Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - pullgees

Since the heavy snowfalls in the US there have been two deaths due to carbon monoxide poisoning. www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57568565/mass-boy-die.../

Initial reports suggests the tail pipe was blocked with snow. If that is the case I don't understand how it happened. There is only one place where the exhaust gases can go and that is through the exhaust pipe. If it can't escape out at the back then pressure would build up and gasses would escape through the smallest of gaps in joints in the exhaust system. This gas would be under the vehicle but as quick as it was leaking out it would be blown away by ambiemt air flow wind and breezes. If the gas could not escape throuh the pipe then there would be so much back pressure that the engine would stall, I assume.

Any idea anyone?

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - jamie745

I'd have thought if the exhaust was blocked then the engine wouldn't.........work.

Not well anyway.

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - daveyjp
The snow probably just meant the exhaust fumes were kept in a very confined space around the car and couldn't dissipate into surrounding air. Snowfall in the US has been over a metre.

Car is drawing in air through the vents to keep the inside warm and exhaust fumes are also getting pulled in.

Just found this too:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC526190/
Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - pullgees
The snow probably just meant the exhaust fumes were kept in a very confined space around the car and couldn't dissipate into surrounding air. Snowfall in the US has been over a metre. Car is drawing in air through the vents to keep the inside warm and exhaust fumes are also getting pulled in. Just found this too: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC526190/

That's very interesting. So the CO on a still day would just accumulate around the car especially if there was high snow levels surrounding it. and with the blower on, would be sucked into the interior.

I can see how easy it is to make this mistake as a car in in the open air one would think it was safe to run the engine.

A blocked tailpipoe on it's own without all the other factors involved would not be enough to cause death.

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - craig-pd130

The article states the car was stuck in a snow bank, I'm guessing that it was deep enough into the snow that the exhaust gases couldn't freely escape from the rear of the car and were swirling around and being sucked into the cabin air intake.

I seem to remember reading that modern catalysed cars put out so little CO that it's virtually impossible to get CO poisoning but I'm not sure that's correct.

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - Galaxy

I seem to remember reading that modern catalysed cars put out so little CO that it's virtually impossible to get CO poisoning but I'm not sure that's correct.

Yes, I thought that, too.

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - unthrottled

I seem to remember reading that modern catalysed cars put out so little CO that it's virtually impossible to get CO poisoning but I'm not sure that's correct.

It is correct. But not when started from cold. In very cold conditions the engine will use enrichment for considerable time after starting. I'm still surprised that CO poisoning would be a serious concern though.

It's quite hard to block an exhaust. Try blocking it with your hand. A petrol will build up considerable back presure before choking on its own fumes and stalling. End of CO problem. A diesel will blow silecer before it stalled-and they don't produce much CO anyway.


Edited by unthrottled on 10/02/2013 at 17:04

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - corax

I seem to remember reading that modern catalysed cars put out so little CO that it's virtually impossible to get CO poisoning but I'm not sure that's correct.

I wouldn't like to try it. I've had the beginnings of CO poisoning from an old golf ride on mower and an old VW Beetle engine and that's bad enough - you feel faint and sick.

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - unthrottled

I wouldn't like to try it. I've had the beginnings of CO poisoning from an old golf ride on mower and an old VW Beetle engine and that's bad enough - you feel faint and sick.

Some people are more sensitive than others to low concentrations of CO. Air cooled engines usually run pretty rich But even after spending a couple of hours with the chainsaw belching CO and HC straight into my face I can't say I feel any different. But then I smoke so my bloodstream always contains CO...

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - brum

AFAIK CO poisoning is cumulative. i.e. being exposed to low levels for a long period is the same as exposed to a high level for a short period. Once a red cell has absorbed the CO - which apperently it does so far more readily and in preference to O2, it is effectively u/s until it dies and is replaced by a fresh cell generated from your bone marrow (or something like that.....) which takes days or longer.....(I am not a doctor so I may be wrong)

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - dacouch

A friend of mine who is ex SAS once explained to me how they can make a car explose with a handle of household items, inserting them in the exhaust and then blocking with a banana.

I would have thought the exhaust system is a sealed unit

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - brum

A friend of mine who is ex SAS once explained to me how they can make a car explose with a handle of household items, inserting them in the exhaust and then blocking with a banana.

explosé - apparently it only works with french cars.....

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - Bilboman

The Balvano train disaster was a famous case of CO poisoning, which occurred in Italy at the end of WW2 (forgive the slight tangent here) and, is so often the case, was caused by a combination of factors, which included wartime poverty, black marketeering and low grade coal, as well as an underpowered locomotive, slippery rails and a long uphill tunnel.
tinyurl.com/c5tu474
Since most cars have thermometers and ice warnings fitted, it rather makes me wonder whether CO detectors now so common in homes may one day be fitted to cars.

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - bathtub tom

A friend of mine who is ex SAS once explained to me how they can make a car explose with a handle of household items, inserting them in the exhaust and then blocking with a banana.

You believed him?

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - unthrottled

Let me guess, he could have told you how but he'd have to kill you?

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - dacouch

No he told me and it work, scientifically it would work perfectly.

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - unthrottled

And the oxidant is...?

Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning - corax

Some people are more sensitive than others to low concentrations of CO. Air cooled engines usually run pretty rich But even after spending a couple of hours with the chainsaw belching CO and HC straight into my face I can't say I feel any different. But then I smoke so my bloodstream always contains CO...

You're absolutely right unthrottled. I'm sensitive to that sort of thing. Very good sense of smell - of course that can sometimes be a disadvantage :)

Edited by corax on 11/02/2013 at 14:10