Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Fat Eddie

Hi Everyone, just after some advice.

I have a 2015 Mazda CX-5 2.2D that has been serviced at the Mazda main dealership since ownership, the car has only done 67K and is currently a mechanical write off due to a seized engine caused by oil starvation, cost for repair £7500

The car suffered a failed turbo in Feb and was replaced by Mazda Main dealership at a cost of around £2100, and at every service I always paid for an additional engine oil flush.

I am currently battling with Mazda / Main Dealer as I feel that proper maintenance / repairs have not been carried out by the Main dealer and this has resulted in the engine failure.

Obviously neither party are interested in taking ownership or helping me.

My question is when the turbo failed and was replaced should they have removed the sump and inspected the oil pickup / strainer?

Would an engine oil flush at service been sufficient to clear any blockages in the oil system?

The main dealer haven't even bothered with responding to me and have just passed my complaint over to their legal team which seems odd to me, almost like they know they are liable but have gone on the offensive to stop me pursuing.

The legal team have said its for me to prove their liability.

Anyone else suffered similar?

Am I fighting a losing battle?

Thanks in advance.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - elekie&a/c doctor
Unfortunately these Mazda Diesel engines are notoriously problematic. Usually as a result of oil dilution during the dpf regeneration process. The failure of the turbo I think would have been the start of your issues . Turbo failure on any car is most likely to be caused by oil starvation. Certainly the sump and oil pick up and any associated pipe work should have been cleaned or replaced. Has any of this fix been carried out ? If not , then oil supply problems would cause the engine to fail .
Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - sammy1

As above. Gather all the information you can on other failures and if you can afford it an independent assessment. As you are aware you have one hell of a fight on your hands . In the short term perhaps a second hand engine but again more outlay and a confidence factor. You would expect a better response from Mazda to a loyal customer. The cost of an engine is peanuts to them even if you had to pay the dealer labour. Whose legal term are you referring to the dealers or Mazda HO which is the best place to be. The age of your car will not help your case unfortunately Best of luck.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Fat Eddie

Thanks,

Whilst I agree the Mazda engine is basically poo, my issue really is with the Main Dealer who should have not only replaced the Turbo but also check and rectified the root cause, they didnt and this caused my engine failure a few months later, so basically negligence.

The Dealer, a well known motor group passed my complain direct to their legal team.

At the end of the day I have maintained the car as advised and with no expense spared! it should not be a pile of scrap with only 67K on the clock!!

My mark IV golf is still running fine on the original engine / turbo and is at 230K

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Fat Eddie

Thanks,

When the Turbo was replaced there is no evidence that they removed, inspected or cleaned out the Sump / Oil Pickup etc, they just removed one Turbo and fitted another.

I highly suspect the Turbo failure was as a result of oil starvation and they then just replaced the failed part and didn't investigate the root cause, half a job for maximum money.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - FP

"The main dealer haven't even bothered with responding to me and have just passed my complaint over to their legal team which seems odd to me, almost like they know they are liable but have gone on the offensive to stop me pursuing.

The legal team have said its for me to prove their liability."

Sounds pretty much the standard Mazda position, which (as I understand it) is to deny any liability with regard to their diesel engine failures - which are a well-known problem, and, ultimately, a design problem which Mazda have never acknowledged.

I don't think your dealer "knows they are liable" - they are just out to get rid of you as soon as possible.

For anyone not in the know, if you go with Mazda ICE, get a petrol version.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Fat Eddie

Yes Basically organised crime groups with a tax code

Take our money, deny liability for anything and they cant be touched!!

Very sad really but its continues to happen.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Adampr

I suspect the dealer has dealt with plenty of 2.2D claims before and their standard procedure is to pass them.straight to the lawyers.

This one does seem different, in so much as you might argue that that they could reasonably expect a low mileage engine with turbo problems to be suffering from the very well-known issues that these engines have.

I would.be doing a little research into exactly how well-known the problems are and putting a case together about how the dealer has not applied that knowledge. Your claim isn't about the engine failing, it's about the dealer not telling you that you had an obvious symptom of impending failure and not doing anything to prevent it from happening.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - galileo

I suspect the dealer has dealt with plenty of 2.2D claims before and their standard procedure is to pass them.straight to the lawyers.

This one does seem different, in so much as you might argue that that they could reasonably expect a low mileage engine with turbo problems to be suffering from the very well-known issues that these engines have.

I would.be doing a little research into exactly how well-known the problems are and putting a case together about how the dealer has not applied that knowledge. Your claim isn't about the engine failing, it's about the dealer not telling you that you had an obvious symptom of impending failure and not doing anything to prevent it from happening.

67,000 miles in 8 years for a Mazda (or indeed any) diesel is not ideal usage, the dealer should have considered likely sludging and dilution of oil with diesel, once they have a customers cash, many dealers' concern for the customer tends to evaporate.

Asking a customer their likely usage and giving advice would be helpful, but as it might discourage a sale, would they care?

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Adampr

I suspect the dealer has dealt with plenty of 2.2D claims before and their standard procedure is to pass them.straight to the lawyers.

This one does seem different, in so much as you might argue that that they could reasonably expect a low mileage engine with turbo problems to be suffering from the very well-known issues that these engines have.

I would.be doing a little research into exactly how well-known the problems are and putting a case together about how the dealer has not applied that knowledge. Your claim isn't about the engine failing, it's about the dealer not telling you that you had an obvious symptom of impending failure and not doing anything to prevent it from happening.

67,000 miles in 8 years for a Mazda (or indeed any) diesel is not ideal usage, the dealer should have considered likely sludging and dilution of oil with diesel, once they have a customers cash, many dealers' concern for the customer tends to evaporate.

Asking a customer their likely usage and giving advice would be helpful, but as it might discourage a sale, would they care?

I'm talking about when the turbo was replaced. I would expect a knowledgeable service manager to give me the heads-up on why it had probably failed in the first place.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Steveieb

I’ve heard of dissatisfied customers dumping their cars on garage forecourts taking photos and sharing on Facebook.

But in two recent cases I know of , redress is possible if you are prepared for the long haul. One took seven months to resolve and another four months to agree an appropriate contribution.

Regular face to face meetings with the dealer seem to get the best results. Texts , phone calls and emails are just too easy to dismiss.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - focussed

Recap with known facts.

You have an 8 year Mazda CX5 which is worth retail 10 to 11K approx.

Regular service by same dealer etc.

That dealer replaced the turbo

6 months later the engine has seized.

Replacement/repair cost £7500

The dealer refuses to discuss the problem and you have to deal with their legal team and prove that they are liable.

Your alternatives.

Scrap the car - you lose most of the value.

Pay the £7500 and sell the car afterwards - you might get £2k back

Fit a scrapyard motor at an independent garage - not an attractive prospect.

As you have been fobbed off by the dealer and forced to deal with their legal team, get a solicitor on the case, the fact that the dealer has forced you to deal with their legal team without discussing or negotiating with the dealer's staff isn't going to improve their case if/when it goes to a small claims court.

Cost of a solicitor - £2 to £4K if it goes to court you may get that back and you should have a saleable car.

(Note from personal experience - Check your house insurance - do you have legal protection? They may pay for your legal representation)

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - gordonbennet

Another Mazda Diesel engine failure.

After the turbo failure i would have expected the sump to be removed for oil pick up inspection, or if of a suitable design to be inpected via camera throughthe sump drain hole..

Do you know at this point that a blocked oil pick up strainer is the issue leading to failure? has anyone removed or stripped the engine down to discover the reason for failure?

It all depends on whats gone wrong, if its heavy carbon build up that has blocked the oil pick up strainer then i believe all the flushing oil in the world won't shift it, its got to be cleaned manually, but why is the strainer blocked (if thats the reason), could the engine have a failing injector seal allowing compression blow by, this is a big problem with some modern Diesels, it didn't affect Diesels of old with injectors fitted from the oustside like spark plugs, you would see such leaks and even if ignored the engine would come to little harm.

If it is a blocked oil pick up it might be interesting to whip the rocker cover off and see what the state of things are re the injectors, it will be pretty obvious if injector blow by is a contributory cause here.

The reason for more frequent oil changes, why some of us here give some car makers ideas of long life servicing a healthy ignoring, is not that modern oils don't last, its to remove the nasties that build up in the oil (thankyou EGR) and cause serious issues, truck engines have oil spinners that remove much of the carbon build up hence why heavy trucks can go 100k kms between oil changes.

Finally, you can only expect Toyota standards of customer care and responsibility (and pride where due) in their product from Toyota.

Edited by gordonbennet on 07/08/2023 at 07:52

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - sammy1

""""Finally, you can only expect Toyota standards of customer care and responsibility (and pride where due) in their product from Toyota.""

I have never owned a Toyota Car so no experience of their customer care There relatively new guarantee on continued service is praiseworthy but again the customer is really paying for an insurance policy built into the cost. Outside of this may be the OP would face the same set of problems on an 8 year old car. Car ownership is a bit of a gamble, you do your best to look after your car but for the odd few disaster strikes.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Engineer Andy

Another Mazda Diesel engine failure.

After the turbo failure i would have expected the sump to be removed for oil pick up inspection, or if of a suitable design to be inpected via camera throughthe sump drain hole..

Do you know at this point that a blocked oil pick up strainer is the issue leading to failure? has anyone removed or stripped the engine down to discover the reason for failure?

It all depends on whats gone wrong, if its heavy carbon build up that has blocked the oil pick up strainer then i believe all the flushing oil in the world won't shift it, its got to be cleaned manually, but why is the strainer blocked (if thats the reason), could the engine have a failing injector seal allowing compression blow by, this is a big problem with some modern Diesels, it didn't affect Diesels of old with injectors fitted from the oustside like spark plugs, you would see such leaks and even if ignored the engine would come to little harm.

If it is a blocked oil pick up it might be interesting to whip the rocker cover off and see what the state of things are re the injectors, it will be pretty obvious if injector blow by is a contributory cause here.

The reason for more frequent oil changes, why some of us here give some car makers ideas of long life servicing a healthy ignoring, is not that modern oils don't last, its to remove the nasties that build up in the oil (thankyou EGR) and cause serious issues, truck engines have oil spinners that remove much of the carbon build up hence why heavy trucks can go 100k kms between oil changes.

Finally, you can only expect Toyota standards of customer care and responsibility (and pride where due) in their product from Toyota.

IMHO and personal experience owning a (petrol) Mazda car for 17+ years and from reading experiences from other owners on here and owners' forums, post-sales, Mazda are very much hit and miss as regards customer service at their franchised main dealers. Mine has generally been decent to me, but on occasion they have not done such a good job on the customer service front. I know of one person who used it in the past and had a terrible time.

In addition, that Mazda UK, as FP says, aren't very helpful in many circumstances, though some improvement in customer service from them has been made from what I hear, but seemingly not anywhere near enough.

Owning a petrol (non rotary-engined) car, makes the post-sales experience so much better, because they are seemingly far more reliable. In particular, the port-injected type engines.

The newer direct injection and latest HCCI engines have suffered from a few issues, but not that much - issues with newer cars, as with most cars (of preactically any make) these days are with electrical and controls systems, due to the sheer number of gadgets and gizmos they have. It's how the dealerships and UK Head Office deal with such things that makes the difference between a good make and a not so good one.

It's also the reason why I:

a) concur that buying a modern diesel for the most part is a risk second hand, unless you 100% know its ownership history and that includes how it was driven - as in long trips or short ones from cold predominantly, DPF problems, oil changes, etc, etc, and;

b) would not buy a car which has brand new tech in it that plays a significant role in the car's normal use, e.g. the engine design. I would wait until the tech has been in operation for a good 2-4 years (especially fundamentally new designs) before even thinking about buying a car with it in.

It means that any flaws either become apparent and are fixed or aren't (for various reasons) and the decision makes itself.

A brand new Mazda diesel may be fine if used and maintained properly, i.e. longer distances and regular oil changes, maybe more than usual depending on use.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - sammy1

""The dealer refuses to discuss the problem and you have to deal with their legal team and prove that they are liable."""

A vey good summary of the options. No mention of the Mazda head Office. Surely this dealer is bringing the Mazda name into disrepute. The dealer may in law be responsible but Mazda must have some responsibility in the marketing and how the dealer operates. This attitude from only one dealer says never buy a Mazda product. The consumer cannot really win in these circumstances. Time and time again it is demonstrated that he has not the time or expertise to fight these things let alone the cash.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - FP

"No mention of the Mazda head Office. Surely this dealer is bringing the Mazda name into disrepute. The dealer may in law be responsible but Mazda must have some responsibility in the marketing and how the dealer operates."

As mentioned above, Mazda themselves have a reputation for refusing to entertain any disputes about diesel failures.

As for bringing the brand into disrepute, those who know (like people on this forum) already know the deal and steer clear of Mazda diesels. Their petrol engines have a great reputation for reliability.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - badbusdriver

For the OP, you might want to get in touch with Hagan's Auto's in Northern Ireland (hagansautos.co.uk)

They are specialists in reconditioning the Mazda 2.2 diesel. Advertised prices are from £3.5k including transport.

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Metropolis.
This is a good shout, I would do so and then sell sell sell!
Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Fat Eddie

Well I am still Battling.

Surprise Surprise Mazda and the Dealer have collaborated and the dealers insurers have claimed no evidence supports my claim.

I now have to wait for the ombudsman to hear my case and then its over to my legal assistance via my insurance.

In the mean time I have started a petition on change.org to see if somehow Mazda can be held accountable for these diabolical and unfit engines.

Anyone who wishes to sign the petition please feel free

chng.it/pYYY4SjbtJ

Thanks everyone

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - Steveieb

Surely the word must have got around by now about the problems with these engines?

Are dealers willing to take them in part exchange ?

Mazda CX-5 - Seized Engine - FP

Well, the word has certainly got around this forum. We have been warning people about potential issues with Mazda diesels for many years.

Looking at Autotrader for used cars, if you rank the results in price order, the cheapest CX-5s are diesels. So no doubt dealers are fully aware of the Mazda-diesel issue.

In fairness, it should be pointed out that, even with the possibly problematic nature of Mazda diesels, there must be many, perhaps even the majority, of examples which have given no trouble.

Perhaps Mazda diesels are more sensitive to excessive short journeys than other makes. The trouble with buying one of these second-hand is that the buyer will not know whether the car they're interested in has done a lot of short journeys.

Edited by FP on 29/09/2023 at 17:24