In my view poor tyres should be outlawed.
It wouldn't stop people using them ......
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By which I meant that the sale of poor tyres should be banned. The ones I had were potentially fatal, think car going round corner with pedestrians/cyclists nearby.
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In my view poor tyres should be outlawed.
How would you define poor tyres.
How would you test them to ascertain the performance of each model.
I would wager that a top brand Goodyear, Michelin etc with 1.6 mm of tread has poorer wet performance than a nearly new Chinese ditchfinder with full tread.
And what about people who drive their cars with underinflated or damaged tyres, may be top brand but still dangerous.
And lets not forget about the biggest problem in relation to the safety of cars, the driver. Some think that the laws of physics and mortality do not apply to them and drive with no regard to road safety.
What you propose is simply not achievable.
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The problem with tyres is that the test scores the makers report are awarded in house, well they aint going to give their ditchfinder version ditchfinder marks are they.
Review sites could be bombarded by pro or anti anonymous reviews.
A tyre can be superb on one car and awful on another, ie i had Pirelli P6000's on a very fast Merc estate with sport box, stuck like the proverbial, yet the same tyre is generally slated by owners of other cars.
I just stick to the 4 or 5 mid price range makes i know give me and my family safe predictable handling for very reasonable cost, one make is often made in Japan, the others Germany Finland or Holland.
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Easy. Drive round a wet roundabout, and if the car loses control, the tyre is not fit for sale. I have never had a tyre that lost grip, not matter how worn but within the legal limit, apart from these DiYungs. The EU ratings are total BS.
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Easy. Drive round a wet roundabout, and if the car loses control, the tyre is not fit for sale. I have never had a tyre that lost grip, not matter how worn but within the legal limit, apart from these DiYungs. The EU ratings are total BS.
I could drive any car on any tyre around a wet round about and loose control if I was driving like a total idiot.
Other than proving I was driving like an idiot it would prove nothing.
It would prove nothing about the tyre.
Even the driving gods of F1 have accidents on wet tracks, are their tyres unsafe?
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I know from first hand experience that there is a HUGE difference in transverse grip between a decent new tyre, and a poor quality new one. In my view some budget tyres are not fit for sale because they will loose grip when driven normally in typical driving conditions. I bought some budget tyres, I drove normally, I twice lost control, once spinning off the road, once recovering (having read up on skids). In about 20 years of driving, I have only twice lost control in the wet, both times with these new budget tyres. Do you want to see the videos? The second one shows me doing, ooh let's see now, must be just over 20mph on a roundabout, madness eh? And the rear loses grip, and the car starts to spin. The car in front suffers no such loss.
Here it is:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdhTijcF6BM
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Much as I used to enjoy opposite lock the point of this question was not a debate about tyres (both old and new are almost equally useless on greasy/icy roundabouts) but to ask whether it was worth an alert for the sake of insensitive and inexperienced drivers. Light modern cars with wide tyres slide easily in greasy conditions, even with good new tread. Ice/snow is usually obvious - even if it isn't the authorities alert us to the possibility of black ice - whereas unusually greasy conditions like yesterday can take the unwary by surprise.
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but to ask whether it was worth an alert for the sake of insensitive and inexperienced drivers.
How would you do that. Roadside Matrix signs. Radio news.
How about a man with a flag walking in front of the car.
Other suggestions welcome.
One comment I will make is that a modern car even on wide tyres is many time better than a Ford Anglia was back in the 1960's and 70's on its crossplys. In the wet I survived as did most other people of my era. Todays new drivers have got it so much better.
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Much as I used to enjoy opposite lock the point of this question was not a debate about tyres (both old and new are almost equally useless on greasy/icy roundabouts) but to ask whether it was worth an alert for the sake of insensitive and inexperienced drivers. Light modern cars with wide tyres slide easily in greasy conditions, even with good new tread. Ice/snow is usually obvious - even if it isn't the authorities alert us to the possibility of black ice - whereas unusually greasy conditions like yesterday can take the unwary by surprise.
I was making a serious point. In 20 years of driving I have never, with the exception of these bad tyres, had a skid on a roundabout, or felt that the roundabout was greasy. That is why I wonder if your tyres are less than ideal. Ice is another issue, I've had several skids, all driver error.
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Easy. Drive round a wet roundabout, and if the car loses control, the tyre is not fit for sale. I have never had a tyre that lost grip, not matter how worn but within the legal limit, apart from these DiYungs. The EU ratings are total BS.
Somewhere there must be a British Standard Roundabout ......
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Easy. Drive round a wet roundabout, and if the car loses control, the tyre is not fit for sale. I have never had a tyre that lost grip, not matter how worn but within the legal limit, apart from these DiYungs. The EU ratings are total BS.
Somewhere there must be a British Standard Roundabout ......
www.britishassociationofroundabouts.gov ?
In all seriousness, those who say its all very subjective are right - what's fine for one car/van is not for another - I'm sure if lots of accidents started to crop up with cars fitted with one make or specific tyre then VOSA (or whoever in government/EU equivalent certifies tyres to be road legal/minimum safe standard) would stop their sales and at least carry out an investigation.
What might be possible in some cases (possibly Leif's, but you would've thought others with the same car or similar sized ones would also be affected - it could've been a 'bad batch' that slipped through the quality control net) is that some tyres might just not be suited to very light cars.
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Easy. Drive round a wet roundabout, and if the car loses control, the tyre is not fit for sale. I have never had a tyre that lost grip, not matter how worn but within the legal limit, apart from these DiYungs. The EU ratings are total BS.
Somewhere there must be a British Standard Roundabout ......
They have emissions test which ensure that emissions are low. Err, sort of. But seriously, it is quite possible to perform standardised tests.
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By which I meant that the sale of poor tyres should be banned. The ones I had were potentially fatal, think car going round corner with pedestrians/cyclists nearby.
Where those the Kumho ones?
If so I had them on my Hyundai i10 and never had a probelm with them so don't see why the should be banned!
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By which I meant that the sale of poor tyres should be banned. The ones I had were potentially fatal, think car going round corner with pedestrians/cyclists nearby.
Where those the Kumho ones?
If so I had them on my Hyundai i10 and never had a probelm with them so don't see why the should be banned!
Yes, Kumho kh27. There is a review site, where 3 people including me say they have no grip. Perhaps we need some way to report dangerous tyres, if it is the batch. I assumed it was small cars that had trouble due to beign light, and a small tyre radius, but yours fits that category.
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There is a review site, where 3 people including me say they have no grip
But how many on that review site actually reviewed the tyre?
If its 3 its 100% and probably dangerous.
If its 3000 its 0.1% unhappy buyers and insignificant.
If its 10000 its 0.03% unhappy buyers and totally insignificant.
There will always be disatisfied users but we need to know the sample size before we can decide if there MAY be an issue with the tyre tyre.
For the record we had Kumho KU31 tyres on our C-Max and they were better in every respect than the Continental Sport Contact 3 and Pirelli P6 that preceeded them. Far cheaper as well.
Edited by skidpan on 07/10/2015 at 11:58
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The sample size was 5. Of course you can't draw much in the way of a conclusion as this is not proper random sampling of owners.
As for your tyres, Kumho produce a range of tyres.
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In all honesty a sample of 5 means nothing, too small, could be 5 trolls who just happen to hate Kumho for some reason.
Just found the ADAC test for them.
www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/sommerreifen/...g" target="_blank">https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/sommerreifen/...g
Describe them overall as "satisfactory" but comment "compared to the best in the wet slightly weaker"
Not the best review in the world but not damming in any way.
No idea what you replaced them with, wonder how they do in the same test.
Edited by skidpan on 07/10/2015 at 12:35
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There is a consistancy in the reviews, namely that issues are reported for small cars.
Your review is no better, in fact worse, because they only test one size of tyre, and only one set of that tyre.
Mine were fine for straight line braking in wet and dry, transverse braking in the damp was poor. In fact transverse grip was poor in general.
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There is a consistancy in the reviews, namely that issues are reported for small cars.
Your review is no better, in fact worse, because they only test one size of tyre, and only one set of that tyre.
Mine were fine for straight line braking in wet and dry, transverse braking in the damp was poor. In fact transverse grip was poor in general.
What car is yours?
To be honest I can't see there being that much difference in different tyre sizes from the same range in normal driving.
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To be honest I can't see there being that much difference in different tyre sizes from the same range in normal driving
I agree.
To prove otherwise would need a test track and an experienced test driver who can accurately repeat the exact test in different cars.
Your review is no better, in fact worse, because they only test one size of tyre, and only one set of that tyre
Your experience is also only based on one test, one size of tyre etc so no different and not worse.
Edited by skidpan on 07/10/2015 at 13:51
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To be honest I can't see there being that much difference in different tyre sizes from the same range in normal driving
I agree.
To prove otherwise would need a test track and an experienced test driver who can accurately repeat the exact test in different cars.
Your review is no better, in fact worse, because they only test one size of tyre, and only one set of that tyre
Your experience is also only based on one test, one size of tyre etc so no different and not worse.
I was referring to the 5 reviews on the web site. Regarding tyre size, the EU labels (for what they are worth) depend on tyre size, and of course big cars will be heavier, so you might expect for a large car more contact area (larger tyre) and more ground pressure. It would be interesting to see the differences for a small city car, and a larger estate.
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Regarding tyre size, the EU labels (for what they are worth) depend on tyre size, and of course big cars will be heavier, so you might expect for a large car more contact area (larger tyre) and more ground pressure.
Cars with wider tyres have in my experience had poorer wet grip than cars with narrower tyres which tend to bite through the water easier.
Lighter cars have less inertia when cornering and in my experience have been easier to correct when they start to get lively.
But its all subjective.
You had a bad experience with a brand but a vast majority have had good experiences.
I had a bad experience with Michelins but they put it right with no arguement and I still drive a car on Michelins. I don't keep telling people not to buy Michelins.
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Regarding tyre size, the EU labels (for what they are worth) depend on tyre size, and of course big cars will be heavier, so you might expect for a large car more contact area (larger tyre) and more ground pressure.
Cars with wider tyres have in my experience had poorer wet grip than cars with narrower tyres which tend to bite through the water easier.
Lighter cars have less inertia when cornering and in my experience have been easier to correct when they start to get lively.
But its all subjective.
You had a bad experience with a brand but a vast majority have had good experiences.
I had a bad experience with Michelins but they put it right with no arguement and I still drive a car on Michelins. I don't keep telling people not to buy Michelins.
You are putting words into my mouth, and have done so in earlier posts too. None of my posts in this thread have said do not buy Kumho. I would recommend people do not buy the KH27 based on my experience. The issue is not the brand but the particular model of tyre. And I would recommend not buying a budget tyre, but getting something better, as recommended by people here for example. There are plenty of online tests that demonstrate the huge difference between a budget tyre, and a 'proper' tyre. Many tests are advertising puff for Michelin etc, suggesting you buy a premium tyre. My own experience is that you don't need to buy premium, as indicated by others on this forum elsewhere.
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You are putting words into my mouth, and have done so in earlier posts too. None of my posts in this thread have said do not buy Kumho.
You infer that Kumho is a budget tyre and go on to say do not buy a budget tyre. From that its fair to conclude you really mean do not by Kumhos.
And I would recommend not buying a budget tyre, but getting something better, as recommended by people here for example
People on here recommend Kumhos as I do and Kumho is not a BUDGET tyre. They may have been 20 years ago but now they are a firmly established player whose tyres are generally described as MID RANGE. They are used by somes makes as OEM, you dont get that from cheap ditchfinders
Edited by skidpan on 07/10/2015 at 15:21
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Why are you so combative, repeatedly putting words into my mouth, and then arguing against what I did not say?
Here is my first post:
"I would consider changing your tyres if I were you. I bought new tyres, cheap ones, and come rain the roundabouts were like skidpans. I even spun off on one occasion. Changed the tyres, and lo and behold the roundabouts were no longer like skidpans."
I did not mention Kumho because I did not want to focus on them, I was making a general point that tyres can make a huge difference to road holding even when driving sensibly.
I only indirectly mentioned Kumho when I linked to my YouTube video, to illustrate the point I was making about grip and driving sensibly.
Kumho make a range of tyres, as do many makers, including cheap ones. Mine were dangerous. I do know what some owner reviews on one web site repeat my own experience which makes me worry.
Do you have a financial interested in Kumho tyre sales? It sounds like you do given your combative posts.
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Why are you so sure it was the Kumho tyres and not a couple of incidents where you hit some oil/diesel on the road.
In a majority of instances like yours it will always be the tyres or the car and not the fact the driver was going too fast for the conditions or simply hit some diesel. I know what hitting diesel feels like on a wet roundabout but luckilly I was going at a speed where I was able to control the car.
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Just to get back to the original post, which may disappoint some. Any motorcyclist would tell you yes roads are slippy after rain following a dry spell, and all you need to do is ride/drive with more care. Oh and tyres will grip unless they are practically treadless.
Was this op really genuine, or just baiting ? :-) chill out.
My first post. (I think)
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Had an interesting drive this morning in the lorry, came of the dual carriageway for the 18 mile or so A road down to the motorway at about 0500, on the first roundabout i spotted on the wet road the tell tale curve of Diesel on the NS of the road, sure enough the vehicle wanted to go straight on and not make the turn.
Pre warned, it was wet, i kept the speed down and there it was, a similar spillage from a missing or badly fitted NS filler cap, every roundabout to the motorway.
Bet you bikers would like to offer a big hug and words of encouragement to the neglectful one..:-)
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Why are you so sure it was the Kumho tyres and not a couple of incidents where you hit some oil/diesel on the road.
So, in 20 years of driving, I have only ever had two skids on a wet road, both within weeks of each other, both with the same new tyres. And even when I did not skid, there were many occasions where the wheels felt as if they were sliding, but not skidding, a sensation that there was a lack of grip.
The first skid was on a local roundabout I have driven round many many times over many years. I was going at my usual speed, typical for traffic here. The second skid was when going sedately round a roundabout, following another car that did not skid. You can see for yourself, it's not boy racer style driving.
The idea that this is due to two diesel spills is stretching probability somewhat. The first time round I did assume it was due to a diesel spill. The second skid convinced me otherwise. As did the general lack of grip.
Incidentally the first thing I did with the replacement tyres was to go to an area of wide private road, in wet conditions, and do some sharp cornering at modest speed and I failed to induce a skid.
The cheap tyres were dangerous.
In a majority of instances like yours it will always be the tyres or the car and not the fact the driver was going too fast for the conditions or simply hit some diesel. I know what hitting diesel feels like on a wet roundabout but luckilly I was going at a speed where I was able to control the car.
See above. 10 years NCB. IAM lessons about 10 years ago to improve safety. It does get on my nerves when people make such stupid statements, based on assumptions.
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Here are some reviews:
www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Kumho/Ecowing-ES01-KH27...m
Hopefully that worked. This forum has gone weird! Anyway, two reviews are very similar to mine.
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Sounds like your experiences weren't an isolated incident, thought the possible link to 'lighter cars' doesn't seem to be borne out - other than yourself, the Qashqai and Fabia owners thought they were really bad, and the MX-5 and Rapid good. The 225-45 R17 variant did seems to fair very badly though, admitedly with only 5 reviews in total. The general magazine reviews quoted there (especially the last one) gave it a very poor grade, especially in the wet, as you unfortunately found out.
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I was just guessing about the light car, I guess I was wrong.
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Not to worry - I suspect that some tyres just perform really badly on certain cars - perhaps the sign of a good tyre is one that works well on many cars?
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Why are you so sure it was the Kumho tyres and not a couple of incidents where you hit some oil/diesel on the road.
If you read Leif's OP instead of being combative you'd see he seemed to have a genuine problem.
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