I have been asked to help ferry some old folk from their accomodation to a day-care centre and back maybe 2 or 3 times a week. For this I will get paid an hourly rate and some pence per mile, and suddenly I'm carrying passengers "for hire or reward". Fair enough, but my broker won't even talk to me about hire or reward, much less give me a quote. Google chucks about 7000 insurance companies back at me. Any ideas or recommendations to short circuit the inevitable long process of getting a quote that's a bit out of the ordinary?
H.
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First step is to ask someone else who is either providing this service, or perhaps was providing the service before you.
Secondly, it is going to be expensive. Do you have some arrangement where they will pay for your insurance ?
Lastly, the definitions of hire & reward are complex. I'll try and dig them out for you, but it won't be until tomorrow.
M.
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And if your hire and reward insurance doesent cover it, make sure you have public liability insurance in case one of the old dears trips on your dangling seat belt loops
And check out the steam cleaning thread for the seats to get rid of the "old folks" smell ;)
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Does it have to be 'hire or reward'? Can't it be 'contribution towards running costs' at whatever is the maximum rate calculated by the AA or someone?
You must be very public-spirited to be even contemplating it!
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I don't think it's "Hire and Reward" if you don't make any money out of it. Hire and Reward is running as a taxi, which it doesn't sound to me like you will be doing.
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I think the hourly rate payment makes it hire and reward. If it was just pence per mile (as per inland revenue guidelines) it wouldnt.
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Perhaps the service provider, i.e. outfit paying you, can point you in the right direction?
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It sounds like what you are recieving is a car allowance in persuit of your employers buisiness, which means that you should be ok if you specify buisiness use
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Hawkeye
Which part of the country are you in?
There are different sorts of hire and reward, it depends what you are doing. I use a broker in Worcester Park, South West London.
Please come back if it remains a problem.
Don drbe
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I can cast a little light here, as I work for a voluntary organisation and have delivered accredited training on issues surrounding the management of volunteers.
If you are being paid an hourly rate, you are not a volunteer, you are an employee. This means you must receive at least the minimum wage, as well as a host of employment rights such as paid annual leave etc. If this is not happening, it's not your fault, but the organisation asking you to do this should be made aware of the distinction. By asking you to "volunteer", and then paying you (or anyone) an hourly rate which is less than the minimum wage, they are leaving themselves open to legal action. Case law already exists on this issue which means that if sued, they will lose.
As a volunteer, you are however entitled to receive reasonable out-of-pocket expenses. Volunteers give of their time, skills and effort, not their money, so if you start your day with a theoretical tenner in your pocket, and all you do till the end of the day is voluntary work, you should still have that tenner in your pocket by the time you go home. It is considered reasonable to pay a volunteer's mileage at up to the Inland Revenue rate of 40p a mile, as anyone can receive this for up to 10000 miles per annum - once beyond this mileage, the "petrol money" becomes subject to deductions, while anything above that rate per mile could be construed as income. By the way, it is also considered reasonable to provide a subsistence allowance (say a couple of quid) if for example you volunteered all day and had to buy a lunch. None of these should affect anyone's entitlement to social security benefits, as you are being compensated for expenses incurred, not paid a wage.
If you are a volunteer, you can get business use on your car insurance which can sometimes entail a small rise in premiums (it once cost me an extra £5 for the year), or no rise at all. This is because there is a difference between being compensated for (a) the fuel costs and additional wear, tear & depreciation on your car as a result of volunteering, and (b) being compensated for your time, ie a wage, which then becomes "reward".
I'll happily answer any other questions you might have on all this.
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Hi - hope you still look at this site, as it is a while ago since you posted. My husband is unemployed and at age 58 he has still not had any luck with employment. He does "meals on wheels" as a volunteer and reported this to his insurance company who made no change to his policy. We live in semi sheltered accommodation and there are many people who use a taxi for shopping or visiting the hospital. Several times my husband has helped these people out. However with the cost of petrol he now would like to take these people to where they are going on a mileage basis. Meaning a round trip of say 8 miles (town centre and back) would cost £3.60 for petrol. Is that hire and reward?
Mega SNIPQUOTE!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 13/07/2008 at 17:00
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Thanks for all your considered and informative replies so far.
Looks as though I might be covered by the "philanthropic purposes" bit of my current policy. I have decided to try again with a different contact at my broker and sidestep the chap who said "hire or reward" like a broken record.
I'll let you know
H.
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You'll struggle with the hourly rate since that will be in excess of expenses. In the event of a serious incident your insurer will check.
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Hawkeye, just to clarify - if you only receive a mileage rate, you are not using your car for hire or reward, and this should be explained (in writing if necessary) to your insurer. If you get paid an hourly rate, you ARE using your car for hire or reward and you should declare this to any insurer you try to get cover from.
Can you clarify whether or not you are being asked to do this in a "voluntary" capacity, or if your hourly rate is at least the minimum wage?
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I am not a volunteer, I have been asked to this because the local Alzheimers Society are looking for a driver and because it seems like a helpful thing to do. The hourly rate is above the nat. min. wage and the mileage allowance is 40p a mile. I'm quite OK with the "hire or reward" thing but not happy that I seem to be lumped in with the taxi drivers who do it full-time for a living.
My broker has said "no way" again as if I was going to have tassels on the mirror, the special private hire dent pack applied to my car and a meter and air freshener fitted.
I am phoning up local brokers as I type to see what the costs are.
Next instalment follows shortly ...
H.
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More thougths on this
You are being "employed" by the society. You are running your own car on an allowance from the society. I presume the society do not charge the passengers?
Therefore I would think that you are not plying hire and reward, but need to insure for business use.
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Getting into deep water here. I am definitely not plying for hire which is what a taxi does, I think. To my understanding, that's hanging around at a taxi rank or, in the case of black cabs, cruising the streets looking for a fare.
Mark, can you help out with the definition you mentioned, please?
But I am getting more than expenses therefore I am using my car for "hire or reward". The rewards being a load of lip from the passengers and the possibility of wet seats, and an hourly rate.
H.
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The crux here is "are the passengers paying for the ride"
If they aint - its not hire and reward. Your expenses (i think you said 40p a mile?) are on the inland revenue guidline for motoring expanses (up to 10kmiles a year) and therefore not a reward.
You are employed, you get pay. The expenses are not profit (according to the IR), if the passengers dont pay where is the reward?
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Thankfully, someone better qualified than I at looking after folk with dementia has come along so I can walk away from this unexpected bag of worms.
Many thanks to all who gave their advice.
H.
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