The August copy of Which? magazine has just arrived, with a new-car reliability survey indicating that the top group is almost exclusively Japanese and "Mercedes-Benz has dropped further than any other manufacturer this year" to the third (average) of the four groups.
BEST: Honda, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda, Nissan, Smart, Toyota
GOOD: Daihatsu, Ford, Suzuki
AVERAGE: Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Daewoo, Isuzu, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Proton, Saab, Seat, Skoda, Subaru
POOR: Alfa Romeo, Citroën, Fiat, Land Rover, MG, Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Vauxhall, VW, Volvo
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Not in the least surprising. Proves yet again that those manufacturers who stick to the knitting and invest in the product come out way ahead of those who blow it all on marketing flim-flam and image BS. You see Hyundai up there? GO ahead and sneer, those guys in ROK know what they're about, as any Asian taxi driver wil tell you.
I also see yet again the French persist in the relentless quest to set new levels of mediocrity.
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OK now I know someone's going to mention the Hyundai story on CNN today...
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Lots of surprises there then. Not.
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Perhaps one surprise: the Audi TT proved to be the most unreliable of all.
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Well, I would say two minor surprises - Smart being so high up; Subaru being only avarage.
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Ah, yes - like Ford good, and Volvo poor - pardon?
What I meant was, in general, we all know by now the makes that are going to up there and those makes that are going to down there.
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Why is smart being so high up a surprise? They hardly ever break down!!! I don't know what they class as 'reliability' but if it involves failure of major components I know very few smart owners who have had to be rescued. Most warranty jobs seem to be for niggly things like worn light switches, sticking electric windows, dodgy fuel cap solenoids etc. Only major item I know of is cracking manifolds on a number of cars up to Mk5 - this has now been sorted by redesigning the component - but even failure of this doesn't make the car undriveable.
I agree with Trev P - no real surprises with the bottom group.
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daveyip
I take it you are unaware of the problem whereby the end of No.1 spark plug drops off and wrecks the engine? Onto the trailer and away for a brand new engine.. :-(
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Only anecdotal I know but everyone I know who's had Volvos (including my MOT tester) says the older ones are far more reliable. Whether this is down to cost cutting, a fixation with gadgetry or the pace of change I have no idea - possibly a combination of all three.
Frankly, some of the problem posts in 'Technical' detailing costly faults and serious quality problems with supposedly upmarket, quality cars astonish me.
All in all this survey doesn't surprise me and if more drivers forgot brand image and purchased according to merit quality would improve.
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vm - .. and maybe some makers would go out of business?
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why do reliable cars have to be so boring though... I have an alfa and a renault and I just couldnt bring myself to buy a 'boring' reliable car.. I might think differently if my cars start going wrong though I guess :o) touch wood an all that
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smart = boring - how dare you!!!
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Does this drop in reliability coincide with Volvo being somehow associated with Renault? (please correct me if I'm wrong on this?
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Sorry to disappoint you X5 but Volvo are owned by Ford !!!!
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I had it in mind that they shared engines at some point.
Maybe the heat and old age have addled my brain.
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Actually I think I'm right. Didn't the old Volvo 340 series have a Renault engine at some point? If so, it would clearly pre-date this discussion, so I apologise for the slight on Renault's reputation. I also claim an anorak award for having this histrical information at my fingertips...
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I'm not sure that engines are the source of too many problems in decent modern cars - seems more to do with the various components and gadgets which surround them.
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How did the Pug and citroen engine come out as unreliable. I thought they were the best diesel engines, and yet they aren't according to this report.
Can anyone shed some light on this. Perhaps more people buy them than toyota's etc hence more people will come across problems. Or do they do more miles on average????
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It could be that their unreliability wasn't engine related. I once heard a Ducati owner comment that the engine in his bike was great, never had a problem etc, but it was all the other stuff bolted to and around the engine that gave him grief.
The best diesel engine in the world won't compensate for faulty windows or weak wheel bearing, electrical shorts etc etc.
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The full details will appear in the Which? Car 2003/04 issue in October. One further quote from the present article; "As cars become more complex, it seems engine electrics (alternators, immobilisers and engine management systems, for example) are becoming a major source of breakdowns." And anecdotal confirmation from one of the service reception guys at my local MB dealers that he is not the slightest bit surprised about MB's fall from grace and adding that I'm better off with my pre-1998 car.
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"How did the Pug and citroen engine come out as unreliable?"
Read HJ's column from last Saturday's Telegraph (it should be on the website). Pug 2.0 HDIs keep catching fire (allegedly).
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Aprilia - the problem with cylinder No 1 on smart engines has affected a handful of cars. I've read of just two and that was a couple of years ago.
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Well, I personally know of two. One of these is a colleague - happened three months ago. He rang the servicing dealer saying that the car had a 'misfire' - the service manager made the diagnosis straight away (without needing to see the car) and booked transport to take the car away for its new engine.
The other one I know of belongs to a my daughter's school teacher. Happened just after Christmas.
Given that I only know four people with Smarts this is a bit worring!
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I am a bit sceptical about which. If you study the different models reliability, you will see that the sample sizes are very different. For example, the honda jazz was awarded 100% but the toyota yaris was awarded 99%. However, the yaris has a much bigger sample size in the magazine.
Does this mean the jazz is more reliable???
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The survey reflects my experience of the last 20 years very well.
Biggest disaster Land Rover Freelander. Peugots full of niggly trim and electrical faults, ditto Citroens. Ford average. BMW good.
Hondas (x2) 100% reliable as is brother's Nissan and Father's Toyota.
I did have a reliable rover once, a 218SLD. No, hang on a minute, that was a Honda Concerto with a Rover badge (and a Peugot engine).
With my own money I will only ever buy Japanese from here on in.
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These surveys do give a true basic picture overall, but i consider them more of a satisfaction survey, what has your opinion of the dealer service and prices got to do with reliability?
Also these surveys group for example all A4's together, so if a particular engine was troublesome it would also mark down those that were ok.
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