Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Mattp73

Hi Im in a bit of a sticky situatioin and wondered what your advice would be . I was pulling out of a garage just before xmas when a bus stopped to let me out ,the other lane of traffic also stopped to let me out . As i pulled out another driver overtook the bus that had stopped and we glanced each other . We then exchanged details and when I got home i found out that I had canceled the wrong insurance ! Yes i was an idiot !

Now the other driver is blaming me for the crash and their insurance company are requesting I pay for the damage .

Just wondering if I you think i have any chance of not having to pay damages .Also I have 2 witnesses to say it wasnt my fault

Thanks for any advice

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - SLO76
" when I got home i found out that I had canceled the wrong insurance ! Yes i was an idiot !"

If you had no insurance then they've got you over a barrel. Pay up and hope they don't report you for driving without insurance.

By my reckoning since you were pulling out into traffic the responsibility to check all is clear lies with you and not the vehicles already travelling on the road no matter what the bus was doing so it's likely you'd be found at fault by your insurer anyway I'm afraid.
Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Mattp73

Yeah i was worried about that , this is the image im sending to the insurance company , its the actual road and I added the cars

imgur.com/a/yOpmi

Edited by Mattp73 on 07/01/2017 at 18:45

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - NARU

Yeah i was worried about that , this is the image im sending to the insurance company , its the actual road and I added the cars

imgur.com/a/yOpmi

On the basis of that, I'd say the blame/responsibility is yours. The car overtaking the bus was on the main road, so had priority.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - RT

If you were insured, I'd suggest it's 50:50 at best as you do still have a responsibility to check the unexpected - but as above, driving without insurance is your bigger issue.

Pay up swiftly, to avoid making things worse.

Presumably you have now corrected the lack of insurance.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Mattp73

If you were insured, I'd suggest it's 50:50 at best as you do still have a responsibility to check the unexpected - but as above, driving without insurance is your bigger issue.

Pay up swiftly, to avoid making things worse.

Presumably you have now corrected the lack of insurance.

Yeah that was the first thing I did when I realised my stupid mistake .

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Bolt

By my reckoning since you were pulling out into traffic the responsibility to check all is clear lies with you and not the vehicles already travelling on the road no matter what the bus was doing so it's likely you'd be found at fault by your insurer anyway I'm afraid.

I had an accident similar about 6 years ago and thats what the insurance company told me,though my car was written off....

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Mattp73

Would it make a difference on the position that she over took by ?.I have attached a photo

Thanks for your replys

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - SLO76

Would it make a difference on the position that she over took by ?.I have attached a photo

Thanks for your replys

It doesn't I'm afraid even if you had been insured it was still your responsibility to make sure that it was clear to pull out. If there was any doubt you shouldn't pull out even if someone waves or flashes you to do so because this happens, people will overtake a slowing or stopped bus. Even if you weren't at fault in the eyes of the insurance industry the fact that you weren't covered kills any defence stone dead. If you don't pay up they'll involve the police and the cost will rise sharply, it's 6 points and a fixed penalty of £300 and that's if it doesn't go to court. I'm not kidding, forget trying to get off with this you've no choice here I'm afraid call them and accept liability and say you want to pay it yourself. I'm unsure how you managed to accidentally cancel your insurance, I've been driving 23 years and haven't managed it despite having owned a rediculous number of motors over the years. I hope you weren't driving without cover on purpose but accept that mistakes happen.
Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Mattp73

Like i said in my opening post I cancelled the wrong insurance by mistake, I called them I had 2 cars same make same colour ,I gave the wrong policy number , I know it was a stupid mistake to make and would in no way intentionally drive uninsured . I was even paying the insurance still on the other car that had been scrapped .

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - SLO76

Like i said in my opening post I cancelled the wrong insurance by mistake, I called them I had 2 cars same make same colour ,I gave the wrong policy number , I know it was a stupid mistake to make and would in no way intentionally drive uninsured . I was even paying the insurance still on the other car that had been scrapped .

Fair enough, we all make mistakes.
Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - KB.

It has nothing to do with me... but I guess you asked for thoughts and opinions... and that's all it is.

First off, the illustration you provided is helpful... a picture is worth a thousand words etc.

And after that, my opinion is.... you made a mistake... firstly by inadvertantly driving with no insurance (in itself a serious offence which is not looked kindly upon...the possibility of accidentally killing someone is ever present and we all rely on insurance in case the worst happens)... and thereafter you have to concede that you pulled into the path of a vehicle already on the main road and having clear right of way. That much is (now you've provided the snapshot) as clear as daylight. The presence of the bus is a factor in the accident but doesn't offer you any form of defence. You didn't see the Astra and you pulled into its path and it struck you, causing damage.

The Police weren't called and no-one was injured.

If that were me I would be banging on their door begging them to take my cash/cheque in order to settle the matter and be thankful that I got away with having an accident whilst uninsured and only had to pay out whatever it was you have to pay out. The consequences and costs of conviction (inc. points on licence) and subsequent increase in premiums due to your having driven uninsured would have amounted to a considerable sum over the next five years (i.e. the increase in premiums year on year).

You got away with it - be thankful - pay up and stop trying to lessen your blame and responsibility.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - KB.

I mean't to say above that I didn't mean to sound trite or clever but do feel you shouldn't look for ways to blame the other driver and save your own expenses. The other driver is only doing what you would have done in their position... and the other driver was insured at the time - and you wasn't! What actually are your grounds for blaming the other driver? And what/who is to say that the two witnesses are correct in their assessments and allocation of blame? If you had been "found out" by the Police then you'd have had all the ensuing trouble with them plus still had to pay for the damage as you had no insurance to cover it. Plus the ongoing insurance costs mentioned earlier. I hope you don't get caught out at this later stage and find the issue passed to the Police... coz that's not what you want to happen.

Edited by KB. on 07/01/2017 at 21:19

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Mattp73

My grounds for blaming the other driver is that she was driving dangerously , she was unaware of any potential hazards .Clearly both sides of the traffic was stopped to let me out. She over took a bus that had stopped infront of exit of a garage which is another potential hazard . I stopped when I saw her accelerating past the bus and she hit me as she passed .

I dont think she would of passed any hazard awareness test and I know for sure I would not of overtook that bus in that area . especially as it only stopped for a couple seconds

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - SLO76

My grounds for blaming the other driver is that she was driving dangerously , she was unaware of any potential hazards .Clearly both sides of the traffic was stopped to let me out. She over took a bus that had stopped infront of exit of a garage which is another potential hazard . I stopped when I saw her accelerating past the bus and she hit me as she passed .

I dont think she would of passed any hazard awareness test and I know for sure I would not of overtook that bus in that area . especially as it only stopped for a couple seconds

Look at the section 'junctions and crossings' then subsection 'turning right.' You are at fault. www.safedrivingforlife.info/drivers-and-riders/dri...d

Edited by SLO76 on 08/01/2017 at 10:15

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Bromptonaut

I don't think her driving is anywhere near dangerous which is (per CPS) when a persons standard of driving falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver.

Lesser offence is careless driving when the defendants driving falls below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver. You're going to struggle to prove even that. If she were an above average skilled driver using IAM type driving/observation she might have avoided this accident but primary responsibility is yours.

Since somebody slowed to let you out there was presumably queueing traffic in both directions. You should have been aware of possibility of another vehicle, perhaps particularly a cycle or motor-cycle, overtaking the queue.

I'm afraid you just need to pay up and learn.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 08/01/2017 at 10:45

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - skidpan

Simple fact is you were not insurred and should not have been driving. That makes you 100% guilty.

Alternatively report the other parties "dangerous" driving to the police making them aware of the fact you were not insurred at the time. There will be only one outcome and not only will you be paying for the other parties repairs you will have an hefty fine and points.

If you delay and the other party reports the incident to the Police and the fact you were not insurred you will be similarly out of pocket.

So pay up and learn.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Brit_in_Germany

Ignoring the lack of insurance, I would still not blame the other driver. They passed (not overtook) a stationary bus when the traffic in the other direction had stopped for whatever reason. They would not have known why the bus had stopped but since it is normal for buses to stop, there would be no reason for them to have expected you to drive out.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - KB.

Again I say I'm only passing comment here... as invited or requested by the OP, Mattp73.

Matt, you've replied today (Sunday) so thanks for that.... vey often you see a question posed or a point made and a several people take the time to reply and the OP is never seen again. So that is appreciated.

Furthermore your post doesn't sound like a trolling post designed just for effect... but you have to accept that sometimes that happens...but not here I feel... your illustration rather reinforces my thinking.

But, you did ASK for thoughts, comments, advice even. And you have received all of those things. I believe the concensus in the replies above was 100% you made a mistake by being uninsured... and 100% you have no reasonable grounds to refuse to pay the aggrieved party's damage... and 100% you were lucky not to have been caught by the Police for driving uninsured... and 100% you should settle up whilst you have the opportunity rather than continue - as you are doing - to plead innocence and to maintain the Astra driver was driving dangerously and to suggest she was wrong and you were right.... and furthermore to assert that everyone on this forum is also wrong.

Like it or not there are some reasonably well informed individuals here who's driving experience is quite considerable. There are legal experts who post here and people who have had, what sounds like, a lot more experience than you sound like you've had.

So, to be honest, you do as you see fit. No-one here knows your personal details so, of course, no-one is going to be disposed to take the matter further... but if you continue to prevaricate and to delay addressing the matter then you will be asking for all the grief and distress that will inevitably be coming your way. And if you were to post at some later date to say that you HAD been reported for the offence of driving without third party (as a minimum) insurance then you're not gonna get much sympathy, of that you can be assured.

Edited by KB. on 08/01/2017 at 15:02

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - ExA35Owner

The bus driver didn't tell you to pull out; he suggested that you might do so, and gave you the space to do so. Your duty at this moment is, assuming you decide to accept the bus driver's goodwill, is to "creep and peep" until you can see that the way ahead is clear.

If the van driver is offering you the opportunity to pay up, I'd grab it as fast as you can.

Alternative is an uninsured driving charge, quite possibly a careless driving one as well, and having to pay up anyway when the van's insurers get into action. That's a lot of money, a lot of points, and a lot of higher insurance premiums for some years.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - RT

My grounds for blaming the other driver is that she was driving dangerously , she was unaware of any potential hazards .Clearly both sides of the traffic was stopped to let me out. She over took a bus that had stopped infront of exit of a garage which is another potential hazard . I stopped when I saw her accelerating past the bus and she hit me as she passed .

I dont think she would of passed any hazard awareness test and I know for sure I would not of overtook that bus in that area . especially as it only stopped for a couple seconds

"when in a hole, stop digging"

You were required to give way to all traffic on the main road and by implication be prepared for the unexpected, which includes cars overtaking stationary buses and others driving less than perfectly.

You're not going to get anywhere positive on this and are risking a huge negative of being charged with driving with no insurance, which will make all insurance expensive when your ban ends.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - galileo

My grounds for blaming the other driver is that she was driving dangerously , she was unaware of any potential hazards .Clearly both sides of the traffic was stopped to let me out. She over took a bus that had stopped infront of exit of a garage which is another potential hazard . I stopped when I saw her accelerating past the bus and she hit me as she passed .

I dont think she would of passed any hazard awareness test and I know for sure I would not of overtook that bus in that area . especially as it only stopped for a couple seconds

If the bus only stopped for a couple of seconds, a sensible course of action would have been to wait a couple of seconds until the bus had gone and you would have had a clear view of approaching traffic.

The fact you didn't suggests it is you who lacks hazard awareness.

Edited by galileo on 08/01/2017 at 20:23

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Avant

Is it just me....? Looking at the photo that Matt has provided, no-one has wondered what the red car is doing in a lane which is intended for people going the other way and preparing to turn right.

If Matt, in the white car, checked that he was being let out by both the bus, to his right, and the blue car, to his left in at that point the only lane, he understandably pulled out and also says he stopped when he saw the red car (driven dangerously, I agree) approaching.

He should have a strong case, but this may collapse if the red car driver's insurance company want to see his insurance details.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - SLO76
Sorry Avant I couldn't disagree more. Even if the red car was speeding or being driven badly (which I don't think it was) the onus is still with the OP to have checked the route was safe for him to pull into traffic. It wasn't.

We all overtake stationary buses on a daily basis, the person driving the red car did what we all regularly do. They looked to see the road ahead was clear, signaled, then pulled out to overtake while thinking the bus was stopping to drop or pick up passengers.

To be fair to the OP it is a set of rather unfortunate circumstances that probably could've caught any of us out but in the eyes of the insurance industry, the Highway Code and the law he was mistaken. The lack of valid insurance is the final nail in the coffin.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/01/2017 at 19:15

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - KB.

This one's gone quiet. Why am I not surprised? Someone asks a question, doesn't get the answers they want.... not to be seen again.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Avant

It happens, doesn't it. He must have known that the insurance issue was going to clobber him, so he can't have been surprised by the response he got.

Vauxhall Astravan - Whos to blame? - Andrew-T
To be fair to the OP it is a set of rather unfortunate circumstances that probably could've caught any of us out but in the eyes of the insurance industry, the Highway Code and the law he was mistaken. The lack of valid insurance is the final nail in the coffin.

If the OP had been properly insured, the details of the incident might have been worth discussing. As he wasn't, they are almost irrelevant and all he can do is keep his head down and limit the damage.