Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

A bit off our usual topics, but my excuse is that it is travel related.

We are not currently (touch wood) affected by the above airlines flight cancellation, or the axing today of a potential further 400.000 bookings for some affected passengers...

Our flights will leave all being well for a few days in italy, and there are no shortages of reserve flights to book coming back, and anyway, we have time for a few extra days there...

As it happens we are in the timeframe where we could claim EU261 compensation for cancelled flights, and this would cover our losses, so no problem there then!!

But How on this Earth can a company alienate a goodly percentage of it's Pilots and Customers when They, the company have made such a massive mess up?

We can book elswhere for our alternative flights for the next 5 months, and How liable are we to risk booking again, when price is not the issue, but convenience from Stansted (local) is better for us.

I have just taken issue with a booking website for hotels, who were calling me and emailing me despite me asking them to stop.

I had two bookings for 2 and 4 nights respectively and cancelled them both and went elsewhere. I was given an apology afterwards but insisted I woud cancel. i was then offered a 5% discount and then 10%, but refused as my booking was within the time frame to cancel.

There are makes of cars i will no longer purchase in future, because of poor service.

Has every service industry in the country gone to the dogs?

Rant Over 9for now)

ORB

Edited by oldroverboy. on 27/09/2017 at 17:11

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Engineer Andy

I just commented in the DT about Ryanair on an article (exposee) about how they purportedly treat their cabin crews. And I thought how management treated staff in the Construction Industry (mine) was rubbish! Any good employers (public or private sector) left in the UK? Customer service is a joke (its even slipped in John Lewis in my view, though still far above most), employees get treated like dirt, often told to lie to customers or to deliberately cut corners to save money (more than they should), generally a race to the bottom. High standards and ethics are out of the window, fire-fighting crisis management is in - permanently.

Sadly, turning Left (as we see on our TV screens today) isn't the answer, nor is more of the same from those currently in charge. No one seems to be 'grasping the nettle' as things continue to slide...

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

I agree, but for the flights Mr O'leary will not be getting my next 3 bookings for Nov, dec and january, but does he give a .... (word of your own choosing) and the shareholders are all happy because their dividends are rising, as is the share price.

I have learned now to book nothing that can't be cancelled or returned if within the 14 day cooling off period for internet shopping.

Ordered a bed a few months back, bit of a welding burr over the thread where the frame joined, phoned up, was told to force the bolt in, refused and had them collect the bed at their expense, bought one elsewhere.. won't shop from them again and told them.

Fridge from a household name, opened door and ice compartment door fell off. Returned and cancelled. same story, will order elsewhere.

Sadly and perhaps wisely I check everything as soon as it is delivered. No more instore purchases of anything risky anymore.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Vitesse6

A sales rep I used to deal with explained it as hunters and farmers. The hunters want one sale, make as much as they can on it and then abandon you. The farmers looked after their accounts, made a reasonable profit and had you coming back for good service.

It is obviousfrom the insurance and energymarkets that loyalty is no longer valued,

Makes you wonder about the business model that these people are using..

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Andrew-T

I agree, but for the flights Mr O'leary will not be getting my next 3 bookings for Nov, dec and january, but does he give a ...

Mr O'Leary's airline has been well off our limits for years. We have flown to Ireland with Ryanair many years ago, as it seemed the obvious thing to do. And to be fair, we have never had any trouble with them. But I just can't take the dismissive attitude towards customers which he thinks is justified by the ludicrously cheap 'tickets' whose shortfall he tries to make up by charging for any other things which a civilised airline would include.

No sympathy from me for him at all. But as he is such a shrewd operator I can't help wondering whether it's all intentional ?

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - focussed

Let's face it, Ryanair is a flying bus service. Do you get personal waitress sevice on a bus?

Free drinks etc? No. Because it's a bus service.

You get on one end with a cheap ticket and get off the other end. Providing you follow Ryanair's rules, and don't buy anything on the flight, it's a cheap deal to get you where you want to go.

It it weren't for Ryanair, air fares would still be be sky high (sorry!).

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Fishermans Bend

Let's face it, Ryanair is a flying bus service. Do you get personal waitress sevice on a bus?

Free drinks etc? No. Because it's a bus service.

You get on one end with a cheap ticket and get off the other end. Providing you follow Ryanair's rules, and don't buy anything on the flight, it's a cheap deal to get you where you want to go.

It it weren't for Ryanair, air fares would still be be sky high (sorry!).

Exactly.

A mate has used them for a few years, never had an issue, flights are on time.

So what if pilots have to pay for uniform etc. This is well known, it's their choice, other airlines are available.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Andrew-T

<< Mr O'Leary's airline has been well off our limits for years. We have flown to Ireland with Ryanair many years ago, as it seemed the obvious thing to do. And to be fair, we have never had any trouble with them. But I just can't take the dismissive attitude towards customers which he thinks is justified by the ludicrously cheap 'tickets' whose shortfall he tries to make up by charging for any other things which a civilised airline would include. >>

I forgot to add that my cousin, who lived all her life in Ireland and sadly died nearly 20 years ago, said at the time - when O'Leary's busline was a recent phenomenon - 'oh he's only a chancer'. A term I understood to mean untrustworthy and a bit dodgy.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Mike H

I just commented in the DT about Ryanair on an article (exposee) about how they purportedly treat their cabin crews.

We know a Ryanair pilot. They have to provide (or buy) their own food, but they are allowed hot water for a drink at no cost. This particular pilot used to buy his seat at punter's rates whenever he travelled, because if Ryanair employees are travelling at discounted rates, they're the first to get bumped (which is probably not unusual in the industry).

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - argybargy

I read somewhere that Ryanair pilots had been advised by the company that they could pay Irish rates of tax, but that in fact they should have paid UK tax. Meaning that many of them are being pursued by HRMC for back tax.

No wonder they're going to the Norwegian airline, although I sincerely doubt that they'll want to pay Norwegian rates of tax.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Fishermans Bend

Received this morning from the boss.

As one of our valued customers whose original booking was regrettably disrupted when we cancelled 2,100 of the 130,000 Ryanair flights we operate in September and October, we wish to apologise sincerely for the inconvenience we caused you.

Over the last week, we have re-accommodated or refunded over 97% of the 315,000 affected customers and we will be dealing promptly with your EU261 claims as we receive them in the coming weeks. We have set up a separate team to promptly handle these claims. To make a claim, click here.

We want to do more than just apologise for your disruption so please accept this £80 Travel Voucher for you and others in your booking, which can be used during October to book a flight on any Ryanair service for travel between October 1st to March 20th 2018. Just insert the voucher code when making the booking on the Ryanair website.

We hope you will use this Travel Voucher, which we send to you with our deepest apologies for the disruption we caused you. Rest assured there will be no repeat of last week's roster related flight cancellations.

We look forward to welcoming you on-board another Ryanair flight soon.

Yours sincerely,

Michael O'Leary - CEO

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - focussed

The CAA has today launched enforcement action against Ryanair for persistently misleading passengers with inaccurate information regarding their rights in respect of its recent cancellations.

Here is the letter the CAA sent to Ryanair today:-

https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/News/News_files/2017/Julisz%20Komorek%20Ryanair%20270917.pdf

I’ll bet that ruined O’Leary’s day today!

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

The CAA has today launched enforcement action against Ryanair for persistently misleading passengers with inaccurate information regarding their rights in respect of its recent cancellations.

Here is the letter the CAA sent to Ryanair today:-

https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/News/News_files/2017/Julisz%20Komorek%20Ryanair%20270917.pdf

I’ll bet that ruined O’Leary’s day today!

I bet it did, but the cynic in me says will it achieve anything?

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - bazza

It's us, as greedy consumers that have created companies such as Ryanair. Our insatiable demand for cheaper and cheaper air travel means something's got to give. It's frankly ludicrous that we can fly across Europe for 20 quid or so--- and of course we love it. But it's ultimately not sustainable. The business model needs to change slightly to improve customer service in all its forms, and also he needs a lesson in corporate responsibility to his staff, but that means us consumers have to pay a bit more. Until then, we continue to get what we pay for, which is absolute minimal everything.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

. Until then, we continue to get what we pay for, which is absolute minimal everything.

I don't mind the minimum, I have ears and a mouth, to not listen to the sales bit on the plane and i say no to the extras i don't need.

What i do want is that once i make a purchase, the other party, whether it is an airline or a fridge, a hotel or a bed, keeps their side of the contract.

Build on that, and I am happy to pay extra.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - focussed

The CAA has today launched enforcement action against Ryanair for persistently misleading passengers with inaccurate information regarding their rights in respect of its recent cancellations.

Here is the letter the CAA sent to Ryanair today:-

https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/News/News_files/2017/Julisz%20Komorek%20Ryanair%20270917.pdf

I’ll bet that ruined O’Leary’s day today!

I bet it did, but the cynic in me says will it achieve anything?

Listened to Andrew Haynes (director of CAA) this morning on R4 and he admitted that the CAA do not have the power to ground Ryanair or any other sanction other than an unlimited fine. Because aviation regulation is - you guessed it - rooted in Europe, plus Ryanair are an Irish airline.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Avant

I like the parallel with hunters and farmers. There is far too much short-termism in industry, a lot of it caused by the control over public companies exercised by a comparatively small number of institiutional shareholders.

If you go back, say, 50 years, the majority of shares in companies were held by private individuals. Now they're almost all in the hands of institutions, as if we have money to invest it tends to go into pension schemes / building societies / investment trusts etc rather than directly into company shares. They of course want maximum dividends as soon as possible, when it might be more prudent for companies to retain a high proportion of their profits with a view to long-term prosperity.

Why do the institutions want their slice of the cake now? Because they are answerable to us, the consumers, who put our money with them. Ryanair is a classic example of short-term consumerism, and to some extent we have only ourselves to blame. They've had some years of quick profit, but I rather doubt that they'll come out of this shambles. Some of us are old enough to remember British Eagle and Freddie Laker: an airline is quite a fragile industry.

If Ryanair go down, there will be few wet eyes in the house.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Engineer Andy

I like the parallel with hunters and farmers. There is far too much short-termism in industry, a lot of it caused by the control over public companies exercised by a comparatively small number of institiutional shareholders.

If you go back, say, 50 years, the majority of shares in companies were held by private individuals. Now they're almost all in the hands of institutions, as if we have money to invest it tends to go into pension schemes / building societies / investment trusts etc rather than directly into company shares. They of course want maximum dividends as soon as possible, when it might be more prudent for companies to retain a high proportion of their profits with a view to long-term prosperity.

Why do the institutions want their slice of the cake now? Because they are answerable to us, the consumers, who put our money with them. Ryanair is a classic example of short-term consumerism, and to some extent we have only ourselves to blame. They've had some years of quick profit, but I rather doubt that they'll come out of this shambles. Some of us are old enough to remember British Eagle and Freddie Laker: an airline is quite a fragile industry.

If Ryanair go down, there will be few wet eyes in the house.

Indeed - if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys...

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - John F

We are currently on the west bank of the Rhine courtesy of a Ryanairbus. It took off 27mins late and arrived 12mins late. We then took nearly a frustrating hour to get through passport control at Cologne. As focussed says, it's just a bus with six wheels and a couple of wings and I personally couldn't care a flying duck what's written on the side of it as long as it leaves and arrives on time.

Unlike a roadbus, it's at the mercy of both air traffic control and the capacity of the strip of tarmac it leaves from and arrives at. Much needs to be done here.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

As you say, it's a bus

Ryanairbus £10

Flixbus £46 cheapest and up to 17 hours

Train £68 cheapest 8 hours

www.goeuro.co.uk/travel-search2/results/535685878/...n

Stansted is close by us and so convenient. Victoria or liverpool street are not.

But our european friends are now determined to improve our fitness by making nonSchengen arrivals walk around half of the airport when we arrive.

Departure time is not take off time, so if overall you were 12 minutes late, nothing to cry about for £14.99/ (we paid £12.99 to cologne last time.!) return was £9.00

Edited by oldroverboy. on 29/09/2017 at 06:53

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

We are currently on the west bank of the Rhine courtesy of a Ryanairbus. It took off 27mins late and arrived 12mins late.

If you like cakes and good coffee, swmbo and myself recommend this...

www.toertchentoertchen.de/

and this for food. staff very good, food prices very good.

www.max-stark.de/

reserve for the evening, lunchtimes ok.

last time we were there they had an oompah oompah band oustide in the street and the band had drunk more than the customers,,,, ab fab!

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - John F

Thanks, ORB, but I'm more of a bier und bratwurst.....and am now in Mainz!

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

Thanks, ORB, but I'm more of a bier und bratwurst.....and am now in Mainz!

www.max-stark.de/

Max stark is pure bier and bratwurst, nice fried potatoes

Edited by oldroverboy. on 30/09/2017 at 05:36

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

Thanks, ORB, but I'm more of a bier und bratwurst.....and am now in Mainz!

I had an accident in Mainz once, I was in the preselectio to turn right (einordnung?) and a lady in the lane going straight ahead turned in front of me. Police came and said not my fault, please exchange details. no ticket or fine issued. Took insurance compny years to sort out.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

Mr O has blinked first!

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Ethan Edwards

I believe this is O'leary's "Ratner" moment.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner

You cannot stay in business long, if your business model involves cwapping over your customers.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - daveyjp
What this whole saga does demonstrate is how ineffective the regulators are.

Ryanair (and they are not alone) have operated outside of the EU regs on compensation for delayed and missed flights forever. They have never automatically offered to pay for an alternative flight with another airline and always try and get away with not paying full compo. Refund of taxes is always recovered in the form of admin fees.

It should not take the kind of distuption being seen now for the regulator to do something. As soon as they see evidence of EU regs not being followed, even if just one flight’s passengers are affected, action should be taken.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.
What this whole saga does demonstrate is how ineffective the regulators are. Ryanair (and they are not alone) have operated outside of the EU regs on compensation for delayed and missed flights forever. They have never automatically offered to pay for an alternative flight with another airline and always try and get away with not paying full compo. Refund of taxes is always recovered in the form of admin fees. It should not take the kind of distuption being seen now for the regulator to do something. As soon as they see evidence of EU regs not being followed, even if just one flight’s passengers are affected, action should be taken.

Agreed, but will they? Would also like to see it happen to BA.. Friends wife and daughter were stuck in washington, only got a hotel because he had money to book it, he was here in the uk and using a bokking website foiund a hotel when BA said no rooms available. Currently going through the courts and i fully expect him to win.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - galileo
What this whole saga does demonstrate is how ineffective the regulators are. Ryanair (and they are not alone) have operated outside of the EU regs on compensation for delayed and missed flights forever. They have never automatically offered to pay for an alternative flight with another airline and always try and get away with not paying full compo. Refund of taxes is always recovered in the form of admin fees. It should not take the kind of distuption being seen now for the regulator to do something. As soon as they see evidence of EU regs not being followed, even if just one flight’s passengers are affected, action should be taken.

Agreed, but will they? Would also like to see it happen to BA.. Friends wife and daughter were stuck in washington, only got a hotel because he had money to book it, he was here in the uk and using a bokking website foiund a hotel when BA said no rooms available. Currently going through the courts and i fully expect him to win.

In fairness to BA, my flight home from New York was delayed (technical problem with aircraft, had to fly iin a replacement) and within 30 minutes of original departure time coaches arrived, took us all to the Hilton, rooms allocated, meal laid on, so personally no complaints. Another time shuttle Heathrow to Manchester, technical fault and replacement 'plane sorganised within an hour. They may not be as good now as they were when I used them often on business trips.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - John F

Departure Stansted (brakes off) delayed 27mins, departure Frankfurt delayed 25mins (it only arrived 1min before its departure time. No apology. It arrives in and departs from the distant cargo area, (cheap, I suppose) so there's a 3km ride round the massive airport plus a lengthy wait in a crammed old bendybus.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Andrew-T

... It arrives in and departs from the distant cargo area, (cheap, I suppose) so there's a 3km ride round the massive airport plus a lengthy wait in a crammed old bendybus.

Reminds me of Leningrad (as it then was) in 1989, except that the drive was only about 150 yards, but those foreigners had to be contained in case they got up to mischief. The plane was 'not ready' so after about 10 minutes, with the temperature rising in the bus, some people started to sing football songs. After a bit longer it was decided to readmit us to the departure lounge, but the man with the key had gone somwhere else. When that was sorted out, a new set of boarding passes had to be issued as the others had been collected earlier. You couldn't make it up really.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

You couldn't make it up really.

I lost my boarding pass at gatwick a few years ago, and they still let me on the plane, although I had a copy of my ticket with me.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - carl233

Having conducted much travel over the last 5 years or more outside of the West I am constantly surprised how bad things are on my return to the UK. So many places in the Middle East, Asia and Oceania have seriously higher standard's of customer service. Of the many countries visited the West would consider them 'not developed' yet from my experience they are better than the UK in many respects such as quality of life and having people that are not as brainwashed and conditioned etc.

Overall in my humble opinion whilst the media would have you confident the West is at the cutting edge of everything my eyes and instincts tell me very different things the more I travel.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - sandy56

I used to think that the USA had the highest standards of customer service but no more. Like the UK they treat customers as an inconvenience at best.

I have'nt used Ryanair for years but I have used EASYJET a lot to travel in Europe and it was a reasonable experience and would use them again. Compard to KLM I have saved my employer a fortune!

The best place for service and attitude to customers I have found was in the Far East and Vietnam in particular. I would love to go back but it is a LONG way, and SWMBO hates flying.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - John F

Overall in my humble opinion whilst the media would have you confident the West is at the cutting edge of everything my eyes and instincts tell me very different things the more I travel.

Indeed. Some seats on the CRH trains in China rival airline business class (we travelled extensively while there for a wedding). 300kph is a pretty standard reading on the carriage speedo, service is faultless and when the train arrives at the platform the cleaners, one per carriage, stand at attention facing the train, and rotate 90degrees in unison to bow and greet alighting passengers! They appear to take pride in their service. They are beyond comparison with UK or USA trains.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Andrew-T

<< Some seats on the CRH trains in China rival airline business class ... >>

Speaking of seats, the ones on recent Eurostar trains are the most rigidly uncomfortable I have sat on, anywhere, any time. I can't imagine how anyone thought they should go into production.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

<< Some seats on the CRH trains in China rival airline business class ... >>

Speaking of seats, the ones on recent Eurostar trains are the most rigidly uncomfortable I have sat on, anywhere, any time. I can't imagine how anyone thought they should go into production.

Over expensive and I agree, lousy seats. check in area to pass security very crowded at St pancras and at brussels too. On board catering as bad as any airline.

Add on the time to get to St pancras from Colchester and Stansted is a better bet. Only if you live on a tube line or 20 minutes from the staion does eurostar make sense at all.

Plus if i go to belgium it's by car.

As we travel further afield stansted makes more and more sense.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - John F

As we travel further afield stansted makes more and more sense.

Stansted is our most hated airport. The long and mid term carparks appear to be situated in the adjacent county, the bus eventually drops you at the entrance to a long curvy shopping mall. A quarter mile walk through this gets you to.... either another vehicle ride(underground shuttle), or a lengthy hike along almost interminable corridors to the actual departure platform/gate or whatever you want to call it. You need to be fit!

On arrival from Frankfurt we taxied to the gate, and then just sat in the plane for another 15-20mins because 'there were no ground staff available' to wheel a staircase up to the door. No help from the numerous idle shop assistants ......

Our domestic travel arrangements (road,rail,air) are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of the civilised world. Do we complain? Why bother - gave up long ago-just a waste of more time.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - oldroverboy.

As we travel further afield stansted makes more and more sense.

Stansted is our most hated airport. The long and mid term carparks appear to be situated in the adjacent county. Our domestic travel arrangements (road,rail,air) are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of the civilised world. Do we complain? Why bother - gave up long ago-just a waste of more time.

I agree, But, and it is a subjective but.. We now get a taxi to stansted (free ) (it's a mate) (favours returned) so no more carpark hassle. dropped off in front of door. In adequate time not to rush. same for collection....

But agree the Country is the laughing stock of europe now for transport.

The alternative for us is to stay in some overpriced alleged 4**** in the uk ( we don't do shared bathrooms thank you! ) and get wet if we go outdoors and then eat microwaved food when eating out. So we travel.

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - John F

<< Some seats on the CRH trains in China rival airline business class ... >>

Speaking of seats, the ones on recent Eurostar trains are the most rigidly uncomfortable I have sat on, anywhere, any time. I can't imagine how anyone thought they should go into production.

Last time we went to London on our overcrowded East Midland line, the seat reservation system had failed, all seats were occupied, so the train official kindly allowed us two OAPs to sit in First Class. Even here, it was like sitting on a cushion on the bonnet of a diesel bus - because that's actually what it was. There is a large noisy vibrating engine under each carriage because in the 21st century this main line has yet to be electrified!!!! I feel really sorry for commuters who have to put up with this twice a day - and pay a fortune for the 'privilege'. Carriages towed by an oil-fired steam loco would be quieter and more comfortable.

Edited by John F on 05/10/2017 at 12:45

Not motoring but Flying.. - Ryanair, Shame.. same as car maufacturers? - Andrew-T

<< Carriages towed by an oil-fired steam loco would be quieter and more comfortable. >>

But a lot dearer to run. On the heritage railway where I volunteer, the estimate is that 50 bums on seats will cover the cost of a run with a steamer, but only 15 with a diesel railcar. Then factor in the time it takes to get a boilerful of water up to at least 130°C to provide some pressure ....

 

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