My MiL has been taken ill and as a result both my wife and SiL may travel (fly) from London to Inverness quite frequently in the next 5/6 months. Rather than keep renting cars for 3-4 days, several times a month, my wife & SiL suggested (read decided) to keep the Omega up at the MiL's for use as the family "pool" car.
My main question is how best to sort out the insurance/RAC stuff etc.
Obviously the car will now be kept at a different address and there will be at least 1 new driver (SiL).
Should I ask her to include the Omega on her insurance or should I include her on our insurance?
What changes should I notify to my insurers other than new address?
TIA,
Chad.
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Ring up your insurer, tell them exactly what you wrote here. It will be simpler to do it on the existing insurance.
However, they will want to know who is the main user, and they're not going to like any young drivers.
If you get an answer you like, then well done. If you do not, then come back here and we'll go through the other alternatives.
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Will do, any new drivers will be >40 so hopefully won't get stung on the insurance.
Thanks for the speedy response.
Chad.
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worth shopping around for prices for the inverness area or at least asking for a reduction as insurance should be less for this area,you wont get it if you dont ask.
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5-6 months?
Well then assuming the policy is for a year, it won't be in the alternative location for more than 50% of the time - so why change it? You wouldn't be deviating from what you'd originally specified in the policy.
My old man introduced me to this logic when I took a car to university in my 3rd year.
I said: "Shouldn't I notify the insurers of the change of address?"
He said: "Why? It'll spend 5 months at university and 7 months at home. Therefore the place it is usually kept is at home."
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Your old man obviously didn't appreciate the potential difficulties caused by non disclosure of a material factor or material change in risk.
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But was he not answering the insurer's question of "Where is the car usually kept?" correctly.
I know it's using the letter of the rule to your advantage, and an insurer might consider it 'sharp practice' on the part of a customer, but do they actually break any rules?
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Graham,
It doesn't matter if he was answering the question correctly. It doesn't even matter whether he was asked the question at all.
He has a duty to volunteer all material points and if in doubt as to whether or not it is material, then to volunteer it anyway and allow the insurer to decide.
"Sharp practice" as you call it is a failure in his duty and suffucient grounds for either a claim to be denied or the cost of that claim recoved from him.
This duty is an absolute catch all. I have heard people say "phew, they didn't ask me if I had ........ so I got away with it".
Tough. No they didn't get away with it. The insureres don't have to ask, the duty is yours to volunteer the information.
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I find being scrupulously honest at decleration time saves a lot of aggro later on.
To use your example re 5 months in one place and 7 months in another. Tell insurer, more than likely it is not a problem and you go away with a reference/name and no worries.
Don't tell them, have worries about whether it is insured properly or not and potentially allow insurers to take a hard line with you.
Finally, remember they have solicitors on retainer and can afford to throw it over to them to argue the toss. Have you got the time, money or inclination to get involved with all this aggro for the sake of one call? Also, the Uni area might be cheaper!!
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Fair enough Mark, you know more about insurance than I do and it's clear that you want to argue the insurer's case. I want to argue the insuree's case, but I concede the point.
But of course, for the consequences you describe (refusing claim, recovering costs of claim) to come about, the insurer would have to become enlightend as to this 'material point'. And I really don't see how they would.
I have no moral issues with using 'sharp practice' when dealing with the automotive or insurance industries, as they seem perfectly happy to use it on me.
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Don't be silly, I don't "want" to argue anybody's point. However, I find the "ostrich head in the sand" approach naive and unproductive.
The fact is that you have a duty, acknowledge it or not as you wish. That will not change the law or the contract.
the insurer would have to become enlightend as to this 'material point'. And I really don't see how they would.
To an extent a valid point. However, they're pretty good at it and you should never underestimate either our own ability to drop ourselves in it, or the willingness of those around to do it for us. Bear in mind that the insurer, or at least the assessor, knows exxactly what he's looking for.
All in all, rather too much risk for very little benefit for my taste.
I have little interest in your "moral issues" or even those of the insurer. I am merely pointing out the issues around your practices.
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Fair enough Mark, you play it your way and I'll play it mine.
To cite an example though:
When I started my 1st year at Uni, I took the family's 1987 Cavalier with me. Insured in my dad's name, TPF&T - insurance company (red phone) not notified that it had gone there.
It was stolen from the Uni cark park and burnt out by joyriders. The insurers didn't quibble over paying my old man (not much to quibble over, £500!) and they didn't even say "What was it doing in a Uni car park, the policy says you keep it at home?" And of course even if they had, there are many plausible explanations that they wouldn't be able to disprove.
My point is this. I pay a lot of money for insurance cover to use my car on the UK public road network. In my opinion, this entitles me use any part of the road network, at any time, without reason or explanation. I'm not keen on any suggestion that I need to get the green light from my insurance company (which involves calling a 'national rate' number and navigating an automated menu) before I do anything other than commute and go to the supermarket. I am confident that in temporarily keeping my car somewhere other than the registered address (so long as it really is temporary) I am remaining within the terms of my cover.
What about someone who lives in a low risk postcode in Kent, but most Friday and Saturday nights their car is parked outside their partner's house in a rough part of south London? Should they tell their insurer?
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And of course that last response wasn't dismissive or intended to make me look foolish, was it?
But of course, as a moderator, you'll just censor me now as you have done previously when I've spoken out against something you've said.
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£500 claim probably not worth investigating. Run down a bus queue and your life will be turned inside out like the Selby train crash guy. They will find out everything about you.
Remember at quote stage they want your money and tend to be more flexible. At paying out stage they already have your cash, so they can afford to take a hard line to try and retain it.
I don't want the thread pulled, so all I would politely say is that your reasoning and attitude towards disclosure is flawed and you stand a reasonably high risk of having a claim refused at some point in the future if you are withholding information on your own (flawed) judgement.
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Both Mark and Retro,
As I said before, I concede the point. You should tell your insurer if the car is to be based in Scotland for the next 6 months. Quite possibly going to a lower risk area in any case.
In the case of my example, moving the 'usually kept' address from NP8 to ST5 almost certainly would have increased the premium. So he chose not to, his choice. His judgement was tested through a claim for theft and destruction, and it turned out we were ok with what we'd done.
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Graham
You were fortunate that your claim was handled properly.
As Mark and RR have said. Sound advice from them would be to disclose everything and let the insurers decide what to quote.
Adopting the attitiude that sharp practices are OK with insurers could leave you uninsured, and hence open to personal suits from third parties. Having had sight of the costs involved in an accident I was involved in, that is a situation I would not like to be in! At best I would have had to re mortgage the house, at worst I may have had to sell it!
Being homeless because I attempted "sharp practices" on an insurance comapny to save about £50 would not sit comfortably with me.
So, Let's all just accept the good advice above and discose everything that we feel is relevent. EG the insurers ask if I have had any claims in the last 3 years I say "on this policy or on any of the three I have?" They will then tell me what they need to know.
H
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In connection with the points made by Hugo, and apologies to Chad for a slight diversion....
It is not uncommon when taking out insurance to be asked 'have you been convicted of a criminal offence' - 'any' and 'ever' being expressed or implied.
Is a respondent entitled to withold any of a 'spent' nature?
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In the absense of any decisive information from Mark or RR.....
I would ask the insurer whether spent convictions are notifyable.
H
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You have to disclose any conviction that is not spent under the rehabilitation of offenders act.
i.e. Drink Drive for 11 years. Be careful with bans as a long ban might mean that the conviction is spent, but the ban is within the period that the insurer wants to know about. Also with totting up bans, make sure the person you are speaking to knows what they are talking about as you may be over quoted as some insurers just take the TT code, where I have known some insurance employees to adopt a belt and braces approach and tap in all the convictions and the TT code. Whether this is correct depends on the insurers underwriting. If in doubt check.
This DVLA link gives you most of the information you need to know.
www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/endorsem.htm#1.%20Endorsem...e
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