What's with the latest trend of ready mixed screenwash?
Personally I prefer to buy the concentrated stuff and mix it myself. I "used" to be able to buy a 5 litre container of concentrated jollop for around £4 and be able to make up around 50 litres of screenwash from it. Shopping around recently, 5 litres of ready mixed stuff costs around £3 (£5 at motorway service stations)
1. Buying concentrated solution is a lot cheaper than buying it ready mixed.
2. You are paying water rates twice by buying the ready mixed stuff.
3. The ready mixed stuff appears only to give protection down to -7 deg c. A few nights ago the temp was down to -8 deg c, add to that the wind chill factor and the temp was a lot lower.
Rant over, where can I buy concentrated screenwash for a reasonable price? (Excluding Halfords as previous experience of using their stuff stains the paintwork)
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If you've got access to a cash and carry they will probably stock it.
I get it at Macro, can't recall the price but something like £3 or £4 for 5 litres.
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Brian,
No Macro near me unfortunately. Last lot I got was from Woolworths, but now only seem to stock small 1 litre bottles of concentrate, and 5 litres ready mixed.
For the record, I've tried B&Q, Focus, and several supermarkets. No luck, only the ready mixed stuff.
There isn't any new legislation that says how many litres of undiluted chemicals you can buy is there?
I have a Cafco near me. Might give them a call in a minute.
ps, sorry Mark if I've mentioned shop names, but shouldn't have done so.
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DD
Totally agree with you especially about the bit re: low temperatures.
(Just being pedantic, wind chill factor does not lower the temperature. It is a modern thing and is only a "measure" of what temperature it would feel like if there was no wind).
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CM
Yep, windchill could be described as the rate of cooling or heat transfer, as opposed to the absolute temperature.
That's why 50 or 60 mph on a motorbike when the ambient temperature is under 5 degrees celcius feels damn cold!
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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A friend of mine puts a capful of ordinary anti-freeze in and says it works. It certainly doesn't cost much...
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DD, Asda had a mountain of concentrated by the door last Friday, I think 2 ltr bottles; under £2 I recall.
Mark
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Our local "Motorworld" does it in several varieties - Holts, Carplan and Simoniz - Carplan suits me best - it works and it's cheapest! (£3-99 for 5 litres I think)
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Windchill does matter if your washer yets are one top of the bonnet and you are driving along at 70mph!
PS Dont use normal antifreeze, it can stain paintwork!
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My brother always adds a tiny amount of washing up liquid to his screen wash, he claims it cuts through the grime better. He's not bothered about effect on the paintwork.
Sorry to go off thread a little, but does anyone remember the gizmo that connected to the washers and strapped to a radiator hose to give heated washers? If so did they work and can you still get them?
Thanks.
Steve.
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I should imagine you can get that effect by simply swapping the washer bottle/nozzles hose for a much longer one and wrapping it around a suitable hot water hose a few times.
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Yes I guess you could but you tend to find after an initial hot spurt (no I'm not going there!) it goes cold again. As far as I can recall the proper job held a reasonable amount of fluid which allowed a good cleaning before it went cold. The only one I've ever seen was on a VX4/90 in the early eighties.
Steve.
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I think that's a good idea, although of course it doesn't stop the jets from freezing.
You could always go one further and wrap (metal) tubing round the exhaust to get really hot water... :-)
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My previous car (Cavalier) had cut outs under the bonnet to let the heat of the engine warm the washer jets. I noticed on the Vectra that there are rubber bungs in these cut outs. I keep meaning to remove them so that the engine can thaw the jets like before.
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Don't remove the rubber bungs under the washer jets on Vauxhalls, at least not on Astras; there was a Recall to fit these bungs and replace the brake fluid because water from leaking jet/hoses was dripping onto the brake fluid reservoir and contaminating the fluid.
I bought concentrate at a Morrison's filling station last Autumn.
I've also successfully used meths before; very cheap if you can buy it by the four or five litres.
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Don't remove the rubber bungs because water from leaking jet/hoses was dripping onto the brake fluid reservoir and contaminating the fluid.
Hew, yes you're absolutely right about the Astra recall. My Cav never had them fitted as the cut outs were in the sound proofing, whereas on the Vectra the cuts outs are in the steelwork of the bonnet ribbing. I will have to look where these cuts are in comparison to the brake fluid reservior before deciding to remove or not. As it's now got warmer now though I probably shan't bother.
I've also successfully used meths before;
I've previously added a couple of capfuls of meths to help prevent freezing in the past. No ill affects to the paintwork or wiper rubbers either.
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Shigg,
the kit is sold by Easycruise in Kidderminster. tel 01562 827730
also see this old thread.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=i&t=30...4
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Saab used to sell a hotwash kit as an accessory, I had one fitted to my 9000 & it worked well - shame the nozzles froze because they weren't heated, but at least the hot water helped unfreeze them!
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Big John
No, it doesn't - it defies the laws of physics for an object moving through a fluid (air) at temperature X to drop below X!
Windchill is hypothetical temperature, not an actual one - it relates to the extra heat loss from a heated body in moving air compared to still air. The windscreen washer jets will drop from the temperature of your garage to the temperature of the surounding air, but no lower. Yes, they will get there quicker when you drive the car than if you just leave the car on the drive, but that's it.
Regards
John S
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PhilW,
Carplan was the stuff I used to use as well. Haven't phoned Cafco yet. Must put memo in mob phone to do so tomorrow. Otherwise it's a shopping trip at the w/end - yuk.
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PhilW, Carplan was the stuff I used to use as well. Haven't phoned Cafco yet. Must put memo in mob phone to do so tomorrow. Otherwise it's a shopping trip at the w/end - yuk.
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You need to put memo in mobile to remind you, Dynamic??? I'm disappointed, I thought it was all down to your amazing powers of recollection ;)
HF
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You need to put memo in mobile to remind you, Dynamic???
HF, my short term memory is rubbish, but as you know I've got this ability to remember stuff (even pointless nonsense) from ages ago. Maybe I've got a thick head and it takes a while for data to sink in, but once there it takes a long time to escape again :o)
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Just did semi-long-ish reply, Dynamic, and somehow managed to wipe it out just prior to posting. Won't write it again now as way past my bedtime (breathe sigh of relief - I can hear you!) but the sentiments are still there - you have a brilliant memory, long and short term, so don't knock it! Was going to challenge you to a duel on the 'Silly Thread' but I know you'd win hands down!
Take care
HF
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Just did semi-long-ish reply, Dynamic, and somehow managed to wipe it out just prior to posting.
I think we've all done that at some time or another HF. Only today I was replying to Anthony's Cavalier problem in the Tech forum, was in a hurry as I was at work and hit the cancel key instead of the post this message key. Gone forever.
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I think we've all done that at some time or another HF. Only today I was replying to Anthony's Cavalier problem in the Tech forum, was in a hurry as I was at work and hit the cancel key instead of the post this message key. Gone forever.
Yep, I know Dynamic - ah well, frustrating but never mind. See ya soon and take care
HF
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DD
If you have a Costco cash and carry near you try them. They have quite a bit of motoring stuff at keen prices. They do 5 ltrs of concentrated "Holts" I think for less than a fiver. I've been using it for over 12 months with no problems.
Bill
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Costco cash and carry near you
Who? :o)
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>> Costco cash and carry near you Who? :o)
>>
www.costco.co.uk/
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I don't know what the quality is like but my local "Pound Shop" had litres of concentrate for ????? - Yes £1.
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DD and Shigg: CM is right in his pedantic mode - windchill is an artificial definition, not a reality in Physics. It is what the human body feels rather than what the real temperature is. Do a search and you will get all the facts on this.
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This must be the case, otherwise wouldn't your external temperature sensor reading plunge by several degrees when you got moving? FWIW mine stays pretty constant at most speeds, in fact it actually seems to go UP by a degree or so if I push the speed much over 80mph. probably buffeting near the sensor feeding a little warm air from the engine towards it. But windchill? Nope.
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A dry sensor doesn't mention windchill, becuase it is not affected. A method of quantifying the windchill effect is to have two thermometers, one dry and one with a wet cloth around the bulb. The wet one will read the winchill-affected temperature. But it's still not a factor, just an effect. (another pedant!)
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Higher up, John S said that 'temperature will drop to the ambient but no lower'. That is true for a dry object such as a temp.sensor. However a current of wind over the washer jet will tend to evaporate the diluted screenwash in the nozzle; this process extracts 'latent heat' which forces the liquid to cool. As the more volatile component is IPA (or maybe meths), after a while the residue becomes increasingly water, and may well refreeze. If you stop the car for a few minutes, the nozzle may thaw as it returns to ambient temp - this is not necessarily due only to heat from the engine.
This extraction of latent heat is partly why we feel 'wind-chill', and also why we sweat to cool down.
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DD and Shigg: CM is right in his pedantic mode - windchill is an artificial definition,
ok, perhaps windchill was the wrong term. What I meant was that although water can freeze if left stationary, it must freeze quicker if freezing cold air is moving around it. The reverse of a convection oven really. A convection oven cooks thing a lot quicker than a regular oven.
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Thanks for the info flat in fifth, I'll checkout the thread.
I don't understand how I got dragged into the windchill thing, I never mentioned it, all I know is that when it's cold and the wind blows that I was born in the wrong climate or as my grandma said "Chipshop vinegar for blood".
Steve.
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Another way to look at it is this:
It's a hot day in your office, so you put a fan on. You feel cooler in the breeze - now that's the windchill effect. The temperature's the same in the room but the body feels a cooling effect caused by increased rate of heat loss across the skin. I wish the BEEB had never begun mentioning it, the number of people I've overheard who are confused by it!
Baz
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Shigg: Sorry, my fault. I read the message by Big John above your first post on this thread, and then blamed you for its reference to windchill, in error! Apologies.
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Our local Somerfield (Liphook, Hampshire) currently has 5 litres of Carplan concentrated screen wash for £2.49. Sounds a good deal.
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Now he tells me :o)
Yes, a very good deal by the sounds of it.
I was less than 5 minutes away from a Somerfield store yesterday when I called into a motorists discount centre and bought 5 litres for £5.49 instead :o(
Thanks for everyones suggestions. I was beginning to think the premixed rip off stuff was taking over from the concentrated stuff.
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And everyone thinks that £2.49 for 5 litres of screenwash is a good deal.
Paid US$1.99 ie about £1.24 for 1 US gallon (about 3.8litres) of concentrate in a Virginia gas station last year. ie bit more than 30% cheaper per litre.
Still rip off Britain I'm afraid.
Another example B&D cordless screwdriver $19.99 (=~ £12.50)
UK price £24.95 :(
Only difference is the charger unit.
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It can't be that expensive judging by how much screenwash covers me and the bike when I ride behind some cars. I was behind a Jag last month and it must have put out a litre in one squirt, there was an explosion of water on his screen that then travelled three cars back.
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It can't be that expensive judging by how much screenwash covers me and the bike when I ride behind some cars. I was behind a Jag last month and it must have put out a litre in one squirt, there was an explosion of water on his screen that then travelled three cars back.
yes us car drivers do that so as to warn vehicles behind they are tooo close
chris
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Anyone know what is so special about VW group Windscreen Clear fluid?
The ingredients, listed in German, are the usual- less than 5% surfactant/detergent, alcohol,glykolether? and colouring.
Why is this the only stuff recommended for fan type washers.
I've been merrily using Holts stuff between services with no problems.
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I've noticed the driver's side washer jet to occasionally get clogged up with blue residue on my Octavia with fan type washer jets, I normally squirt a car jetwash lance at it to clear it for a couple of thousand miles. I wasn't aware VW Group actually recommended a specific screenwash for these type of washers!?
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I can offer a little knowledge on this as I am an industrial chemist. Most of these formulations will contain very similar if not identical ingredients. The majority consist of Iso-propyl alcohol ( to lower the freezing point), a bit of soap (surfactant), a little glycerol or glycol (again, inhibits freezing and can adjust viscosity) plus a colour for marketing/branding. It's very unlikely that VW will make their own - it's most probably contracted out to a mixing plant, who probably makes it by the tonne and just package it as per manufacturers instructions. The recommendation to use VW will most probably be good old marketing hype. Probably 3x normal price!
It's easy to make your own, just get some meths or IPA, add a little soap (washing up liquid v.good - don't worry about the salt content of that, it's zilch compared to road spray), make up to volume and chuck it in!
Obviously it's only worth while if the meths is v.cheap. I get it by the gallon in France, they're a lttle less paranoid over there!
Baz
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"Obviously it's only worth while if the meths is v.cheap. I get it by the gallon in France, they're a lttle less paranoid over there!"
Why are the French trusted to buy industrial alcohol and methylated spirit in bulk, own guns, drive without speed cameras and buy petrol and diesel without taxes "to save the planet" (motoring link), whereas we can't go outside the door without being spied on by CCTV?
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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But also don't neglect the quality of the main ingredient - the water. I use the distilled variety (suitable for common or garden steam irons) because I found the fan nozzles on my Grand Cherokee were clogging up over the months with calcium deposits similar to those you might find on a showerhead nozzle. I cleaned them up with a few drops of de-scaler brushed on with an old toothbrush and since then they have been fine.
IMO, don't always assume manufacturer's recommendations are just hype without conclusive proof.
CMark
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Very stupid HFy type question - what's wrong with a bit of washing up liquid in a bucket of water? I always thought that was ok - obviously not, but why?
HF
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Very stupid HFy type question - what's wrong with a bit of washing up liquid in a bucket of water? I always thought that was ok - obviously not, but why?
1. The mixture would freeze in cold conditions.
2. You'd have a hard job topping up your washer bottle under the bonnet if you were to use just a bucket.
3. WUL contains quite powerful chemicals and could strip any protection (polish/wax) from your paintwork.
4. I said ironing, not washing up :o)
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