VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Sun 15 Feb 2015 23:02

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - JonB50

Hi All,

That's an annoying start for my first post on the forum, I couldn't put the full Subject in that I wanted.

Anyway, my wife and I are both full time wheelchair users and on the Motability scheme. We can both only drive an auto. I'm about to change my car (a 3 year lease for those that don't know the Motability scheme) and after looking at A LOT of other models I've narrowed the choice down to a VW Golf 1.4 TSI DSG or 1.2 SE DSG Skoda Fabia Estate. Yes I know they have a lot of shared parts etc so any views on whether the more expensive Golf is worth it and why, would be appreciated please. Also, I've read that the new lower cc but turbo engines are fine for tootling round town but when you have to make them work harder mpg really suffers, so does that mean th 1.4 Golf would be worth it in maintaining mpg through a range of conditions?

Any responses would be appreciated but please only tell me about the autos cos as I say, we can't drive a manual. Many thanks in advance

Edited by JonB50 on 15/02/2015 at 23:03

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Sun 15 Feb 2015 23:25

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Big John

Make sure the 1.2Fabia Estate is the new model. The old model has a very different inferior engine. You want the latest EA211 engine. You can tell the difference under the bonnet - the latest engine has the exhaust manifold between engine and bulkhead rather than at the front of the car. Also avoid the 86bhp version - it will be underpowered.

The Golf 1.4 has had the EA211 engine for some time. This engine has great performance and excellent real life economy.

The Golf is a much much better car however one problem with the Golf hatch may be the size of boot for wheelchairs. Have you considered a Skoda Octavia - it has a huge boot?

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Sun 15 Feb 2015 23:30

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - RobJP

It's a bit different for you, as on a lease, you'll get another car in 3 years time, but I wouldn't touch a DSG gearbox on a VAG group car. Too many problems, and to make it worse, an utter denial of problems for as long as they could get away with it.

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Mon 16 Feb 2015 00:26

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Avant

That 'subject' is fine for length: it needs to be able to fit in one line on the list.

If you need to carry two wheelchairs at the same time, best to go for an estate. The Fabia estate is a brand new model and may take some time to come through. If the Golf estate is too expensive to lease, try a SEAT Leon ST estate with the same 1.4 engine - just as roomy but cheaper.

There are questio marks over the longevity of the DSG, but if you're getting another new car in 3 years you should be fine.

Edited by Avant on 16/02/2015 at 00:27

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Tue 17 Feb 2015 08:19

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - daveyK_UK

Seat Toledo and Skids Rapid , both have huge boots that can fit 2 wheelchairs in.

Every wheelchair user I know drives an MPV,

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Tue 17 Feb 2015 12:04

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - slkfanboy

I seen quite a few post about issues with DSG box and also 1.4tsi Engines. I personally look at other options maybe 1.6 engine as in any case 1.2 or 1.4 engine is quite small for the size of car. Depends on use of course.

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Tue 17 Feb 2015 12:08

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - skidpan

The current 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines are not in any way related to the earlier 1.2 and 1.4 TSi engines.

They are not too small for the car, with the turbo they perform brilliantly and are very economical as well.

We have a 1.4 TSi in a 2013 Leon and its brilliant. 140 PS and 45 genuine mpg.

Since the OP is leasing long term reliabilty is not an issue anyway.

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Wed 18 Feb 2015 13:28

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - slkfanboy

Regarding the new 1.4TSI engine introduced on the MQB platform (VW Golf mk7, Skoda Octavia mk3, Seat Leon mk3, Audi A3 mk3), the general VAG code is EA 211 for 1.2tsi, 1.4tsi and more recently 1.0tsi

That a revised from the previous version. None of this makes any odd as the issues with 1.4tsi related to production quality of timing chains and we have no real way of knowing if these issues are sorted or not other than wait and see.

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Wed 18 Feb 2015 13:35

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - skidpan

Regarding the new 1.4TSI engine introduced on the MQB platform (VW Golf mk7, Skoda Octavia mk3, Seat Leon mk3, Audi A3 mk3), the general VAG code is EA 211 for 1.2tsi, 1.4tsi and more recently 1.0tsi

That a revised from the previous version. None of this makes any odd as the issues with 1.4tsi related to production quality of timing chains and we have no real way of knowing if these issues are sorted or not other than wait and see.

The fact that the cars built on the MQB platform have the new engine makes a huge difference.

The EA 211 has belt driven cams thus the problems with earlier cam chains simply cannot happen.

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Wed 18 Feb 2015 16:01

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - slkfanboy

The MQB platform is about cheaper/lighter cars nothing else hence a return to cam belts. Sadly like all car makes except maybe Kia & hyundai cost cutting is vital.

It's nothing new either common sub frames/engines have been used for years by all car makers.

Making 60 differant model from common components maybe on new scales than seen before. It's not make it better simply cheaper and lighter as is the future of cars.

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Thu 19 Feb 2015 13:16

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - skidpan

The MQB platform is about cheaper/lighter cars nothing else hence a return to cam belts.

Cam belt or cam chain the cost of manufacture will only be pence difference. The previous generation of Audi/VW/Seat/Skoda were all built on the same platform as well so cost saving in that respect is not new.

Sadly like all car makes except maybe Kia & hyundai cost cutting is vital.

We have a Kia as well as the Seat, both are fine cars. With all Kia's and Hyundais sharing most components cost cutting/saving is practiced there as well.

It's not make it better simply cheaper and lighter as is the future of cars.

If cars are cheaper what is wrong with that. Making them lighter should also make them more efficient. Do you want heavy expensive cars?

Bottom line is the cars of today are better than they have ever been. Some people don't want that for some reason, they see the cars of years ago that were rusty, unreliable and inefficient as the pinacle of automotive design and manufacture. If they want them perhaps they should be able to buy them but should pay for the privilage.

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 15:25

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - cws

Going (even further) off off topic.....

Define 'better'.

Yes cars have got safer and more economical plus decreasing emissions. But on the flipside are they better built? - not always (compare a Golf Mk4 to a Golf Mk5 and or a Passat 3B to Passat 3C and you'll see a marked drop in interior quality, especially after 100K of average use). Are they cheaper to fix - almost ceratinly not (correct me if I'm wrong but I read the latest Discovery requires the engines dropping for most jobs). Are they less problematic the older they get - no! (and following manufacturer maintenance schedules makes no differance eg sensor or control module faliures). Take the example of modern diesel engines - all manufacturers have varying levels of injector faliures - why? The injectors are often operating right at the very limits they were designed to, due to mpg and emission requirements. Back to control modules - more and more (plus now many parts, even including fuel pumps) are 'flash' coded - this is a far more 'shaky' form of coding, long-term ie after 10years, as you see component faliures due to coding-related malfunctions. Why is it done? Because only main dealers can code/replace many parts, as it requires connections via the internet to manufacturer's databases. That's all ££££££ more...

It's great if you only ever run a 'modern' car whilst it's still within it's (normal 3year) warranty period, but outside of that period and especially after 5years, car repairs are going to get increasingly expensive and I think we'll see more and more 'younger' cars scrapped due to uneconomical repair......

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 16:00

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - gordonbennet

^^^^ oh yes.

90's designs for me, near enough all the benefits but before electronics got silly.

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 16:14

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Ordovices

I'm probably not best placed to answer this as I actually have one of the poorly built cars that you mention. I know first hand knowledge is frowned upon on these pages, but here we go....

I have a Passat 3C, well over 100,000 miles and yes it has been a money pit what with having to replace a parking brake switch (£29 iirc)and both front wiper blades (£9 halford's discount card) in 7 years. Im very worried, that sometime soon, I may have to put some new brake pads in, front and rear!

The interior is pretty much blemish free and as fresh as it ever was, there are a few stone chips on the bonnet, but I can't really blame that on declining manufacturing standards.

I get an average of 50 mpg on my weekly 300 mile commute, this is both calculated and on the read out.

It has never broken down.

So modern cars are rubbish because you have to drop the engine in a land rover to work on it? Before PD and CR engines, diesels never broke down, did they? Gosh how I pine for the golden days of motoring....I still get a tear in my eye when I think of my Metro 1.0 HLE, and how jealous I was when my mate got his Allegro.

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 17:17

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - slkfanboy

Im sure you are one of the lucky passat owners. I cant say the new bumpy suspenion is better than the smooth one of the previous version. The new added door rattle hides the booring music on radio 1 maybe, so yes we are moving forward?

In some ways you are correct and new features like dsg or dab/usb are great yes anfd yes they are try to be more consistant in quality true.

I'd still rather have a spare tyre than a can of spray or runflat. A solid engine rather than a super turbo'ed one thats over stressed. A turbo is fine around town and saves money and but uses more than a 3.0L on the motorway not so cool.

So back to the orginal post. Either car is great and more or less the same quality. Get the one with the features that best fit your needs. Try and get a slighly bigger engine as it will be less stressed and therefore less lightly to fail and carefully consider DSG.

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 18:54

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Ordovices

405 na xud then

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 19:49

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - skidpan

A turbo is fine around town and saves money and but uses more than a 3.0L on the motorway not so cool.

Its clear from the above comment that you have never even driven let alone owned a modern turbo petrol car. I own one so I know the truth.

Lets take a couple of cars we have owned during the past 15 years, the well respected 1.7 Puma (125 PS, non-turbo of course) and a 1.4 TSi Leon (140 PS with a turbo). Both have roughly the same 0 - 60 time but the acceleration in any gear in the Leon is in a different league. The Leon is also a bigger and heavier car.

Every summer we go to Whitby, its about 120 miles each way. About 1/2 is on motorways and the other 1/2 on good A roads. We go early and come back late so traffic is not an issue. The Puma averaged a calculated 38 mpg when we checked it on one trip. The Seat averaged 52 mpg when we checked it. For comparison our BMW 118D (142 PS) averaged 54 mpg when we checked it, at the time we thaought that was good at the time.

If we used a non-turbo 3 litre on the trip I think we would be lucky to get 30 mpg.

Its simply no contest. Get a good modern turbo petrol like the 1.4 TSi VAG engine and you have great performance and almost diesel economy with none of the worries about DPF's etc.

When we replace our other car, a diesel Kia Ceed SW it will be another Turbo Petrol.

Suggest you try one before making any more comments.

Edited by skidpan on 20/02/2015 at 19:50

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 19:51

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Ordovices

Maybe I have been lucky, not just with this car. I have never had the need to use a spare wheel, so on reflection I may aswell have been driving around with a broken lawnmower in the boot for 40 years, and I don't believe I would have got the same mpg from a 3.0 litre as I have from a 1.9 and the attendant extra cost of bigger engined cars ( tyres, servicing, ved) is avoided.

As for smaller engines being stressed, if the engine is designed for the power it generates eg pistons, bearings, conrods etc then size really doesn't matter. The assumption is that these smaller engines are just a souped up version of the standard unit. They aren't.

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 22:20

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - cws

Did you actually read my post? First off I'm not saying modern cars are rubbish! I'll let you re-read it again and then tell me where I said modern cars are rubbish?

Also first hand knowledge isn't always frowned on here, but likewise your flawless experience with the Passat doesn't mean anyone who says otherwise is talking rubbish either (that's the great thing about Internet forums-you can express a personal opinion, and even better when you give some background behind your opinion). I owned a Golf Mk4 and then a Golf Mk5, and then a Passat 3B and a friend had a Passat 3C at the same time as my Passat (which I helped him to maintain). So I do actually speak from
experience. Great that you've had hassle free motoring with your Passat but go to one of the Passat forums and ask there how people rate the 3C compared to the 3B. First hand experience also show me my mate's 3C was not wearing as well as my 3B, yet his had done less miles. Worn off coating on the centre console and radio controls on a car under a 100K don't really inspire me with confidence of good quality.

And do you really think its good that on a car you have to drop the engine if you have to do much more than normal servicing? Sure it may never go wrong but when it does it means ££££££ for even simple repairs resulting from wear and tear. That is not clever engineering. Clever engineering on cars includes ease of maintenance and access when inevitable repairs are needed.

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Sat 21 Feb 2015 11:43

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Ordovices

Did you actually read my post? First off I'm not saying modern cars are rubbish! I'll let you re-read it again and then tell me where I said modern cars are rubbish?

Re read your post, the middle paragraph, and sum up what you are saying in many fewer words, modern cars are: less well built, less reliable, more expensive to fix, more problematic. My precis of your prolix paragraph was "rubbish".

If the maintenance is planned around taking an engine out as the most pragmatic solution then what's the problem. I'd rather work on an engine where I can see and readily access the components which I need to, and are you sure the engine has to be dropped for "most jobs"?

Is it possible your "friend" is mistreating his car?

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Sun 22 Feb 2015 10:33

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - cws

Whole point of my post was to invite people to decide/define what is better - if I wanted to make a blanket statement then that's what I would have done.

If you're running cars only within warranty periods/on lease/take it to the main dealer for everything then you will no doubt like the extra economy (in most cases) and lower tax and think successively more modern cars are better.

If you're running cars outside of warranty/to higher mileages/like to do a lot of your own repairs and maintenance then you may disagree that modern cars are better and feel that extra mpg and lower tax doesn't outweigh larger repair bills and more reliance on garages/main dealers.

As for my friends Passat it was everyday average use without mistreatment - same as for my Passat-yet the interior of his car looked like a car that had done double the mileage of what it actually had done. And there's really a lot you can do to prevent seats sagging and plastic coatings wearing off contacts points such as the radio controls.

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 19:53

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Arbutus

I have a Mk6, 2010 Golf 1.4 122PS TSI DSG in Match trim. My daughter has the same car with DSG in SE trim in Australia.

Both have been reliable. My daughter’s car copes well with the ten hour trip from Sydney to Melbourne without problems but of course it’s not quite as relaxing as something like a Ford Mondeo or Audi A6.

My UK Golf is comfortable and easy to drive around town and can hold its own on the motorway. Overtaking and cruising in the third lane is no problem, If I’m not careful the speed can easily go above 90.

I’ve been surprised by how competent a 1.4 122PS petrol engine can be.

The latest Mk7 Golf is supposed to be much better than my Mk6 in all areas.

A new 1.4 TSI Golf will have multi-link rear suspension (supposedly quieter) and be designed for the standards of a C-segment car. A new model Fabia will have twist beam rear suspension and will be designed for the class below a Golf, the B-segment. The Fabia as standard does not even have electric rear windows and I assume things like the upholstery will be of poorer quality.

I have no way of knowing what the difference between the Golf and Fabia are in things like soundproofing, or the design of the seat springing, or the quality of the carpets, or the quality of the sound system but I would guess that the Golf, as it’s competing in the C-segment would be better in all these areas than the Fabia and be more satisfying to live with.

Also, I don’t know if the Golf is easier to get into and out of.

However if the Fabia estate has a lower boot load lip and it is easier to stow and extract wheelchairs from it, this could make life less stressful for you.

For my next car I’m considering the Golf SV. It’s taller than the Golf and easier to get in and out of. Designed for the silver generation.

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Fri 20 Feb 2015 22:34

VW Golf 1.4 DSG or Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 DSG - Avant

"For my next car I’m considering the Golf SV. It’s taller than the Golf and easier to get in and out of. Designed for the silver generation."

True (and that was a very good summary of the Golf/Fabia question originally raised).

It's good to see the Golf SV and the BMW 2-series Active Tourer address the needs of the 'silver generation' like me (and presumably you, Arbutus). The ideal is something you can get in and out of without climnbing either up (crossovers and 4x4s) or down (most other cars), and also something that is fun to drive. Up to now there's only been the Ford C-Max that can claim to be a 'driver's car'.

Edited by Avant on 20/02/2015 at 22:35

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