Prang-how to convince insurers? - Orson {P}
I was driven into in the supermarket car park on Saturday morning. I had waited for a gap in the traffic, and had been waved out of my space by 2 oncoming vehicles. I'd just finished reversing, and was sat there just putting the car into first when I was hit from behind by a third vehicle pulling out of the junction opposite my space. The witnesses all cleared off before we could get details. I exchanged details with the other chap, who said he thought that we had been going the same speed: me backwards and he forwards. I'm certain this wasn't the case, due to the ease with which my car was pushed forwards - had I been in reverse, surely it wouldn't have rolled forwards in the same way. The direction I was pushed was not back into my space: I must therefore have straightened up ready to leave.

My point is this: I'm as sure as I can be that I was stationary at the point of impact, but when it comes down to the insurance companies, how can I persuade them that it wasn't my fault (without lying, obviously!) As I say, the distance I travelled and the time elapsed between me starting my manoeuvre and the distance he travelled before he hit me does lead me to think that it must be his fault for driving into a stationary car. Am I horribly deluded?

Prang-how to convince insurers? - NWS
Long shot, but ask the supermarket if they have any CCTV footage
Prang-how to convince insurers? - TrevorP
Whatever, although I sympathise,

I think in practice that people's idea of "fault" does not often coincide with insurance companies.

Unledd there are witnesses to an incident, who are prepared to say that it was solely 1 party's fault, insurance companies will come to some arrangement between themselves.

This may involve the loss or reduction of NCD for both concerned parties.

As to minimising the chaces of such an incident happening again,
I have 2 suggestions:-
1) Reverse into space in car park. Always.
2) NEVER take notice of waving by anybody else.
(don't do it yourself - or flash - )
Prang-how to convince insurers? - TrevorP
or even "Unless"
Prang-how to convince insurers? - Mark (RLBS)
>>hit from behind by a third vehicle pulling out of the junction opposite my space.

Could you clraify this bit for me, I am confused. Junction ?
Prang-how to convince insurers? - Toad, of Toad Hall.
I think the exact circumstances are irrelvant.

The problem is convincing an insurer of a disputed set of facts without witnesses.

I'd have thought this was tricky unles the other guy has an accurate recollection of what happened and is *very* honest.
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Prang-how to convince insurers? - Orson {P}
Car park with supermarket perimeter road , and spaces on the side of the perimeter road as well, where I was parked. The junction was one of the lanes down to all the other parking spaces. Hard to describe in words, but imagine a crossroads with me reversing into it. In hindsight, bad place to park, but it was a marked space, and one of the only ones free...

Prang-how to convince insurers? - Peter D
Examine the damage to the rear of your vehicle. I suggest that the damage is not symmetrical and if you can clearly display and photograph the area that shows the sliding action of the other party hitting your car you should be able to address this with the insurance company and assessor. You may have to forward the photographs to the Insurance Accident Investigation department and you are going to have to press very hard. Put if your photo’s can show the asymmetric dent showing who was moving then go for it.

Photograph the scene, the exact slot and measure it up and draw a scaled map and exact point of impact. The insurance companies are likely to settle tit for tat so act quickly, send them a good letter, a map, a set ( One of the two sets you had printed ) of photos kindly request a prompt investigation in to this matter and an early reply.

If you have legal cover on your policy ( DAS ) then send them the ‘Pack’.

Good Luck. Peter
Prang-how to convince insurers? - Mark (RLBS)
>>The insurance companies are likely to settle tit for tat so act quickly

First I suspect that you mean "knock for knock", secondly, assuming that a k4k agreement exists between the two insurers, then they will settle using that mechanism irrespective of who is to blame.

k4k is absolutely nothing to do with anything that can possibly affect the policy holder.

Without tpi or non-automotive tpd it is a matter of irrelevance to the insurers as to who is at fault - at least insofar as their claims dept. is concerned. Underwriting will care but they will use the recovery of uininsured losses and the general circumstances of the accident to decide - which insurer paid for what will not be taken into account.
Prang-how to convince insurers? - Mark (RLBS)
The problem is the fact that you were reversing, either at the time of the accident or shortly before. And whilst the other guy was coming from a "junction", he as still on the road whereas you were coming from a parking space onto the road.

If nobody could prove anything and nobody said anything, then the easy assumption would be that it was your fault (I am not saying that it actually was, you understand).

Unfortunately this suggests that you have to come with evidence or an argument which opposes the "default" view - essentially looking for disputing evidence rather than confirmation evidence. That's quite difficult at trhe best of times. Given that, I would think that you're kind of stuffed. Bear in mind that, other than from an emotional point of view, that any portion of the blame will put it down on your insurance record as your fault.

How much was the damage ? (any idea for both cars ?)

However, your insurance company will not try and defend anything. Essentially if the accident is entirely not your fault, your insurer will pay for your damage and leave it at that. If the accident is deemed entirely *your* fault, then your insurer will pay for your damage and leave it at that.

An insurer is only going to care one way or another where either there is personal injury or there is property damage which is not automotive.

Given that neither of these apply, there is nothing in it for your insurer either way. Therefore, they will simply pay what they have to pay and then judge the fault by whether or not you manage to recover your excess from the other person - which is doubtful.

If the other guy sounds unsure, then you could try bluffing.

Or, you could not submit a claim to your insurer, tell him to go away when either he or his insurer tries to get insurance details from you and then see what happens - maybe he won't pursue it further, maybe he will but in such an instance the country court will make a middle of the road decision, who knows.

However, my advice would be that unless it will *really* hurt (you are young, silly car, bad claims record) then you bite the bullet, let it go and put it down to experience.

The accident sounds like some level of fault lay with both sides and it makes no difference to you whether or not that was 50:50 or 99:1

Sorry not to be more helpful.
Prang-how to convince insurers? - Orson {P}
Thanks for all the tips. Yes,there may well have been fault on both sides, though it annoys me that I was entirely on the roadway before I was hit (as opposed to just sailing out willy-nilly.)

It's my first bump for 9 years, and a sensible car, but a big (£500) excess and 4 years no claims which I'd rather not lose if at all possible. I can show sliding damage, though I suspect that given the angles of both cars, it would have occurred anyway. The damage works out at £1200 for me, and probably at least that for him(he was in an Audi A2 that seemed to be made of paper) The store CCTV was pointing the other way, so no good for me.

I'm happy to take the hit if that's what it comes to, and just put it down to experience. Thanks for all your help.

Prang-how to convince insurers? - jeds
I was once hit by a driver reversing the wrong way up a one way street - he was pointing the right way but reversing about 6 or 7 houses rather than drive all the way round the one way system - if you see what I mean.

The driver obviously knew he was in the wrong and was the usual 'sorry about that' etc. Unfortunately, when he reported to his insurance company, he gave a different story and said he thought it was an equal knock for knock. I went to his house several times but he wouldn't answer the door.

The upshot was that my insurance company (can't remember which one) didn't want to know. They said their criteria was 'if I recover my no claims from the other driver they would take that as an admission of his guilt'.

I trawled the houses and eventually found a woman who saw the whole thing and even added in her report that she has seen the bloke do it many times and often thought to herself it was only a matter of time before he had an accident.

A small matter but sweet justice.
Prang-how to convince insurers? - jeds
Sorry, I meant to say 'if I recover my excess' from the other driver. Bad day at the office.
Prang-how to convince insurers? - Dave_TD
I had a similar incident last month, I was crawling along in a traffic jam in a one way street, approaching a parked lorry. The queue I was in was in the right-hand lane, the lorry was parked on the left. A guy in another car drove right up behind the lorry and then tried to force his way to the right, into the queue, but forced his way into my front nearside wing instead. Now his insurance have sent me a letter stating that from the information they have it appears to be 100% MY fault, and could I forward my details to them please?
I've filled in a statement of fact for my own insurers, stating clearly that I do not feel I was in any way to blame for this accident. I had a passenger on board at the time, she is also of the opinion that the other guy just drove into us without me being to blame. How is this going to affect my insurance next year? Taxi insurance isn't cheap as it is.
Prang-how to convince insurers? - JamesH
I've finally decided on a change of car. I've ordered the new one and will collect it next month, so I put my trusty Fiesta in the Autotrader. The mag came out yesterday.

It's 3 years to the day since my only ever (fault) accident so it no longer needs to be declared on insurance proposals.

However, I was shunted from behind today. It was on an urban dual carriageway in lane 2 (of 2). A car pulled out from the left to turn right across the traffic. The centre gap was small so its back end blocked my lane.

I slowed down and stopped but the car behind hit me. I now need a new bumper and part of the back panel bending back into shape. I've had an estimate of nearly £700 from a Ford dealer.

My first problem is that the money paid to Autotrader this week is wasted because I can't sell the car now. Secondly, I will have to insure two cars at once until the Fiesta can be mended and sold. There is also the awkward situation of having two cars when I'm only allowed a resident's permit for one.

My biggest worry is that despite believing that I have no blame, I could lose my no claims. That would make the car I'm buying too expensive to insure at renewal.

I was quite shaken after the car was hit and my concern was to get the cars off the dual carriageway to somewhere safer to exchange details. I didn't think about witnesses until it we were off the road and it was too late.

I just hope that the rental company insurance of the other car coughs up. I gather I'll just have to bear the extra advertising and extended insurance costs myself.

A very miffed James
(More miffed after spending ages on Saturday polishing fine scratches out of the bumper ready for a sale)
Prang-how to convince insurers? - DavidHM
Being hit by a rental car is probably the best thing that could have happened to you, short of not being hit at all of course.

Their insurance is almost certain to pay up as there is no real prospect of success in establishing blame on your part - and they will have insurance. It's not even worth their while to oppose the claim because they won't have NCB on individual vehicles or the fleet, just a more or less predictable level of accidents. They can also recover any excess to be paid from the renter.

You will need to declare the accident on your new policy, but it won't push the premium up by more than a trivial amount and, as it won't be your fault, you'll keep your NCB.
Prang-how to convince insurers? - DavidHM
Oh and it can't do any harm to tag on the expense of the AutoTrader ad to your claim, as long as you have a receipt. Likewise the cost of a courtesy car.

Value my car