What is it about these that causes some drivers (mainly but not exclusively of the female gender in my experience) so much trouble ?
Virtually every time I approach one, somebody at one of the junctions will dilly dally and faff about for ages holding everyone else up and then, having analysed the situation to the nth degree, suddenly just pull out at the worst possible time straight in front of a bus or something!
I witnessed an incident just like this again last night when a car several places in front of me was trying to join the A21 from a side road. Umpteen safe opportunities to do so were squandered one after the other until, just at the point when conditions for the manoeuvre were at their very worst, the silly woman just pulled out !!
The mind boggles - what is so complicated about negotiating mini-roundabouts ?
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They've put some largely un-necessary ones in at junctions near me, they've off-set them from the line of the main road as well, to slow people down, unfortunately it has little effect, as everyone (myself included) just continue in a straight line and end up driving over the top of them, or low lying cars drive around them anti-clockwise (traffic permitting) as it is easier than going round them in the proper direction.
An interesting side (safety reducing) effect that I've seen is that it makes people on the side road think they have a god-given right to pull out at 30 mph and not slow down just 'cos they have right of way over traffic coming along the main road from the left, yes technically they do, but it might be a nice idea to slow down for the junction first! Rather than just pulling out in front of traffic doing 30mph.
Despite that mini-rant, I'm actually not too bothered by them and appreciate that we have them instead of speed bumps which I hate, overall, I don't think mini-roundabouts are too bad, just many drivers can't handle them. The classic one is when three cars all pull up at the same time and all stop for each other, when this happens I try to take the inititive and pull out so that everyone can continue, I actually have sat before whilst someone who has right of way over me wouldn't budge and looked at me as though I was the daft one! :-)
Blue
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Just who HAS priority entering a mini-roundabout? On a full sized one, obviously a car can be ON the roundabout, so if you are waiting to join you let it pass. But with mini ones you frequently have no-one on the roundabout so everyone who is waiting has someone on their right. Result - no-one moves. Anyone got a recent Highway Code to look it up?
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"what is so complicated about negotiating mini-roundabouts ?"
The problem is that there is no official priority to anyone when four cars arrive at the same time. Happens all the time here and ends up relying on the old-fashioned courtesy 'rules' that applied before the roundabout was put there! They only work by causing confusion, IMHO, instead of relying on driver sense (although I accept that that is sometimes in short supply).
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The highway code states (I haven't looked it up but I'm fairly certain) that a mini-roundabout should be treated exactly the same as any other roudabout. Traffic joining the roudabout must give way to traffic already on it. Therefore if you arrive at a mini-roundabout and there are no cars on it, away you go. If other people want to fanny about and just sit there doing nothing, leave them to it - I'm not going to wait around for them.
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Totally agree with Robnorton. And I'm not going to drive round a splodge of paint on the road! The antics I see people getting up to when they're turning right, especially when there's no one else on the r-a-b just confirms my view that most of them are sheep.
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The Code says 'Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts - remember there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal'. Try reading the Code (with diagrams) about double mini-roundabouts (figure-8-abouts), where each is to be 'treated separately'!
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Mrsb nearly had an accident on a double mini-roundabout the other day. I think they're a long way from being safe: they're just too complicated.
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I'm not going to drive round a splodge of paint on the road!
The ones round my way are all raised up with a nice tire shredder kerbs around the painted bit. They're still the same size though.
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I don't have a problem with these in terms of priority - I just wait if in any doubt at all, but they do tick me off. The priority can be less than clear when three or four arrive at once as someone has pointed out.
On top of that my car hasn't got the worst turning circle but it's not good either. That makes it near impossible to get "round" some of them without going "over" it.
Sorry but if it's a choice between going over one or scraping a wheel trying to go round it - no contest.
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Yes, robnorton - all very well, but if each driver is as (admirably) decisive as you then there'll be 3 insurance claims in the offing as you all start off together and bang into each other. There needs to be some sort of priority system devised.
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Alan, there already is a priority system in place for roundabouts: traffic joining the roundabout must give way to traffic already on the roundabout.
If you all arrive at *exactly* the same moment, there's no need for everyone to drive into one another just because they can't decide who should go first.
You just do what you would do at a normal roundabout. If you move forward and the guy to your right then moves forward and it looks like he's going to hit you, apply the brakes.
Similarly, if you move forward and the guy to your left moves forward into your path, just stop. Let's face it, you're not going to be doing more than about 5 miles per hour..
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There's one I regularly use that is offset so that the right hand turn is in fact straight on. It is almost impossible actually to go round it if turning right. As the right hand exit is up a very steep hill and needs a run up, what happens is that if all is clear everyone just goes full speed straight over it in order to get up the hill, or if the roundabout is blocked they wait well back from the roundabout and then go when it is clear.
The roundabout is totally pointless, as circumstances force it to be treated exactly like an ordinary junction.
Is it in fact an offence to ignore the markings if the road is clear, or are they only optional, like diagonal hatching?
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If a tree falls in the woods and no-one's around to hear it, is it an offence - i mean, does it make a sound? ;)
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As the right hand exit is up a very steep hill and needs a run up, what happens is that if all is clear everyone just goes full speed straight over it in order to get up the hill, or if the roundabout is blocked they wait well back from the roundabout and then go when it is clear.
How many vehicles, save trucks, need a run up to get up a hill?
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How many vehicles, save trucks, need a run up to get up a hill?
Everything, on this hill. It is about 1 in 4. From rest at the bottom it means grinding up in first all the way. From 20 mph at the bottom it is possible in 2nd or third. Of course it is not impossible to get up without a run, just so much faster, less stressful, quieter, probably less polluting.
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The main problem I find with them is when you get a stream of traffic approaching from your right, it appears everyone approaches at 30 so you are a very brave chap if you try to get on the roundabout between the vehicles in the stream. We have one locally which allows traffic leaving an industrial estate priority over traffic on the main road, wonderful at 'knocking off' time, just one continuous stream of traffic pouring out of the estate bumper to bumper and a mile long tail back on the main road.
While we're on the subject, I was under the impression that it is actually an offence to drive over the white paint, perhaps someone can enlighten me, but on some of our mini-roundabouts you would have to have a pretty marvellous turning circle to get round them without going across the paint. Will the next use for cameras be to fine those encroaching on the white paint!!!
Cockle
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>>While we're on the subject, I was under the impression that it is actually an offence to drive over the white paint, perhaps someone can enlighten me, but on some of our mini-roundabouts you would have to have a pretty marvellous turning circle to get round them without going across the paint. Will the next use for cameras be to fine those encroaching on the white paint!!! Cockle
if your highway code is up to date, it will tell you that you should drive round it if your vehicle is capable of doing so, and not to do so is a criminal offence under the RTA 19XX
which still does not excuse the fact that many mini roundabouts are a beaurocrats theoretical answer to a drivers real problem !
I have to grow old - but I don't have to grow up
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I've been confused by the prioties so I checked the old high code. If I remember correctly it states to give way to traffic to your right, as opposed to traffic already on the roundabout, which for me did nought to clear up the confusion.
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Is the "Magic Roundabout" still there in Swindon or has someone had the sense to get rid of it?
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I thought the "Magic Roundabout" was in Hemel Hempstead until I did a quick Google search: www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm.
For what it's worth, my father, who learned to drive before roundabouts were invented and went through life without living near a mini roundabout, thought whoever was on one first had right of way. I suppose that ties in with giving way to whoever's already on it. The difference with mini roundabouts is that you can see all around them and there isn't room on them for many vehicles (says he stating the obvious).
My driving instructor (I learned only recently) taught me to give way to traffic coming from the right, even if it hasn't joined the roundabout yet. The same applied to drivers coming from the opposite direction signalling right.
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I guess that's the crux. When there is a car at each entrance, everybody has some one to their right.
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For what it's worth, my link didn't work because the full stop got included. Try www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm
There's a nice diagram of the Hemel Hempstead version at www.hemelweb.demon.co.uk/history.htm .
I'd say that isn't a roundabout but a series of mini roundabouts arranged in a circle.
IMHO mini roundabouts are the creation of Satan, an aberration, unnatural, etc. etc.
I think I might start to get nightmares about the mini roundabout stalemate. It's comparable to Douglas Adams' lemon-soaked napkins.
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Yes it is, and IMHO it actuallay works, just don't drive alongside a long lorry. The only problem with mini-roundabouts in Swindon are the offset ones where drivers drive straight across or anti-clockwise as this is effectively a straight line.
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The biggest problem I find with mini roundabouts is that no-one signals anymore.
Great if you're going straight on and so is the car approaching you.
It all goes horribly wrong when he turns across your front, then claims he was already on the roundabout.
Then you're in trouble. Were there independent witnesses? Who was really on the'bout first melud?
Awful bother in the County Court.
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They work fine if everybody slows down and signals - but then it's the same anywhere, nothing special about mini-roundabouts.
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Unbelievable! Are people really saying they can't work out what to do at mini roundabouts when more than one car approaches. You should all be made to have big keys sticking out the tops of your cars.
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jeds, sadly it appears so. Dumbed down Britain strikes again.
Though I do have sympathy with those who find drivers approaching the junction at 30 and clearly unable to slow down.
Looks like we need either the rule as in the Channel Isles at junctions and mini roundabouts of "Filter in turn" or what about the rule as in USA which applies in 4 way Stop junctions.
Basically you all must stop and then go in the order in which you arrive at the junction. Very rare two vehicles arrive exactly together.
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Not that rare...
In your opinion maybe not that rare, think we have to agree to disagree on that one.
IMO if the rule is in force that you go in turn, then drivers observe the detail and soon sort themselves out accordingly. The key is the requirement to stop as opposed to merely give way.
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Surely it's not a problem if *two* cars arrive together?
It's when three arrive at once and all give way (happens often) that there is confusion.
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