So true, SLO.....having been in the trade myself for some years prior to retirement (MG/ROVER/KIA) I keep an interested eye on the market locally to some extent.

..and I too am quite shocked at the condition in which some vehicles are presented for sale...both privately and at dealerships

It seems that motoring and car ownership has changed SO much..gone are the days when the vast majority of peeps actually had an interest in their cars and made at least some attempts to look after them..mechanically or cosmetically...a certain pride I guess too. (I am SO old skool now)

A car now is simply a means to get from A to B...owners/drivers seem to know...or want to know, so little about them...the workings of a vehicle are of no concern to the majority it seems and the skill and knowledge has gone....they simply get in..turn the key or press the button..and drive.!

We have a friend who drives a Mini (bought new) which is only a few years old...it is an absolute tip...inside and out..doubt it's ever had a wash and the alloys are now permanently black with brake dust....she clearly has no "connection" with the car at all other than the expectation that it will get her to where she wants to go.

I doubt she is that unusual these days.

I'm a bit surprised at this. I buy cars on PCPs, and at trade-in time the better condition the car is in, the more positive equity I've got.

And with leases, I thought the lessor examined cars at the end of the contract with a fine toothcomb and charged the lessee for any damage. Wouldn't a company lessee than recharge the driver?

If SLO's experience is typical, then this isn't happening any more, but I'm not sure why.

Maybe their repair cosmetic damage and fiddle the electronic service records to pretend their got a full main dealer service history, charge the previous 'owner' to put everything right (even though they don't) and then flog it on to the next unsuspecting customer as a car kept in prisitine condition?

Below-par workmanship seems to be quite common these days in many fields of work - in engineering (construction for me), checking your work (and preferably by a colleague who's capable and independnt of the project) is done very seldomly - time is money, so things are only checked if and when a problem arises.

At my last job, I was asked on my first day as a 'get to know us/see how good you are' exercise to read through the design of another engineer. I found numerous mistakes, and one so large that the team had to pull several engineers away from other projects for a week to redesign a decent element of the project. This wasn't due to me being some genuis - any competent engineer could've spotted the big flaw in the design.

This was because they were with a fortnight of the project going to construction phase, so obviously they didn't want systems being installed that either didn't work as intended, or in this case, wouldn't fit in the ceiling void.

I suspect the same goes for car maintenance in dealerships - they do the least they can get away with, because most people these days have no clue about car maintenance (even simple tasks such as checking tyres, changing wipers or topping up certain fluids) and would certainly not check to see if maintenance work was actually done, even simple stuff.

That anecdote about a fellow Mazda car owner having a problem at my local dealership got me thinking about aless-than stellar experience there where, when I was getting my alloys replaced and new tyres fitted, they tried to palm off a set of different alloys and with no centre caps as those I'd ordered, probably knowing full well that their mistake and didn't tell me.

Lucky for me I noticed (so would most of us here), and managed to get the both the tyre fitting costs and a £25 discount on the alternate alloys fitted (and they [eventually] did find the correct new caps) - total saving of £65 - about 12-13% of the original total cost of the work.

Given quite a few Backroomers are finding it increasingly difficult to source high quality, honest dealerships, even it seems from manufacturers normally renowed for that, you have to envy those who do (or find a really good indie).

The five year service plan I brought with our last new car (in 2013), seemed like great value on the face of it.................. however, after having the first "out of contract" service on it's sixth birthday at a local specialist indy, it was pretty obvious that the main dealer probably just changed the oil and reset the service indicator once a year as the brakes now stop the car on a sixpence.

SLO (I think) commented that the main dealer probably never had the wheels off and I'm sure he's 100% correct. So in that respect, I've paid £500 for five oil changes.

>>I've paid £500 for five oil changes.

PLUS 5 stamps in the book.

I was going to edit my original message, but you've done it for me FB, thanks. ;)

I have presented an owner serviced, well cared for and tidy clean car for a part exchange price on many occasions at various dealers and got the "It hasn't been dealer serviced so we can't offer you much for it" speech, despite showing piles of receipts for oem parts and a succession of clean MOT's.

The last time I had that message, I sold the car privately a week later for more than double the PE offer.

As far as pre-sale repairs are concerned there simply isn't the margin in used cars anymore to spend loads on high quality repairs.

All the dealers from a home trader to main dealer will probably use the same people at the same cost. All the main dealers around here use the generic smart repair man with a van for all their cars regardless if £2000 or £40000.

It won't change. There isn't the money in them.

Not the servicing but any paintwork or cosmetic rectification is usually done by outsourced contractors. Usually a "smart repair" outfit with a van.

A lot of main dealers sub their used car work out to their in house "fast fit" operations rather than any in house "franchised" workshops though - particularly for MOTs, tyres etc.

They all operate as individual profit centres so will try and find the cheapest way of doing something they can get away with.

Buyers are concerned with price, price per month, size of the alloys and how up-to-date the phone integration of the car is these days. They couldn't really give a toss who serviced it or who painted a bumper they'll never clean themselves. If it looks pretty and has Spotify it's a deal.