"His final comment: "I now realise why you pay that much extra for VW build quality - worth every penny.""
"After 10 years seeing which cars come of best in all types of accidents and what the occupants look like, I in my own pesonal choice would go for VW/Audi every time and I would never buy any other make no matter what the cost."
Yep... seconded and thirded by someone who is only here simply *because* I drive a VW.
(That said...I'm seriously looking at the Megan for my next car, with it's 5* safety rating!)
|
Honda ownersip experience:
Recently I complained that the aircon was no longer blowing cold - they fixed it gratis.
The next oil change - they did that for nothing as well - because of the 'trouble' I'd had previously.
I'm impressed - I know several people with VW's who need treatment for shock when they get the bill for the car's service.
Get a Skoda - it's a VW underneath, but without the poor service (and ... shall I say it - more reliable mechanically!).
|
My experience: VW New Beetle 1.6 / Toyota Corolla 1.4
Both about 3 years old now from new:
Faults:
VW Beetle
Lid on flip-up bin thing doesn't go down
Slightly sticky passenger door catch
Toyota Corolla
Gearbox bearings fail after 3 years, destroying 5th gear and other parts - cost to fix over £1100
Water pump now leaking and will need replacing
hmmm ! Guess which make I will replace the Toyota with !
In terms of VW's servicing, I agree entirely - but then I have had equally bad experiences with Toyota dealers, too.
My advice for VW owners - find your local, INDEPENDENTLY OWNED Skoda garage, and get it done there !
|
|
|
|
A Mercedes is equally as well equipped in the event of a serious accident - unfortunately my budget doesn't stretch that far..:-)
I've a close friend who has a new S-Class every two years (currently the latest LWB five-litre) and we've both tagged the Bora a mini-Mercedes because of its "over-engineering" as termed above.
Although I haven't used my local VW dealer for any work (I go to National for oil and filter changes etc), I've always found them very willing to offer help and advice over the phone.
One instance was when I checked out a recall for Golf/Bora models soon after I acquired the car last year. Although my Bora is on its second registration as the original owner had a cherished number, the dealership quickly confirmed that mine was not involved in the recall from its computer database.
|
Hi,
I agree that VW and Audi are built with strength in mind but note that for the last couple of years Renault have been leading the way with safety with most of the cars getting a 5 star rating. VW Passat, Golf,Polo only 4 stars although the Toureg has 5 star rating.
Its just a shame the french do not lead the way in reliability yet.
Cheers
Jlo
|
Agreed, but given the choice between a Golf/Bora and a Megane, I know which one will still be running around in 15-20 years from now.
I also know which one I'd prefer to be in if I was going to be unfortunate enough to have a serious accident...:-)
I also know which one will be worth far more at the time I decided to replace it.
|
|
Also know which one you will pay far too much for....
|
>>Also know which one you will pay far too much for....
Yet another who assumes something...:-)
My Bora, a November 1999 registered model with the 2000 year specification, had 46,200 miles on the clock when I bought it about 13-14 months ago; the service history book was stamped by a Glasgow VW dealership after each 10,000 mile (approximate) minor or major service.
It had been used by its Scottish owner on a near hour long journey each way to and from his place of work in the city.
I paid a midge more than £6,000 for it with the Jetta TX being taken in part exchange.
God willing, the Bora will serve me well for many years to come.
|
|
|
|
...for the last couple of years Renault have been leading the way with safety with most of the cars getting a 5 star rating.
Did you see the piece in the Sun Times about Euro NCAP ratings. They can be misleading; an extra star can be gained for having a seatbelt-not-on warning buzzer, for example. This 'safety feature' contributes nothing to your chances of surviving an accident, yet might be the only difference between it and a lesser scoring vehicle.
|
>>They can be misleading; an extra star can be gained for having >>a seatbelt-not-on warning buzzer, for example. This 'safety >>feature' contributes nothing to your chances of surviving an >>accident, yet might be the only difference between it and a >>lesser scoring vehicle.
A seatbelt buzzer does improve safety, it reminds you if you don't have it on. Crash without a seatbelt on and there is a massive difference in the chances of surviving.
As for VW build quailty, it existed years ago but its doesn't any more. I can see VW sales dropping in the UK soon just like they have in the US.
|
you have nothing to worry about.
as some of you know, i drive a mark 2 hyundai accent.
the car struggles to get into 2 star rating.
Pray for me and my occupants.
On the other hand - beats VW for reliability hands down. you show me a 3 year old golf thats done 72k trouble free.
|
I refuse to buy a car based on how well it crashes. Might as well buy a boat based on how well it sinks or a house on how well it burns down. 8-)
|
I refuse to buy a car based on how well it crashes. Might as well buy a boat based on how well it sinks or a house on how well it burns down. 8-)
oranges and apples.
|
|
|
A foolish statement.
All of us believe we will never have an accident. If we are unfortunate enough to do so it is wise to be in a vehicle that will provide maximum protection for the occupants.
That comes from good design and build quality.
|
|
|
|
On the other hand - beats VW for reliability hands down. you show me a 3 year old golf thats done 72k trouble free.
I had a Mk IV golf that did 140,000 miles over 4 years until it blew a gasket, and that was down to me ignoring what I thought was a faulty collant warning indicator, and doing a speed I shouldn't have been doing!
|
As I've already stated, my 13-year-old Jetta 1.6TX was superbly reliable as was the case with my previous 1.3 version - I bought the 1.3 with 66,500 miles on the clock and the TX with 52,000.
The mileage didn't worry me as both had full service histories and came from reputable garages.
|
I would agree that VWs of old were far superior, I remember running a 1983 Y Reg Polo Formel E (in that lovely burnt orangy colour) for about 5 years and by that time there wasn't a Y reg Fiesta or Metro or Nova to be seen , and the ones that were were held together by rust.
However, I believe that most makes of car have taken big leaps forward now in terms of reliability and build quality. For instance, I currently run a 97 Saxo which has just passed 67000 miles and there is not a hint of rust on it. Anywhere, not even under an arch or even on some of the exposed paint which has been scratched off.
I don't doubt VW make good cars but I do believe that a lot of their customers have been brainwashed into thinking that they are better than everything else. Examples like, "I was able to phone my dealer and he could tell me that my car was not subject to a recall" well, sorry, but that should not be an example of great service!!
I think that VWs are far overpriced for what they are, I agree that safety is a major issue but if that was the only issue in choosing a car, we would all be driving about in 5* NCAP cars. (and these wouldn't be VWs) But we are not, cos we can't all afford them and we sometimes want to sacrifice safety for luxury or practicality.
|
Examples like, "I was able to phone my dealer and he could tell me that my car was not subject to a recall" well, sorry, but that should not be an example of great service!!
You have clearly completely missed the point.
|
|
So your point was? Dealers are helpful?
|
BobbyG is right. that is the minimum any (even an Alfa dealer) should be able to do. An example
I am suddenly traveling a lot of miles at short notice. The car is suddenly due for a service. On Wednesday I phone up a Renault dealer (one I try and avoid) Need the car serviced, can you fit it in this Friday, yes ok we can do that, whats the reg no?.
Friday comes, they have all the paperwork ready, it has on it the chasis no, a recall notice for work to be done, all the part no's of stuff to be changed (with a note from stores saying its ordered and due in on time).
Would you say thats good service or the minimum you would expect?
I suggest the later. They didnt wash the car, the paper mats, plastic seat and steering wheel cover still left in place, I had to wander round the back and extracate the car from the workshop car park, not delivered to the front for me. All those extra items indicate a good dealer, one who cares about its customers.
|
Do you really judge the place you take your car to be serviced by the quality of the car washing? As well judge the house you buy by the cleanliness of its windows...
Stuartli. You say you cannot afford a Mercedes. You then take offence at the implication that you will pay too much for a VW, compared to a Megane. Then in apples & pears fashion you suddenly pick on an elderly VW. May I respectfully suggest that in fact you could afford to buy 20 Mercedes for what you paid for that VW! Provided you stick to the W123, which is possibly the best engineered car the world has ever seen.......... :-p
Spot on about the Megane though. It's 'automatic switch on the headlights when it is dark' option isn't going to be working 5 years hence, let alone 15!
|
"Do you really judge the place you take your car to be serviced by the quality of the car washing?"
Mappy my darwinian friend......;)
Its an indication of customer care. You can almost certainly be sure that if they can be bothered to wash your car, they can be bothered to change the pollen filter.
The reason I dont use that garage normally is that after a service on the Scenic I was presented with the dilema of a service check sheet with "wiper condition" box checked, yet a 4 inch strip of wiper rubber hanging off and torn.
I presented my dilema to the service manager to be greeted with the ripost "you didnt report that when you booked the car in" adding with a disarming smile "and we always ask if there is anything else to be done"
"sir"
|
"Do you really judge the place you take your car to be serviced by the quality of the car washing?"
Yes. VW dealer in Stoke would give car a thorough cleaning. Dealer in Bolton & Stockport doesn't, even when doing same servicing. If the dealer in Stoke hadn't decided to sell Audi instead I would still do a round trip from manchester to get it serviced there as I felt their level of customer service was fantastic.
|
In a way, yes.
Just think how many would complain in this forum if the reverse of such an experience (and more since) had been the case.
Initial impressions are always meaningful and this was one instance.
It's also got to be remembered that for every one person who complains about a product, customer care or after sales service, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, who never think to offer praise where it is due.
That leads to an imbalance which can offer prove unfair.
|
who never think to offer praise where it is due. That leads to an imbalance which can offer prove unfair.
>>
My dealer always collects my car, has never charged me more than he said he would, always has access to the cars workshop history (of which nothing is more than normal servicing), delivers my car back to me on time, valeted and cleaned. On the one occasion they couldn't return my car to me they delivered a courtesy car.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend my dealer and the cars they sell.
JaB
|
|
|
>>it existed years ago but its doesn't any more
Stuff and nonsense.
|
>>it existed years ago but its doesn't any more Stuff and nonsense.
Oooh, quick everyone! Agree with everything Stuart says or we will get the full force of his reasoned and well presented arguments.
Or not, as the case may be.
Stuart, would you like us all to agree with you? It would make the mods job a whole lot easier, then we could all get some work done.
No Dosh
Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
|
Oooh, quick everyone! Agree with everything Stuart says or we will get the full force of his reasoned and well presented arguments.
>>
Just to be picky here - is this the same reasoned argument as the first post of this thread? Looked just like a stated opinion to me.
I'll get banned soon ;-)
As this is the VW version of the Renault knocking thread, I'll chip in with my experience of older VWs was much better compared to the competition, but the quality of their parts seems lower and I don't think there's as much to separate VW from others manufacturers. To be honest, it's probably Audi that the group want to raise, leaving VW without much attention.
Their dealer servicing is usually ok, but never excellent.
Gareth
|
|
|
I don't mind in the slightest anyone disagreeing (or agreeing as the case may be) with me - the objection is to what, to me at least, are a number of unsubstantiated/unreasonable comments or observations.
For instance, because one person complains bitterly about having problems with a particular make of car or the franchised dealership that's supposed to look after it, doesn't mean that they should automatically assume it's widespread.
However, on the subject of whether I would like you all to agree with me, the answer is a definite "No!"
If this was the case life would get pretty boring...:-)
Just surprised at how many cages have been opened...:-))
|
Well you will keep rattling them.....
I personally think VW have gone downhill since their first generation of liquid cooled passenger cars, but then I drive an Alfa, so what do I know?
|
|
The sound of an Alfa engine in full song, especially the V6, is one of the joys of life.
|
|
But I have the 5 cylinder diesel. Around these parts it is known as the italian tractor, much to my chagrin.
|
|
>>of his reasoned and well presented arguments.
From a motoring journalist? (Anything else I say may be libellous & therefore deleted, so I shalln't...)
|
Ah, but you didn't say it was diesel powered...:-)
Mapmaker
You obviously hadn't picked up on the sarcasm..:-)
|
|
Got to go and sort out a friend's computer system, so I'll be paying a return visit later in the day.....
|
Right, while he's gone I'll hide the thread.....
;o)
No Dosh
Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
|
Right, while he's gone I'll hide the thread..... ;o)
But not in the back of your tractor ND he will hear it from miles away
|
>> Right, while he's gone I'll hide the thread..... But not in the back of your tractor ND he will hear it from miles away
But the tractor makes such a soothingly gorgeous sound that he couldn't possibly suspect that it was a tractor ...
|
|
No, I think the message is that we're expected to behave ourselves until he's back.
|
No, I think the message is that we're expected to behave ourselves until he's back.
ah, the triumph of hope over experience!
|
|
I've changed the title of the thread. He'll never find it now.
|
Boys! Boys!
Off to the headmasters study.. wait outside until he calls for you!
And none of auto express down the back of your pants stuff either!
;)
Jab
|
|
Some might like that, of course....
|
Some might like that, of course....
It all sounds fine to me. We all misbehave, but the boys get the rap :)
|
Be careful whom you offend:
"Not only safe to assume, it's a fact that the DVLA follows up tip-offs about untaxed vehicles, including those off-road which should have SORN status.
Just use the telephone number, or even easier, the e-mail link provided above. I can assure you it works, as my next door neighbour would confirm if he knew the reason behind the out of the blue need to tax, insure and MOT his van for the first time for some time...:-)"
Personally, I think VWs are just smashing, and even more brilliant than they have ever been!!!
|
Be careful whom you offend:
[snip]Personally, I think VWs are just smashing, and even more brilliant than they have ever been!!!
Goodness me, is that what it takes to get anyone to praise a VW these days?
|
|
Does anyone remember Percy Sugden from Coronation Street? What happened to him? He had a VW, didn't he?
|
>> Some might like that, of course.... It all sounds fine to me. We all misbehave, but the boys get the rap :)
Right then!
if you're gonna be lippy, you'd best get off down there as well!
mind you, maybe you'd better wait until the boys are finished....
JaB
|
Right then! if you're gonna be lippy, you'd best get off down there as well! mind you, maybe you'd better wait until the boys are finished....
No rush, I think. It sounds like they might be some time!
|
Me: "I refuse to buy a car based on how well it crashes. Might as well buy a boat based on how well it sinks or a house on how well it burns down. >>>> 8-) <<<< LOOK AT THIS!!!"
Stuartli: " A foolish statement."
At which point I figure either Stuart doesn't understand PC smileys or sarcasm, but then he follows up with:
"You obviously hadn't picked up on the sarcasm..:-)"
It couldn't have worked out any better if I had planned it myself.
|
It isn't friday and this isn't Motoring.
Have fun while you can; I shall get to this thread later.
|
I'll lock it now. We can reopen it tomorrow.
|
Mark, No Dosh,
Don't be spoilsports!!
And please don't ban me!!
And I wanted to do was make the well-reasoned point that I don't like Volkswagens because of their name and then the daft model names - Golf, Polo, Derby - what's that all about - have they ever been to Derby? Scirocco, Bora ? Load of hot air
However, I do like the sound of Alfa Romeo (sort of romantic especially when you have an Alfa Romeo Guilietta) and TOYotas always remind me of Tonka toys which I loved. Don't care what the dealers are like.
|
Ah, but the thread reopens tomorrow......
ND
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
