When new roads get built or older ones upgraded, the result is inevitably more traffic than before, because people either believe that a switch from public transport to car will save them a bit of time and money on an existing journey, or actually attempt a journey that would have been out of the question before.
The reason is the population density of much of the UK and the high proportion of car ownership, plus our reliance on road transport. No foreseeable amount of road improvement will keep ahead of this - all that happens is just a modest amount of catch-up. It would take vast expenditure and disregard for environmental concerns to change that.
Being "ashamed of my country" - presumably on the grounds that its road infrastructure doesn't allow average speeds of anything like the legal maximum 24/7 - is a rather silly reaction based on unrealistic expectations.
It is easy to argue that a particular route, like the A14, is spectactularly in need of improvement, but I suspect that if it happened it would simply shift the problem somewhere else.
Edited by FP on 03/04/2015 at 23:15
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Agree with OP, it is indeed embarrassing to return from driving anywhere in Europe back off the ferry on to our infrastructure. The quality of our road surfaces is generally awful, they are full of potholes,repairs and repaired repairs. There is a section of the A48M near Cardiff that is dangerous, as the O/s tyre line is breaking up for hundreds of metres. Whern I ride my bike, I find I increasingly adjust my position in the road from Position 3 (to the right of the centre of the lane) to the centre strip just to avoid the mess of pot holes and poor repairs. We are supposedly the 4th richest contry in the world, yet our transport infrastructure is still Victorian. Why no 200mph TGV trains here, why no 300 mph Bullit trains? i can't think of a reason other than the hopeless short term political system tied up with a tortuous planning system that won't approve anything. GB has a good point too!
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It's also true to say that no one, or very few anyway seem confident to overtake as much now.
Overtaking does now also seem to annoy other drivers much more than it did with some even, appearing at least, to actively attempt to prevent it.
Totally agree. I spend quite a bit of time driving on Lincolnshire A roads which are in pretty good condition and on the whole have pretty good visibility. But get in a queue in the summer behing a caravan and no one is prepared to overtake. Being a press on driver I pick my spots and get past as many as I can safely (as much to prevent boredom as any hope of getting there faster) but some driver blast their horns in anger and other close the gap to prevent you from getting back in.
No amount of road improvements are going to stop this behaviour and there is no way these roads will ever be dualed.
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It's why military convoys [in Europe] have that large spacing....
Military convoys have a large gap between vehicles for a very different reasons than allowing overtaking. One is simply that should one vehicle hit a land mine others in the convoy can take apropriate action without being affected. Another is ambushes, far more difficult to ambush a widely spaced convoy than a group of vehicles.
Think about it, even on UK motorways military convoys travel with huge spaces and overtaking is not that difficult on a motorway.
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We are supposedly the 4th richest contry in the world, yet our transport infrastructure is still Victorian. Why no 200mph TGV trains here, why no 300 mph Bullit trains? i can't think of a reason other than the hopeless short term political system tied up with a tortuous planning system that won't approve anything.
We've had TGV style trains running to the Channel Tunnel now for years and the full service on 'HS1' since 2007. North of London we've been able to run excellent high speed services over the Victorian infrastructure. The distances are too short for French style new lines to be justified on time saving alone.
It's only now when the old lines are full that we can justify HS2 etc becuase they deliver capacity - speed is a bonus.
Even then the NIMBYs, including many regular posters here, deny the need.
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Even then the NIMBYs, including many regular posters here, deny the need.
Well there is no need for HS2 but that's really beside the point because there's certainly no money to build it anyway.
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Well there is no need for HS2 but that's really beside the point because there's certainly no money to build it anyway.
As somebody who's usd the overcrowded London lines for years I'd beg to differ. The cost spread over it's lifetime is not really an issue.
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It is an issue if you haven't got it, but that sort of thing hasn't bothered Government for a few years now.
I haven't been on a train for roughly 10 years and have only been on a train a handful of times, but I don't see how oblierating the countryside to build a mega fast train to Manchester (for £70billion) is going to solve the overcrowding problems on the Northern Line.
From what I've heard the long distance train services are decent enough already, it's the shorter distance inner city journeys which are the problem.
A previous poster mentioned the fact the countries inferstructure is still Victorian. Well 100 years ago, the population was something like 35 million. It's now nearly double that and it simply wasn't built for it. Simple as that really.
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<<<But also you used to be able, on say a 60 mph road, to briefly whack it up to 70 or so to get past quickly >>>>
Exceeding the speed limit is an absolute offence.
Therefore the above is pure urban myth.
Trouble with urban myth is, apply it long enough and often enough, without being brought to book, and it is deemed acceptable.
There is no need to exceed the speed limit when overtaking.
If such a need proves necessary, then the overtake should not have been conducted...it is not a 'safe' overtake, therefore the action would be in contravention of the Law.
So, if folk consider it acceptable to flout the Law, exceed the limit, why not simply ignore the limits full stop?
[Why stop at overtaking? Why not just bash on anyway? Why do people overtake me, by exceeding the limit, then slow down to the limit in front? Getting in MY way as a result...Two offences! ]
Why worry about cameras? As we all know, many don't work, there are too few trafpol about to be of concern....so why not drive everywhere at 90mph? No-one is going to prevent you?
Incidentally, speed camera sites are probably one of the best places to overtake...given what the average driver does when spotting one?
The Driving licence today equates to nothing more than a travel pass.
Edited by alastairq on 04/04/2015 at 18:09
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<<<<< Military convoys have a large gap between vehicles for a very different reasons than allowing overtaking. One is simply that should one vehicle hit a land mine others in the convoy can take apropriate action without being affected. Another is ambushes, far more difficult to ambush a widely spaced convoy than a group of vehicles.
Think about it, even on UK motorways military convoys travel with huge spaces and overtaking is not that difficult on a motorway.>>>>>
Really?
Speaking as an active Military driver Instructor, engaged currently on Service Driver Conversion, believe me, the reasons for the distancing have little to do with what you quote, and everything to do with integrating with the local travelling community, minimising the impact of such moverments.
Procedures to deal with what you mention are created to suit the theatre. All direct military procedure also is dealt with likewise.
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Had a bad day or something? Surely you're not that miserable as a general rule? Maybe you are.
Do cheer up !
;-)
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Had a bad day or something? Surely you're not that miserable as a general rule? Maybe you are. Do cheer up ! ;-)
I wish!
We are entering into a 'work overload' situation....no doubt everyone will have heard of the 'mass sackings' within the entire Civil Service....not for reason of redundancy, but for reasons of discipline.
What with that to look forward to [I'm not personally affected :)]....plus the usual post-winter grotty bug, and coping with numpties who've sadly found their ignition keys......this place is the place to be, to be a GOG.....and vent a spleen or two.
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<< It's only now when the old lines are full that we can justify HS2 etc because they deliver capacity - speed is a bonus. >>
I suggest that one way to increase capacity is to lengthen the trains, which should be possible on most lines, but may mean lengthening some platforms too. Capacity may then be limited by parking at stations?
HS2 may be a nice idea in principle, but the time savings - and perhaps the capacity increase too - will be limited by the need to use existing low-speed lines inside the urban destination areas. The huge sums predicted are sure to be considerable under-estimates, or no-one would accept the proposal. And the most pointless reason to build it is to create jobs!
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I suggest that one way to increase capacity is to lengthen the trains, which should be possible on most lines, but may mean lengthening some platforms too.
On the West Coast Line 12 cars is the max at most stations. Most trains are already 12 cars, at least in peak. Try extending all those platforms, some of which also have signalling implications, while continiuing to run the railway around them.
Like the other 'bright idea' of double decking the trains it ends up costing more than a new line.
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Like the other 'bright idea' of double decking the trains it ends up costing more than a new line.
Seems to work well in mainland Europe - we are sadly behind with our pathetically inadequate loading gauge.
But - lean over any railway bridge at most times of the day and all you will see is wasted space. Occasionally an anachronistic string of motorist-tax-payer-subsidised coaches will trundle through delivering people from a place where they don't live or work to a place where they don't want to be. Lean over most dual carriageway bridges and you will see in the space of a mere 10mins vehicles containing enough people and baggage to fill two trains.
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Even then the NIMBYs, including many regular posters here, deny the need.
Arguably, there is arguably no 'need' for HS2. It would make more sense to improve on the design and turnaround procedures of the 6wheel coaches with wings which ply almost silently between their badly designed stations. Because they require no expensive tarmac or metal, they need no subsidy. Indeed, those of us who use them have to pay a special tax, some of which is undoubtedly vired to support those who travel on huge noisy intrusive expensive high maintenance anachronistic land-grabbing rail coaches - many of which ironically are unavailable when people want to use them during holiday time!
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Agree with OP, it is indeed embarrassing to return from driving anywhere in Europe back off the ferry
Thanks, Bazza - I know the feeling!
Why no 200mph TGV trains here, why no 300 mph Bullit trains? i can't think of a reason........
1. ( or three if you pad it out) Our country is too small and crowded to justify the audiovisual intrusion.
2. It's just far too expensive! Even America hasn't adopted this foolish policy.
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When new roads get built or older ones upgraded, the result is inevitably more traffic than before, because people either believe that a switch from public transport to car will save them a bit of time and money on an existing journey, or actually attempt a journey that would have been out of the question before.
Try 'directions' on Google Maps for a few journeys - Huddersfield Railway station to Sheffield University, for example.
By car, three routes, 56 min to 1 hour, about 1 gallon of petrol, say £6. (you have already paid road tax, insurance and acar will still depreciate sitting on your drive)
By rail and tram, 1hr 39 min to 2 hr 2 min, cheapest single £9.30 + tramfare (£2?)
Back in 1961-4, I travelled this route by train, single fare 6/6d, day return 6/3d, time to Sheffield Victoria station about 50 minutes.
By car, as there were no cameras, fewer speed limits and less traffic, about 40 minutes and about a gallon of petrol, 4/-.
The direct rail route this used (Woodhead/Penistone/Stocksbridge/Sheffield) was closed so now the rail route is via Barnsley.
So public transport was quite competitive, now it is not only more expensive and less convenient, off the main North/South lines its also slower, so not surprising so many prefer to use the car. As a bonus, up to 5 of you can make the journey for the same cost as one, who can afford a family train trip?
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I find myself in the strange position of agreeing with young Jamie.
Well there is no need for HS2 but that's really beside the point because there's certainly no money to build it anyway.
Apart from the enormous finacial cost, who needs to be able to get to Birmingham 30 minutes quicker?
(Aplogies to anybody who lives in on and around Brum)
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Apart from the enormous finacial cost, who needs to be able to get to Birmingham 30 minutes quicker?
The angry looking man in the BMW following 2 feet behind your bumper at 70 mph on the M1 ?? !!
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How about not voting for the parties that support burning £billions on HS2 in May for a start.
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