Steering wheels - Andrew-T

Since the disappearance of the Allegro's 'quartic' wheels of the 1960s, I believe nearly all cars have been fitted with circular ones. Why are the 'centres' (where they are attached to the column) often inaccurately centred? I bet that when you turn your wheel lock-to-lock you will find the rim moves up and down?

It can't be difficult to achieve. Or doesn't it matter?

Steering wheels - gordonbennet

Correct centering its one of my several OCD's, i also like a wheel to be perfectly aligned in the straight ahead position, can be doing with 10 to 2 wheels.

The old MB is perfectly centred, the wheel itself is half leather half wood not too thick or thin, something just right about feeding that wheel through your hands feeling the materials change as you make turns, long fast bends are a pleasure.

Most lorry wheels have been well centred too, which is just as well as when i started lorry driving my first artics didn't have power steering, so given there was about 5 turns lock to lock, in tight spots it was case of one foot braced against the steel dash (well what passed for a dash) and haul the huge wheel through hand over hand like a ships anchor.

Steering wheels - Sofa Spud

Although the 'quartic' steering wheel of the Allegro was ridculous and impractical, it was ahead of it's time as it's not unusual to see expensive performance cars with non-circular steering wheels these days - it seems fashionable to have a flattened bit on the wheel, which to my mind must be as annoying as the Allegro's original squarish wheel, that was dropped after a year or two. But a contemporary of the Allegro also had a non-round steering wheel - I mean the Ford Cortina Mk 3, which had a slightly oval wheel.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 15/11/2013 at 09:45

Steering wheels - RT

The off-centring is to allow the steering column to be offset to one side of centre from the drivers' seat.

The steering column can be a major design issue - it has to be safe, transmit feel between tyres and steering wheel - and miss all the other components on it's way from driver to the wheels.

Steering wheels - Andrew-T

The off-centring is to allow the steering column to be offset to one side of centre from the drivers' seat.

I realise that the column can be offset from the seating position. But I don't think I expressed my original query clearly enough.

Most steering wheels are circular (or perhaps they aren't?). On many cars the wheel is attached slightly off-centre to the column, so that as the wheel turns the rim moves eccentrically. I don't see how this is helpful, so I presume it is unintentional? Today's wheels are moulded plastic and it would seem sensible to put the boss in the exact centre? Perhaps the inclusion of airbags makes that difficult?

Steering wheels - mike hannon

I had (briefly) an Allegro with a quartic steering wheel - it was about the only good thing about the car.

I also had several Rover SD1s with quartic steering wheels, which I also found to be a good thing.

My XJS has a half wood and half leather-covered steering wheel, which I find to be pointless and an embarrassment to look at. If it wasn't for the airbag it would be gone tomorrow.

Steering wheels - Bromptonaut

If the rim is eccentric then it must be by design. My suggestion is that the effect is to increase clearance between bottom of disc and knees with wheel dead ahead. Purpose would be to increase knee space when entering and leaving.

Steering wheels - Andrew-T

If the rim is eccentric then it must be by design. My suggestion is that the effect is to increase clearance between bottom of disc and knees with wheel dead ahead. Purpose would be to increase knee space when entering and leaving.

Just maybe, I suppose. But would a centimetre or less be worth it? I don't have enough cars to make a generalisation, but the effect is usually noticeable on TV when anyone steers quickly.

Steering wheels - doctorchris

I understand what you mean. If you were to jack up both front wheels and move them from lock to lock, the rapidly spinning steering wheel would rotate a little eccentrically.

I suspect this is because the steering wheel does not need to be perfectly engineered and it would be too expensive to do this on a mass-produced car.

It appears that a standard steering wheel is constructed from an aluminium rim with polyurethane foam moulded onto it. Although the rim could be almost a perfect circle, it would be very difficult to ensure the same for the foam.

Steering wheels - bathtub tom

I suspect it's all down to accepted tolerances and what the customer will notice.

I've jacked up the front of my car and spun the wheel since this thread (I'm retired and got the time). It ain't round!

I've never noticed before and it's never bothered me. Perhaps it will now, damnit!

Like I said, there's probably an acceptable tolerance and the things will be made to lowest cost within that tolerance.

Perhaps only the most severe forms of OCD will notice such things? ;>)

Steering wheels - Andrew-T

I've never noticed before and it's never bothered me. Perhaps it will now, damnit!

Perhaps only the most severe forms of OCD will notice such things? ;>)

That's just it - one doesn't notice it while driving, but it usually seems to be there on TV, as I said. I thought if the eccentricity was enough, it might be noticeable if you let the wheel spin back to straight-ahead.

That's really something, to jack the car up and try it ....

Steering wheels - bathtub tom

That's really something, to jack the car up and try it ....

And how many will try it this weekend?

Steering wheels - dan86

Iv got far to much to do to see if my steering wheel is perfectly round all I know it is two turns each way for full lock.

Steering wheels - Andrew-T
And how many will try it this weekend?

With caution - I seem to remember being warned not to shove the road wheels round too hard, to avoid damaging the rack ....

Steering wheels - thunderbird

Since the disappearance of the Allegro's 'quartic' wheels of the 1960s,

History lesson.

British Leyalnd produced the Allegro from 1973 to 1983, that is not the 1960's.

When I was learing to drive in the early 1970's dad had a Mk3 Cortina which had a steering wheel with a slightly flattened bottom part, the idea according to the brochure was to make getting in and out easier, only worked if you parked with the bottom part down. When driving the car you did not notice it was not round.

Been loking at some new cars recently, some of the "sporty" variants appear to have a flat bit at the bottom but its only a stylists idea,does nothing in reality.

A round wheel works fine, has done for millenia, why re invent it.

Steering wheels - RT

That's really something, to jack the car up and try it ....

And how many will try it this weekend?

You don't need to jack the car up - start the engine to get the power assistance working and then go from lock-to-lock.

The only cars I've ever had with round steering wheels have been those I've fitted an after-market wheel to - and they showed up the column offset very noticeably because it's off-centre from the driver's seat.

Steering wheels - bathtub tom

>> start the engine to get the power assistance working and then go from lock-to-lock.

And scrub a flat spot on your tyres.

If enough people do this, I wonder how many breakages of steering components will happen?

Steering wheels - Wackyracer

I once saw a lorry break a track rod end from the track rod when it was being 'dry-steered' by a driver trying to get it on a bay.

Dry steering is one of my pet hates.

Steering wheels - gordonbennet

I once saw a lorry break a track rod end from the track rod when it was being 'dry-steered' by a driver trying to get it on a bay.

Dry steering is one of my pet hates.

Makes you shudder, the thing must have been on its last legs to do that, could easily have given way hitting a pot hole or cats eye by the sounds of it.

Driving old lorries without power steering sharpened up your manoeuvering, no dry steering unless you were Superman.

Steering wheels - Wackyracer

I once saw a lorry break a track rod end from the track rod when it was being 'dry-steered' by a driver trying to get it on a bay.

Dry steering is one of my pet hates.

Makes you shudder, the thing must have been on its last legs to do that, could easily have given way hitting a pot hole or cats eye by the sounds of it.

Driving old lorries without power steering sharpened up your manoeuvering, no dry steering unless you were Superman.

We used to have a Volvo FL10 that caught me out when the power steering failed doing a left turn at a tight roundabout.

Steering wheels - dan86

I know that one I brought Blackheath to a standstill when the power stwaring of my Mercedes lorry went half way through a left turn acros two lanes of traffic it took three of us to wrestle the wheel to move the truck out of the way.

Steering wheels - gordonbennet

We used to have a Volvo FL10 that caught me out when the power steering failed doing a left turn at a tight roundabout.

As Wackyracer knows all too well the Volvo lorry steering was not designed for unassisted use, ridiculously heavy.

A short story, one of my old mates was in a fully loaded FL10 transporter and the power steering died at Toddington, he managed to deliver the cars to Coventry centre and wrestle it into the Volvo lorry workshops at Cov Apt...

His then gaffer left him there (having saved probably £500+ on towing) until i (not same employer) came past about 4 hours later and collected him, only 35 miles away from base, gaffer could and should have nipped up and collected him, but like others he thought A1 staff grew on trees.

Some employers do not realise the gems they have and do not deserve and their business fate is predictable, other employers would give their eye teeth for such.

Steering wheels - Wackyracer

We used to have our own garage onsite due to it being a large company, When that fleet of FL10's got old they were always breaking down and the chances of getting the garage to come out was next to zero. I could write a book on road side repairs using cable ties, String, Tape and anything you could find to effect a repair.

They used to have a solenoid type air valve just by the cat walk and the contacts in the plug used to rot away, I still remember it failing on clapham common mid afternoon. So I stuck on the hazards, Call garage on phone, Just in time for an unmarked plod to pull up and start giving me a lecture about I can't stop here making phone calls.

I don't think we had a single FL10 on the fleet that had fully working instruments, The needles just shot around all over the place on the auxillary instruments.

Steering wheels - RT

>> start the engine to get the power assistance working and then go from lock-to-lock.

And scrub a flat spot on your tyres.

If enough people do this, I wonder how many breakages of steering components will happen?

Are modern cars that fragile that just doing lock-to-lock once will cause breakages?

How on earth do you manoeuvre in confined spaces?

Steering wheels - madf

Are modern cars that fragile that just doing lock-to-lock once will cause breakages?

How on earth do you manoeuvre in confined spaces?

Many early electric steering racks burned out their motor by going to full lock and staying there...

I drove Rover P4s and P2s - all pre power sterring - and took up weightlifting to be able to park...

Edited by madf on 16/11/2013 at 14:11

Steering wheels - Ben79

How on earth do you manoeuvre in confined spaces?

You're supposed to roll very slowly when turning the wheel. Slower than walking pace. You should be able to feel and hear the difference compared to being stationary.

Steering wheels - gordonbennet

How on earth do you manoeuvre in confined spaces?

You're supposed to roll very slowly when turning the wheel. Slower than walking pace. You should be able to feel and hear the difference compared to being stationary.

Try doing that with an automated manual or DSG type box with their on/off switch clutch control.