on the way home but on the icy days, I've avoided. Why? Because it's deadly no matter how skilled the driver. It's badly cambered, and ice forms in the most unlikely of places so that's why I avoid it.
I too share your sympathies with the families of all those involved including the driver who has to bear on his conscience, the deaths of those cyclists.
|
Stuart isn't saying the cyclists shouldn'thave been on the road. He's saying they shouldn't have been on the road because it was icy.
Exactly the point i'm trying to make Adam.
|
I used to cycle miles as a kid in winter or summer. In Northern Scotland. In England I would never in winter: too many cars/lorries/bad conditions and I hate ice even more on a bike than in a car.
Bikes are dangerous on ice. Bikes and cars on ice? I was nearly killed sliding sideways under a car on ice... never again. Madf's law of self preservation "never take risks when the conditions are such you depend on others to be experts to avoid killing you"
madf
|
"never take risks when the conditions are such you depend on >> others to be experts to avoid killing you"
So, so true whatever the situation.
|
|
|
|
If weather conditions were icy, I'd think very hard about heading out on a road bike bearing in mind the the tiny rolling resistance of the wheels.
However, I've been out on a mountain bike heading downhill at night, come to a roundabout, gently squeezed on the brakes at the roundabout at the bottom and slid straight across after locking both wheels.
Ice can be very difficult to predict for either party and to all intents and causes it looks to be a tragic accident, and I would be happy for this thread to quietly fade away.
Discussing whether it was right or wrong to head out on that particular morning is not going to change anything.
|
|
|
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I'm sure that had they realised how dangerous the conditions were, they would have turned back. There had apparently been a couple of cars lose control at that spot just previous to the accident happening. But the cyclists weren't to know that were they? NW mentioned about his preferred cycling road; the accident road is a main road with good visibility and mostly straight.
I've also heard mention that this road is an accident blackspot. True. But not because of weather conditions. Mainly straight road, good visibility but not particularly wide. Bordered either side by ditches. Plenty of overtakes with mis read speed of oncoming vehicles, leading to either head-ons or into ditch.
This was a chance in a million. Unfortunately in car vs bike, car wins.
--
let me be the last to let you down....
|
|
|
|
NW, Respectfully, you've missed the point. Stuart isn't saying the cyclists shouldn't have been on the road. He's saying they shouldn't have been on the road because it was icy.
And yet it was the car that crossed into oncoming traffic. Maybe cars shouldn't be allowed out on icy roads, since they are so dangerous to other road users when they are out of control.
|
The car driver lived. Cyclists are vunerable.
Enough anyway. I, as I'm sure everyone else too has no desire for this to turn into an anti cyclist thread especially on so sensitive a topic.
|
I'm sure that the whole Backroom agrees that this was a tragic accident and our thoughts go out to all involved, directly or indirectly.
I don't believe further discussion is appropriate at this stage so have locked the thread.
|
Four lives snuffed out and does anybody feel after reading this report that the risk of it happening again has been reduced, either in the area it happened or elsewhere?
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/6246140.stm
|
|
There are still Independent Police Complaints Commission enquires still going on in relation to this. It is totally valid to discuss issues that arise here but be careful about what you say, and also consider the sensibilities of relatives who may be either be BRs or connected to members.
|
I said at the time that it seemed astonishing that no action, in direct relation to the crash, was taken against the driver - and the Coroner agrees.
In court on his baldy tyres charges, the Police seemed to go out of their way to support him - very strange.
{seeing as Bill Payer has brought the previous thread up, I think its appropriate to link it - PU }
|
|
|
|
|
|
