For many years now, i've been buying tyres primarily on getting the best wet grip possible, especially in the winter, in fact i've removed a set of perfectly good high quality tyres from my elderly MB as the tyres suffered from 2 problems, they took around 3 or so miles to get rid of the overnight flat spots, and the appalling wet grip until warmed up.
I think Humph makes an interesting point, modern cars and their tyres can corner at tremendous speeds in the dry, very little roll, car designed to understeer constantly as apparently if anyone should oversteer again the world will stop.
All this changes so drastically when wet and greasy conditions come into play, a much bigger change than the sorts of grip levels that were available on the cars that most of us learned on, cars that had to be driven, not just pointed.
Feeling the lightness and recognising that things are not responding the same Lud, i wonder if a young less experienced buck would even have been aware of slippery conditions, having probably been brought up on cars far too capable?
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It's what I meant about crossplies gb. You knew they didn't grip all that well even in the dry, but if you tiptoed around on the edge of serious slip angles just for the fun of it you very seldom got badly caught out. With modern radials, as you say, dry grip is very high indeed with slip angles you hardly notice in most cars, and wet grip is also much better, but radials let go much more suddenly and I guess the first time it happens to a modern young driver it might cause a bit of alarm.
Of course, touch wood, one doesn't expect to hit another car or anything unyielding when simply pootling, albeit briskly, about on the road. Like other drivers I have learned to keep an eye (and ear, and fingertips, and seat of pants) on road surfaces so I often know what to expect. But I think there are many drivers out there who think it's on rails like a train, and may be embarrassingly or even dangerously taken aback and dismayed when they find out all of a sudden that it isn't.
It is a great disadvantage never to have driven like a mad hooligan in your life.
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It is a great disadvantage never to have driven like a mad hooligan in your life.
Too true, Lud. As a young tearaway I learned how to steer a car (both front and rear wheel drive) with the throttle, although it is a skill that I have not needed in recent years it means you can feel the level of grip at any given time. Handy on water/oil/ice covered roads. I wonder how many drivers can feel the onset of aquaplaning and respond appropriately?
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Missed the edit.
I have just replaced my front tyres at 3mm of tread remaining, they had lost their "edge".
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they had lost their "edge".
As they do...
It occurs to me that some may interpret part of one of my posts above as a recommendation to drive like a mad hooligan. It wasn't, of course. The handling limits of cars on the road should be approached with great circumspection, especially in the presence of other traffic. Any tendency to bravery should be firmly suppressed, and unless your steering and other inputs are rapid, delicate and correct (which can mean counter-intuitive), handling or adhesion limits should be given a very wide berth. Much better safe than very, very sorry. You can't really depend on luck so management is the answer.
Of course this is preaching to the converted here.
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Lud, what do you expect from tyres that cost £30?
If you want good wet grip get some decent ones, like Michelin, Goodyear, Continental, Pirelli etc.
If anyone is wondering why I'm posting so much today, well it's wet and I can't combine my barley. That's with a Claas combine with a Perkins engine with Michelin tyres.
Edited by quizman on 12/08/2008 at 17:53
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Bangernomics qz... the car only cost £250 and that was four years ago.
As I said, the tyres came from a proper tyrefitter recommended by my indy mechanic. He could certainly have supplied wonderful sporting stickies, at a price, if that had been what I wanted. But nor are the tyres he sold me rock-bottom stiff-compound everlasting noisy no-grip cheapos. They are respectable budget boots.
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Sorry Lud, no offence meant, but if you shop around you can get some good deals.
A pal has an Avensis with cheapo Russian and Chinese tyres which were very noisy. He replaced them with Premiun Contacts and is very pleased with the result.
Edited by quizman on 12/08/2008 at 18:01
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I knew the "anti cheap tyres brigade" would make a comment on this sooner or later.
Its all relative. A cheap tyre can be plenty good enough, if not driven to extreme limits etc. But even a cheap tyre (or should probably put even an expensive tyre) will have a change in its performance level at some point. Its the change in level that is the question I believe, not what is the ultimate grip tyre?
All tyres (whatever brand/style) will have different performance characteristics. Some better in dry, some rain, some snow, some cold etc etc. All tyres are a compromise for all year round conditions.
The anti cheap tyre comments have to be taken into context too. A car with expensive branded tyres but poor/worn suspension bushes/components will not stop as quick as it should. A cheaply shod car with well maintained same components may well stop better!
I would far prefer to see cars with good condition cheap tyres on them than poor condition expensive branded ones. Expensive ones are often kept far too long because they are expensive to replace and are often way beyond their proper grip levels!
To see this look at any car park and actually look at some cars tyres, you will be (badly) surprised at the condition of tyres out there! Another reason for a yearly mot imo!
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Yorkiebar, I agree with many of your comments, re a new cheapo is better than a bald premium one, of course it is. MOT test every year, yes please.
I would like to refer you to the Which tyre tests. The best tyres were so much better, especially in the wet, that nothing would persuade me to fit some of the nasty cheapo far eastern rubbish. I value my life and other peoples too much.
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Quite yb.
I've bought a lot of tyres over the years starting in the crossply days. Some budget tyres have been absolute rubbish - I remember some knobbly ones that lasted about 10,000 miles on the back of my VW 411. Others have been noisy and lacking in grip (but you ought to try a 2CV on oversize Michelin Xs for sudden breakaway on wet cobbles, chapeau!). Had some very nice Goodyears on my last Skoda. These things on the front of the Ford, East European or Asian, are pretty good cheapish tyres entirely appropriate to my present car at its stage of life...
Forgot to mention hard-to-balance speed-limited retreads and dodgy secondhand tyres for a tenner, of which I have also had a few.
'Ever seen a cutter?' a racing mechanic once asked me with an evil grin.
Edited by Lud on 12/08/2008 at 18:29
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All tyres (whatever brand/style) will have different performance characteristics.
Some of these may be seen on the sidewall.
There are standard gradings for tread wear, traction and temperature (as well as sustained top speed, load).
AFAIR 100 = (arbitrary?) standard for wear, so grippier tyres will have a lower number, harder wearing ones a higher one. Traction A = good, C = minimum acceptable. Temperature similar. Lud could look at his tyres & say what their ratings are! It would be interesting to know. If I remember, I'll report what's on my old car.
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If I remember I'll report what's on my old car.
A quick look at my car and a couple of others shows:
Old Accord, Michelin Energy.......... wear=400, tract=A, temp=A
Honda small sporty thing Runways wear=400 tract=A temp=A
Peugot 106 Continental Evo Cont 3 wear=240 tract=A temp=A
Big fat Hyundai Tucson on Soluses. wear=340 tract=AA temp=A
q
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 12/08/2008 at 19:49
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I knew the "anti cheap tyres brigade" would make a comment on this sooner or later. Its all relative. A cheap tyre can be plenty good enough if not driven to extreme limits etc.>>
Dont you use extreme limits in a emergency stop? I havent needed one for years but I cant predict a child running into the road.
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In that case, using only the very best tyre that money can buy, with the sole regard of being able to stop as quickly as possible, should be the form. Luckily, in all but an infinitesimally small number of cases, one can indeed predict a child (or anyone else) running into the road, and make allowances.
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I like to think that I can anticipate most things on the road, but an emegency stop is for the exeption when you get caught out. I dont believe anyone is so good a driver that they will never need to stop in a minimum distance.
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The point I was trying to make ON is that the tyre is the only contact with the road i agree, but it is also dependant upon effective suspension and brakes. View a few mots and I think you will understand a high % of cars are not good in these areas!
Cheap tyres are quite likely as good as any other tyre to stop you quickly when needed, subject to the weather, the tarmac/snow/rain/temperature prevailing.
Ideally you should change your tyre to suit the conditions; but thats not practical so we use a compromise tyre. The choice you make is yours (I am not asking you to buy cheap tyres) but it depends on more than the tyre to stop safely in any condition.
But 1 thing that wont help you stop is a worn out expensive branded tyre! or tyres!
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But 1 thing that wont help you stop is a worn out expensive branded tyre! or tyres!
Ybar, I agree that tyres are only part of the stopping problem, please see my "missed the edit" entry above.
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