Thanks for all the advice and thoughts guys. I joined Which Legal services (£36.50) for the year and free unlimited legal advice from their lawyers. I was as sure as I could be that I had interpreted the law correctly, but wanted to be certain. I'm impressed by WLS. I phoned them yesterday morning. Shortly after a lawyer phoned me back. Nothing is open and shut in the courts I know that, but she confirmed that the sections of law I had pulled out and applied to my case was 100%. Although she did tell me to dumb down my letter to the dealer as looking like you are professionally trained in law can go against you in the small claims court. She then dictated over the phone the form my letter should take.

She confirmed that the dealers claim that the fault was not present on date of purchase and not serious probably wouldn't get very far. And confirmed that in law the fault appearing after 3 days is strongly in my favour and that the fault does not have to be major. As well as stating that she didn't think a steering column needing to be replaced could ever be described as minor.

As for not using the car and storage of the car, she says I'm holding all the cards. I wrote the letter invoking the sale of goods act, describing the fault and the timescale. Informed them I had taken legal advice from Which's legal team and was rejecting the car. I requested that they make arrangements to pick up the car and refund my debit card in full. I also notified them that if the did not pick up the car I would be seeking secure off street parking for the vehicle and would be seeking redress through the courts for any and all expenses incurred.

Sent recorded delivery yesterday. Should hopefully be with them today. SCC in Northern Ireland is £100 fee. Cheaper than England...possibly because the Max you can claim is £3000 as opposed to £5000.

As for the dealer sweet talking the judge in court by apologising and offering to fix it. Judges are not likely to respond well to anyone they feel is trying to smooze up to them. The guy tried it with me until he realized I wasn't budging...then he just got quite agressive and abusive. Rubbishing me, my knowledge of the law and that of anyone who was advising me on the law!

He has offered to fix it free of charge under warranty and told me thats what the warranty is for. In law as I see it, the only thing he can do is argue that the fault was not present at the time of purchase so that Clegg v Andersen cannot be applied to the case, which would mean I have to give him 3 chances to fix the fault. But the EU directive means he must provide independent evidence the fault was not present...and to the best of my knowledge and research...the fault would have been intermitent for quite some time before the warning light stayed on permanently. Indeed the concesus on the fiat forum is that they'd be willing to bet that the previous owner got rid of car when the light started coming on intermitently as it costs £700 correct it. So under law I do not have to accept a repair. Nor will it look good in court when I describe how they told me it just needed a sensor replaced, when in fact it needed the whole power steering unit and column replaced....fraudulent misrepresentation or as he tried to tell me, they didn't know it would require a new column to fix the fault when they told me it required a new sensor.

So mush as I hate to tempt fate (or fiat for that matter) I'm reasonably confident the law and timescales and seriousness of the fault are all in my favour. No knowing what way a judge will rule or the cards will fall but it feels like I'm sitting with pocket Kings and the garage has decide to see my raise pre flop with 7, 2 off suite!!!

I'll let you know how it progresses

Duplicate post.

Edited by Avant on 20/01/2013 at 17:52

Duplicate post.

Edited by Avant on 20/01/2013 at 17:53

Under current legislation if the car is not on a SORN (Stautory Off Road Notice) it must be insurred. To SORN your car you have to send the tax disk back for a refund and tick the SORN box on the form. Do that and legally you are fine. Link to DVLA site. www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/uninsured-vehicles and also note the link to declare SORN.

However what happens if the lock up your car is in gets broken into, and the car, stolen, damaged or fired and its not insurred. You will not get a penny, you will loose every penny you spent on the car.

Edited by thunderbird on 19/01/2013 at 13:17

Just on the point of returning the car. I spoke to Which Legal Services and their lawyer says as long as I'm no longer using the car, have requested that the car be picked up and the money refunded then thats all I need to do. She says if I leave it at the dealers I may end up having to pay the dealer storage if the claim was unsuccessful. If he doesnt pick it up then I'm quite entitled to charge him any out of pocket expenses connected with storing the car.

My main concern is that although the Law seems to be in my favour, there's a chance I assume that the judge can rule that the dealers offer to fix the fault free of charge is reasonable considering the price and age of the car. I just dont know how that sits with the Clegg v Andersen ruling which states that I dont have to accept a fix if it was a pre existing fault.

My arguement there is that I paid 20% above top book price and expected that premium to be reflected in the quality of the car. And not expect the car to require a £700 repair 3 days after purchase.

Time I guess will tell.

Strangely enough yesterday morning a consummer radio show highlighted the case of a woman who bought a second hand car from the same company. After 3 months the car developed an electrical fault. The woman left the car in and they told her it was just a sensor and it would be covered under warranty. She was informed when the part arrived and subsequently left the car in. On the day she was supposed to pick it up, she was told that the whole electrical system needed replaced at a cost of £680 and the electrics weren't covered under warranty so she'd have to foot the bill!!!

The similarities with my experience are worrying. My fault occurred 3 days into ownership. I was told it was just a sensor and that they'd phone me when the part came in. So I cant help but wonder if I hadn't discovered that the whole steering column would have to be replaced at a cost of £680, and subsequently emailed them to say they had misrepresented the fault, and that I was rejecting the car for a refund; would I have been told after I left it in to get the sensor replaced, "Oh it actually needs a new steering column which isn't covered under warranty and will cost £680! Really does make me wonder.

Both of us were told the cars came with 6 months warranty but neither of us were given any warranty pack with the cars or indeed any mention of what it did and did not cover.

Both of us were told we had simple sensor fault when indeed both fixes cost in the region of £680.

And both of us had to deal with this company denying we had any of the rights we claimed under the SoGA 1979.

The company did reply to the show saying that the staff member was new, hadn't completed all his training yet and they'd be examining their SoGA training for all sales staff.

Hmmm must be quite a few of their sales staff just new and not yet fully trained!!!

At the end of the day its up to the judge to decide if the fault was reasonable to expect, and determine if the car was of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and lasted a reasonable time. And my limited understanding would lead me to believe that the judge could decide it isn't unreasonable to expect to change a power steering column 3 days after purchasing the car, but still deem that the defect present at date of purchase meant the car was not of satisfactory quality when I bought it and so was in breach of the SoGA and therefore in breach of the original purchase contract.

Took car (without prejudice) to an Authorized FIAT dealer total cost of repair £779.59. Total number of times the fault had been registered before light came on for me 18 (19 including when it came on and stayed on)

Never even gave dealer the results. Last email I sent simply stated that I was taking car without prejudice to FIAT dealer....and informed them that a 'letter before claim' would be sent within 2 days to their head office. Phone call from dealer this morning. car gone money refunded.

I thank you all very much. And I should have checked who sent me the link to FAQs...you the man...coz after reading that I knew my case was pretty darn sealed tight...well apart from the lingering doubt that it always comes down to the judge.

Many thanks guys I appreciated all the input. Cheers

Will do Tony.

The following may or may not help some readers, but if it gives just one reader in a similar situation just one hour extra sleep I guess it's worth posting

Some lessons learnt: DISCLAIMER: DON'T TAKE THIS AS GOSPEL: THESE ARE MERELY MY EXPERIENCES

1.There's as many approaches to the small claims court as there are solicitors giving advise. From, 'go in and simply state your case', to, 'make sure if they employ a solicitor or produce reports that you've got the evidence to counter.'.

2.Just because Consumer Line would advice against it, doesn't mean you don't have the right to do it!!!! Namely, 'dont drive the car under any circumstances', when indeed you may well be able to drive it under a very limited number of specific circumstances. But do make sure you tell the dealer why it is necessary (protection of car or to obtain independant evidence, etc) and do make sure you tell them you do it without prejudice to your rejection of the vehicle.

3.You dont always have to present your evidence to secure your rights. In this case (although I have the evidence) the only thing the dealer knew was I was about to drive the car (without prejudice) to an authorized FIAT dealer and issue a 'letter before claim', and hey presto, he agreed to refund me.

4.Much as we try, there's no denying our genes: I do love a good argument and have turned into my father in that respect.

The above is nonsense ,money is not an issue ,in the SCC the only cost to a plaintiff is the court fee of about £250 ,it's much different and potentially much more expensive in a county court . The extract below is from the sale of goods act . (If a product that was not of satisfactory quality at the time of the sale is returned to the retailer, the buyer is entitled to a full refund (if it is within a reasonable time of the sale), I wouldn't simply leave the car with the dealer ,if he doesn't accept responsibility for it ,and damage occurs ,you couldn't return the car to him . Keep it safe and don't use it until you get a judgment .

I do not think you have read my mail or you fail to uderstand what I have written ,I suggested he the OP seeks legal advice is that not correct and for every claim that suceeds in the UK SCC three do not I think you should take your rose tinted classes off.

In the end the OP after much hastle got a result although he is now fighting problems with the bank.

At the other end of the spectrum I purchased a one year old car with 4000 miles on the clock from a franchised dealer just this week. The cost of the car was £141,000 but I am not going into any detail art this point as it is very early in what could become a long saga, but I hope not!

When I got home I noticed a chip on the bonnet which was not there when I bought the car, it had happened on the way home. Much closer inspection revealed that beneath the chip was shiny blue paint - not primer or metal. My son then gave the car a serious going over and has found overspray in six different places which would indicate the car has had a total respray. The work was not done by an approved repairer and so invalidates the paint warranty and seriously devalues the car.

If their approved repairer agrees that the car has been resprayed will this be open and shut or do I have a battle to reject it?

Thank you!