Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait?

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 16:43
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

I've got a 12 plate Renault grand scenic 1.6 dci, 85000 miles.

Normally I wouldn't have kept a car so long, but I've owned it 7 years now. I was looking to replace last year but the prices rocketed and have been the same or worse since.

Basically it's starting to get more issues. A few weeks ago the rear passenger side brake caliper was stuck on and I couldn't get it off the driveway. This was the final straw for me at the time and I vowed to get rid.

The fault was one of the cables to the caliper had snapped (EPB). I've cut it off, repaired it with much thicker grade cable to be able to help with longevity.

Due to issues like this I'm starting to worry about the bigger bills that may be incoming such as clutch and DMF.

I've got more of a sensible head on since looking at current pricing of cars. I test drove the new qashqai and enjoyed it, but it's alot of money. I test drove a 1.6 turbo petrol Sportage and then a 1.7 diesel sportage. The petrol was abysmal, the diesel was nice to drive. However, this makes me worry for the future of diesels as we all know the government doesn't like them. The pricing seems more reasonable on them with the remaining warranty of 3-3.5 years on a 68 plate. But still, it's £17000. I will be lucky to get £4000 for my current car so it's still big expenditure.

The car has had issues with the exhaust sensor, the turbo having stick veins causing overboost and a burst pipe. It's also has issues with the water ingress known in these Renault's behind the scuttle panel which I ensure I clean now. The parking brake cable snapped, the window regulator passenger side needed replacement along with the anti Syphon plastic piece stopping me from fuelling up at pumps (pump knocking off unless trickled in).

Overall I'm just losing confidence in the car, but I'm afraid to move in to a different vehicle too. A well priced petrol replacement would be ideal, but if I can hold off for prices to drop I would like to do that also.

Can anyone advise when the "big bills" generally start rolling in for my car in question? Obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing but I feel like I'm playing with fire. We no longer require such a big vehicle, so can downsize to something with a 450 to 500 litre boot, but no matter what I do I seem to be playing with an extra 12 grand.

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 17:50
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - badbusdriver

Can anyone advise when the "big bills" generally start rolling in for my car in question?

Simple answer is no. This would be one of those, "How long is a piece of string?" questions.

Difficult to offer any suggestions without a budget. Assuming the Scenic to have a £4k trade in value (and given you don't seem keen to drop £12k on top of that), what are you looking to spend?.

Also, you say you don't need such a big car, but the Sportage is only around 9cm shorter than a Grand Scenic so isn't going to free up much space on the drive!. The new Qashqai is a little shorter again, but still only 15cm shorter than your current car.

We'd also need to know a bit more about likes and dislikes, specifically because of your comments on the petrol vs diesel Sportage. What was wrong with the petrol to make it abysmal?. Being a 1.6 turbo, it was probably in a more overtly sporty trim and so may well have had stiffer suspension. But other than that (and having a lot more power), I wouldn't have expected the petrol to drive much different to the diesel. I could understand it if it was the n/a petrol (1.6 GDI), which would feel much weaker than the diesel due to having less torque at much higher revs.

Edited by badbusdriver on 03/04/2022 at 17:51

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 19:02
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

Thank you for your response. With regards to the downsizing I mean we don't need a 7 seater anymore, so more able to have any car really with a large enough boot to be able to take suitcases to go away etc (family of 4). I know the Sportage was probably a similar size, but it was mainly the boot capacity, warranty and the value that made us look in to them.

The petrol Sportage didn't disappoint in terms of power, it was the fuel economy vs the diesel. The standard 1.6 gdi is very poor in terms of power for the weight of the vehicle so this wasn't an option either.

I suppose I'm just in a situation really where I would like some reassurance from somebody regarding either keeping it or if someone can advise a replacement at a decent cost (total cost up to £17k) whilst being reliable, good on fuel and petrol (rather than diesel).

I looked in to the seat ateca which seems to tick the boxes with the 1.4/1.5tsi engine but I'm unsure of how they are reliability wise especially with a 68 plate which would be out of VAG group standard warranty.

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 19:15
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - daveyK_UK
I would sell your car while prices are still high but I wouldn’t touch a diesel sportage, it will be worth next to nothing in a few years time.

The sportage is popular but nothing special in my experience.

The 7 year warranty is the big selling point.

Do you want a SUV style car or another MPV style car or a mix of both?

If you want a mix of both I would buy a new Dacia Jogger on a PCP and extend the warranty to 4 or 5 years (however long you wish to have the PCP for).
The prices to extend with Dacia are a bargain compared to other manufacturers

www.dacia.co.uk/warranty-and-assistance/warranty.h...l

In 3/4/5 years time when the PCP is up, if you fancy a change you hand it back. If you like it you can buy out the remainder.
Plus in 3/4/5 years time non electric cars may have devalued further so it may put you in a better position to return the car even if you like it.
Likewise in 3/4/5 years time electric cars may still be problematic to live with and petrol cars are holding their value and you choose to keep it.
Your personal circumstances be it financial or size of vehicle may also have changed.
Either way if puts you in control in a few years time and gives you some protection from a changing market place.

I went to see a Dacia Jogger last week in the dealership, I was impressed. It will be similar to your Scenic in some ways.

£14995 or more for a higher trim level.
7 seats as well but the beauty is the 3rd row of seats can be completely removed which turns it into a 5 seater with a giant boot.
The dealer said the PCP deal they are doing for the middle trim model which is called Comfort is £197 down and £197 a month.
They are all 1.0 turbo petrol engines., good on fuel.
Order now, delivery by end of June/start of July.

Edited by daveyK_UK on 03/04/2022 at 19:18

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 19:31
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987
I would sell your car while prices are still high but I wouldn’t touch a diesel sportage, it will be worth next to nothing in a few years time. The sportage is popular but nothing special in my experience. The 7 year warranty is the big selling point. Do you want a SUV style car or another MPV style car or a mix of both? If you want a mix of both I would buy a new Dacia Jogger on a PCP and extend the warranty to 4 or 5 years (however long you wish to have the PCP for). The prices to extend with Dacia are a bargain compared to other manufacturers www.dacia.co.uk/warranty-and-assistance/warranty.h...l In 3/4/5 years time when the PCP is up, if you fancy a change you hand it back. If you like it you can buy out the remainder. Plus in 3/4/5 years time non electric cars may have devalued further so it may put you in a better position to return the car even if you like it. Likewise in 3/4/5 years time electric cars may still be problematic to live with and petrol cars are holding their value and you choose to keep it. Your personal circumstances be it financial or size of vehicle may also have changed. Either way if puts you in control in a few years time and gives you some protection from a changing market place. I went to see a Dacia Jogger last week in the dealership, I was impressed. It will be similar to your Scenic in some ways. £14995 or more for a higher trim level. 7 seats as well but the beauty is the 3rd row of seats can be completely removed which turns it into a 5 seater with a giant boot. The dealer said the PCP deal they are doing for the middle trim model which is called Comfort is £197 down and £197 a month. They are all 1.0 turbo petrol engines., good on fuel. Order now, delivery by end of June/start of July.

Thank you! I had originally thought about the Jogger (before they were even in showrooms) but I decided to look for something else because of the 1 litre engine and sportier SUV's available.

How is the 1 litre petrol to drive? I may be a bit ignorant with regards to PCP deals as I do always buy my cars in cash. Why would it be better to take out the PCP rather than buy then sell in 3 years? Would this be better than the depreciation it would receive?

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 19:40
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - daveyK_UK
This is purely my opinion of the car market but I do think for medium and large size cars in 3/4/5 years time electrics may be more widespread and desirable and in turn petrol models may devalue faster,

The beauty of a PCP you have a guaranteed future value so if it’s worth more, great you pay the money and have a car worth more.

If it’s worth less than the guaranteed value then you hand it back, the dealer takes the hit.

Of course you pay interest on your PCP and I think Dacia as a manufacturer do a 5,9% across the board.

This is only my opinion, I might be wrong, I often get things wrong.

Cash is great if you have access to it and with Rishi Sunak printing so much money helping to spike up inflation, it’s far better spent or invested than sat in low interest savings accounts where it’s actually losing value.

At the end of the day, if I was buying a new medium or large vehicle I would PCP.
If I was buying a small car I would buy with cash as I think small car petrol engines will be around long past 2030 and the values will hold up.

But seriously don’t buy a diesel even one with a good manufacturer warranty unless your doing big miles (30,000 plus a year) or your getting a considerable discount.

And sell the scenic within the next 9 months, some big bills are likely if so far you haven’t had to change the clutch or suffered from DPF issues.
Does your car have a DPF being a 2012 model?
In fairness to the scenic, the 1.5 diesel is one of the best Diesel engines on the market, but like any car clutches wear out and DPFs eventually wear out.
The 1.6 diesel can be a pig.

Edited by daveyK_UK on 03/04/2022 at 19:46

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 19:59
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

Tremendous advice and I will take everything on board. I really appreciate everything you have said.

I completely appreciate nobody has hindsight so I suppose the choice is on me whether or not to go PCP or cash. My partner has higher rate PIP so entitled to motability so will also see whether they have the jogger as a decent monthly payment also. This would also include insurance, tyres, servicing and tax. Just add fuel.

I think it's time to take a test drive and see how I feel about the car.

My current grand scenic is indeed a 1.6 dci (chain driven r9m) diesel on its original clutch and dpf.

Edited by Solus987 on 03/04/2022 at 20:00

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 20:20
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - badbusdriver

My partner has higher rate PIP so entitled to motability so will also see whether they have the jogger as a decent monthly payment also.

That isn't how it works. All the cars fall into the monthly allowance, the only question is how much advance payment are you willing to pay.

Utterly baffled as to why you'd even consider buying something if your partner is entitled to a Motability car?!

Motability prices/deals are updated quarterly but the Jogger is not on it. However you can get into a Duster (445 litre boot capacity) with the 130bhp 1.3 turbo for a £1495 advance payment.

You can also get into a Qashqai with (presumably) the same 1.3 turbo engine for £1299 advance payment.

£2749 to get into the Ateca though

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 20:26
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - daveyK_UK
You can’t beat a test drive, I would do one in whatever car you are buying before purchasing
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Sun 3 Apr 2022 20:55
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

My partner has higher rate PIP so entitled to motability so will also see whether they have the jogger as a decent monthly payment also.

That isn't how it works. All the cars fall into the monthly allowance, the only question is how much advance payment are you willing to pay.

Utterly baffled as to why you'd even consider buying something if your partner is entitled to a Motability car?!

Motability prices/deals are updated quarterly but the Jogger is not on it. However you can get into a Duster (445 litre boot capacity) with the 130bhp 1.3 turbo for a £1495 advance payment.

You can also get into a Qashqai with (presumably) the same 1.3 turbo engine for £1299 advance payment.

£2749 to get into the Ateca though

Sorry yes, I meant the upfront payment. Which obviously gets added to the cost no matter which way you look at it.

Take the qashqai for example:

Qashqai motability:

£62.55 per week

Plus £2500.

£9757.80

Plus £2500

= 12257.80

Buying:

Insurance £310 per year.

Tax £155 per year.

Tyres £150 per year.

£360 per year servicing.

£2925 upkeep

Depreciation

£8575

£11500 total cost.

So it still seems cheaper to buy, or am I completely wrong?

All of the above is based on the n-connecta trim. You may feel the advance payment is the only payment here but obviously the £62.55 a week would otherwise be in her bank and going towards other things. It's not free.

All of the above worked out over 3 years.

Edited by Solus987 on 03/04/2022 at 21:00

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 21:05
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - badbusdriver

Even going by your figures the difference is only £750, but as I said, the advance payment on a new Qashqai is £1299. Which makes the Motability car just under £11k.

But there are deals, that is why the prices change quarterly. You could find something suitable for no advance payment.

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Sun 3 Apr 2022 21:42
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

Even going by your figures the difference is only £750, but as I said, the advance payment on a new Qashqai is £1299. Which makes the Motability car just under £11k.

But there are deals, that is why the prices change quarterly. You could find something suitable for no advance payment.

I've always bought used. For example, I bought our current grand scenic for £9400 back in 2015. Add the repairs, servicing, tax, mot consumables like tyres and it's still nowhere near £11000 every 3 years because I have kept it for 7 years.

I suppose this is where the market has shifted, I can no longer get a 3 year old vehicle that would suit us for ~10k so I am now forced to the realms of the new car in which I agree motability does seem a no brainer as it keeps the cash in the bank for other things such as holidays.

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Mon 4 Apr 2022 08:03
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - badbusdriver

I've always bought used. For example, I bought our current grand scenic for £9400 back in 2015. Add the repairs, servicing, tax, mot consumables like tyres and it's still nowhere near £11000 every 3 years because I have kept it for 7 years.

Basically then, what you are relying (certainly re the current car) on is luck. Luck that, if choosing a car not known to be reliable, with a diesel engine not known known as the most reliable available in that car, that it isn't going to fail spectacularly and completely wipe out your perceived savings.

You say you can manage with a 450 litre boot (as a family of four, we have managed fine with a boot as small as half that), so you could probably manage with a 410 litre boot. The Citroen C3 Aircross and Hyundai Bayon are both available for no advance payment. The Vauxhall Crossland (also 410 litres) is available from £999.

My wife gets a Motability car and that is what she has had since 1999. During that time, we have always gone for a car with no advance payment because we have always found something suitable.

I have also considered over the years that we might be better off coming out of Motability and just getting the money instead. But it is my wife's entitlement, so ultimately her decision.

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Mon 11 Apr 2022 09:39
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Andrew-T

I completely appreciate nobody has hindsight ....

Everyone has plenty of that !! Foresight is in very short supply, especially just now. :-(

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Mon 4 Apr 2022 07:35
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - barney100

It's an issue many of us have. I try to hang on now for as long as possible as there is no guarantee that a new vehicle would be perfect, maybe get a years warranty which has much small print then you are back to square one and a good few ££££s down

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Mon 4 Apr 2022 08:55
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Alby Back
I’ve made the mistake of thinking I could manage with a smaller car. Suffice it to say I’ve regretted that, while never having been disappointed by buying a bigger one. Quarts and pint pots etc.
;-)
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Mon 4 Apr 2022 09:19
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - badbusdriver
I’ve made the mistake of thinking I could manage with a smaller car. Suffice it to say I’ve regretted that, while never having been disappointed by buying a bigger one. Quarts and pint pots etc. ;-)

There is a very important difference between buying a car smaller than you need and buying a car no bigger than you need.

If asked, I'd always suggest someone choose the latter, but never the former.

During the last 23 years of Motability cars, the ones I have enjoyed least were the two biggest. But I have no doubt that if the AGS gearbox on our Suzuki Ignis was good, it would be right up at the top.

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Mon 4 Apr 2022 09:13
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - John F

A seven year old car at 85,000 miles is only half way through its life, but will have done most of its depreciation. Any 'big bill' is unlikely to exceed a year or two's depreciation of its newer replacement. The problems the OP has described are mere niggles, but often enough for the heart to overrule the head, especially when a few appear at the same time.

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Mon 4 Apr 2022 19:24
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

A seven year old car at 85,000 miles is only half way through its life, but will have done most of its depreciation. Any 'big bill' is unlikely to exceed a year or two's depreciation of its newer replacement. The problems the OP has described are mere niggles, but often enough for the heart to overrule the head, especially when a few appear at the same time.

Hi, thank you for your response.

The car is actually 10 years old, I have just owned it for 7 years.

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Tue 5 Apr 2022 10:06
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - John F

A seven year old car at 85,000 miles is only half way through its life, but will have done most of its depreciation. Any 'big bill' is unlikely to exceed a year or two's depreciation of its newer replacement.

Hi, thank you for your response. The car is actually 10 years old, I have just owned it for 7 years.

In that case, the financial argument for keeping it is greater. If you only do seven or eight thousand miles a year for the next ten years and keep corrosion at bay, it will match our family Focus which has done over 161,000 miles and is over twenty one years old. It has cost £100 worth of welding on two occasions to pass a couple of MoTs when it was a teenager - well worth it.

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Tue 5 Apr 2022 10:35
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - badbusdriver

In that case, the financial argument for keeping it is greater. If you only do seven or eight thousand miles a year for the next ten years and keep corrosion at bay, it will match our family Focus which has done over 161,000 miles and is over twenty one years old. It has cost £100 worth of welding on two occasions to pass a couple of MoTs when it was a teenager - well worth it.

It really isn't John. Maybe if the OP was a mechanic, or if the car he had was a n/a petrol engined Ford C-Max, Mazda 5, Toyota Verso or Honda FRV. But otherwise no.

We are not talking about a mechanically simple, n/a petrol engined version of an inherently reliable car (like MK1 Focus), or a mechanically simple n/a petrol engined classic coupe (like a TR7), or a very complex but (in theory) very well built executive barge (like an A8).

This is a car from a make not known for reliability, with a complex modern turbo diesel engine (with all that entails re emissions equipment) which, by itself, is not known to be especially reliable (unlike the 1.5DCI).

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Sun 10 Apr 2022 23:28
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

Just thought I would update you all.

We have decided to go ahead with motability on an MG ZS EV.

They're paying for the charger, obviously all the running of the vehicle is covered and hopefully we should save on fuel too over the 3 years. £299 upfront payment for the trophy edition.

Hopefully range anxiety won't kick in

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Mon 11 Apr 2022 11:40
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - John F

Just thought I would update you all.

We have decided to go ahead with motability on an MG ZS EV...... £299 upfront payment for the trophy edition.

Hopefully range anxiety won't kick in

Thanks for the update. Never mind range anxiety, what about wallet stress? If on a PCP, I reckon that'll be north of £3000 a year for three years....and then you won't even own it! Yer pays yer money 'n teks yer choice.

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Mon 11 Apr 2022 13:17
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - alan1302

Just thought I would update you all.

We have decided to go ahead with motability on an MG ZS EV...... £299 upfront payment for the trophy edition.

Hopefully range anxiety won't kick in

Thanks for the update. Never mind range anxiety, what about wallet stress? If on a PCP, I reckon that'll be north of £3000 a year for three years....and then you won't even own it! Yer pays yer money 'n teks yer choice.

It's on Motability so all servicing/breakdown/windscreens/tyres are taken care of - can be very good for a lot of people as they don't need to think about a 'what if' should the car have any issues.

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Mon 11 Apr 2022 22:44
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

Just thought I would update you all.

We have decided to go ahead with motability on an MG ZS EV...... £299 upfront payment for the trophy edition.

Hopefully range anxiety won't kick in

Thanks for the update. Never mind range anxiety, what about wallet stress? If on a PCP, I reckon that'll be north of £3000 a year for three years....and then you won't even own it! Yer pays yer money 'n teks yer choice.

I worked it out as the following:

Motability (insurance, tax, servicing, tyres, repairs and even a free electric charger fitted to my home worth £700):

£299 + £62.55 per week = £10049 for 3 years.

Cost of ownership over 3 years:

Depreciation: say £1500 per year on a newish vehicle (that's being generous). Possibly much more in the current high priced climate. £4500.

Tax: average of £155pa on a petrol vehicle. £465

Mot: £40pa. £120.

Insurance: £300pa. £900.

Tyres: £150 per year. £450.

Servicing: £200pa. £600.

Savings using electric vehicle over diesel (in my scenario 8000 miles pa). £800pa. £2400.

Repairs: ???? Not even adding this on.

Total cost of ownership over 3 years = £9435.

With possible repair costs on top why bother? I get a free charger and a brand new electric vehicle to drive without any worries. I can also spend what's in the bank on holidays. Seems a no brainer to me.

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Wed 18 May 2022 23:29
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

I ended up cancelling the motability car.

Main reasons that put me off is there is a widespread issue with the ZS EV being bricked on rapid chargers.

I cannot risk that happening. If this was an isolated incident I could ignore it but it is widespread.

The Mazda CX5 is top of my list at the moment as a used vehicle, however I'm going to bide my time and hope things start to drop in price during this cost of living crisis.

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Thu 19 May 2022 05:48
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - badbusdriver

I ended up cancelling the motability car.

Main reasons that put me off is there is a widespread issue with the ZS EV being bricked on rapid chargers.

I cannot risk that happening. If this was an isolated incident I could ignore it but it is widespread.

The Mazda CX5 is top of my list at the moment as a used vehicle, however I'm going to bide my time and hope things start to drop in price during this cost of living crisis.

There are other Motability cars available than electric ones!

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Thu 19 May 2022 11:03
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Solus987

I ended up cancelling the motability car.

Main reasons that put me off is there is a widespread issue with the ZS EV being bricked on rapid chargers.

I cannot risk that happening. If this was an isolated incident I could ignore it but it is widespread.

The Mazda CX5 is top of my list at the moment as a used vehicle, however I'm going to bide my time and hope things start to drop in price during this cost of living crisis.

There are other Motability cars available than electric ones!

Indeed they are, but my maths worked the MG ZS EV out to be a pretty okay deal vs purchasing a reliable Japanese used petrol vehicle due to the fuel savings.

Motability really is quite expensive without the fuel savings and there isn't much else that would suit what we want. I test drove the MG and it was alot of fun, shame that I would need to rely on a rapid charger to be able to go on holidays and such in the UK. Rapid chargers causing the car not to start up and need to be towed away is not what I need with 2 children on our way to a relaxing holiday.

We do around 8000 miles per year, the Mrs is dead set on an SUV though the corolla sports tourer hybrid has my eye at the moment along with the Mazda CX5 (petrol of course).

I do expect problems with a car, but I suppose being a Renault diesel at 10 years old approaching 90k miles i'm starting to get nervous about it. Couple this with the fact purchasing a new car is a nice thing and I have seen the advancements they have made I do want to replace it with something. The ancillaries / electrics are starting to become issues and wiper motors alone for these are £300 each and a common fault around this age. I simply want to get out while I would prefer petrol / hybrid for the future anyway.

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Thu 19 May 2022 09:04
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - John F

I ended up cancelling the motability car.

Very wise. Your maths confirmed my guess at how expensive they were.

......., however I'm going to bide my time and hope things start to drop in price during this cost of living crisis.

Wishful hoping! Sounds as though you are too young to remember the inflation of the 1970s. It might make more sense to save £300 a month to hedge against the 'big bills' you mentioned earlier - not sure what you had in mind. I may have missed it but I saw no mention of the annual mileage you will be expecting from your Renault. Sadly, our family Focus was scrapped last month - I think it was an ex-motability car from Ireland when we bought it at 3yrs old. It gave us 18yrs of sterling sevice with no 'big bills' and all servicing by me. I think the biggest bill was replacing the fuel pump at around 120,000 miles.

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Thu 19 May 2022 08:19
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - mcb100
I had to Google ‘being bricked’, and it’s nothing to do with fired clay house building materials. There have been some cases of ZS EV failing to power up having been on a rapid charger.
I live in Oldham - if there was a trend for lobbing bricks at a plugged in car, I’d have known about it….
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Thu 19 May 2022 10:11
Renault Grand Scenic - Replace or wait? - Brit_in_Germany

I imagine the term comes from a piece of electronic equipment being rendered inoperable so that it is as much use as a brick.

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