Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - C5PO

I have had problem with the automatic gearbox changing from 4th gear up into 5th & 6th gears when going up through the gears at around 3,000 rpm. I have taken it up to the redline before pulling back on the speed and changed gear manually. My local dealer looked at this problem for the first time back in April this year when it was in for service. They said they couldn't replicate it and all was alright. The car was back at the same dealer for a recall and fix some other problems in late May. I asked them to look at this same gear change problem again, but still denied it was happening. The other problems they fixed back in May had gone wrong again, and still I had the gear change problem. The same dealer sent out their senior technician on test drive with me and he experienced the problem and agreed that it was a cause for concern. The car was returned to me later that day, and I was told that I had fitted the wrong tyres to the front and it was this that was causing the problem. Both front and back tyres are the same (225, 55,17) apart from the rear set are 97W rating where as the front are 101W, a difference of just over 4% on the load distribution. The company who supplied the tyres have hit the roof as they stand by what they have fitted, pointing out that they supply the Citroen dealer who made the diagnosis.

My question is: Has anyone ever heard of such a situation, and could somebody explain to me how such a small difference in tyre spec. can make such a difference. Citroen UK at Coventry are backing this theory to the hilt.

As a foot note, I changed the tyres at the front from the factory fitted tyres on the last Saturday in July, yet reported the problem back in March/April and again in May. As I said earlier they said they could not replicate the problem and nothing was wrong with the gears until now.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - unthrottled

That's the most optimistic diversionary tactic I've ever heard of.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Avant

And the first automatic 2CV I've ever heard of (just imagine the 0-60 time....zzzz) It must be a C5.

Anyway I'll move this to Technical.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - C5PO

Sorry about the confusion it is a C5 Tourer.

Anyway, I have today been across to another dealer at the request of Citroen UK. They were very helpful and brought out the Senior Technician who told me that as soon as he heard that the car was not changing from 4th gear into 5th and 6th he knew it was the tyres. To back up his theory he produced a ring binder with updates delivered by Citroen to Senior Technicians on any new faults that arise when their cars have been in service for some time. And not covered in the normal manual. The problem only occurs in certain C5 gearboxes (not all), and will occur if the tread is low (3mm and below) or different tyres to those already in place from the factory (Michelin 225, 45, 17, 97W). Although there is no advice given in their handbook supplied with the vehicle, a sticker on the offside door column displays what tyres are fitted along with correct pressures. Citroen Customer Services say that this is enough for them to demonstrate that they advise only this tyre should be fitted. They have also told me that if the current tyres are not replaced with the correct ones when the vehicle is returned at the end of the lease period, they will make a charge accordingly. Their argumant has, I feel, so many holes in it, but they are not budging from their position.

They will not give me a copy of the updated fault diagnosis that the senior technicians hold, nor the date on which it was issued. Nor will they say why the tecnician from the original dealership failed to inform me of this problem when he had the car in to deal with the fault on 2 occasions in April and May. This is despite the service department trying to get me to change my front tyres (albeit that they had a few millimetres of thread left) on both occasions.

Is there someone out thre who can give me some advice either about Citroen, the problem itself, or any legal position?

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - gordonbennet

No help to you i'm afraid, but thats another car off my list for two reasons.

1, i will not be dictated to re which tyre make i will fit, BMW and their runflats are out for the similar reasons unless the car has room under boot floor for a spare and necessary tools.

2, never heard such a load of baloney in all me days from the dealers, if that car is so susceptable to a minute difference in tyre as to suffer gearbox problems when the tyres get down to 3mm or an owner goes for a better tyre, then i for one won't be buying into the con, it'll be a nightmare as things wear in due course.

As i posted on another thread, those simple and basic Dacia Dusters get more attractive every day.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - focussed

Just thinking aloud here.I would try swapping front and rear tyres around and see if it changes the situation or ask the dealership to test the car with what they say are the correct tyres-they could "borrow" them from a new stock vehicle for an hour.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - C5PO

"Just thinking aloud here.I would try swapping front and rear tyres around and see if it changes the situation or ask the dealership to test the car with what they say are the correct tyres-they could "borrow" them from a new stock vehicle for an hour."

You would think that could do that for me just to show me that it is genuinely the case. In fact I'll ring the dealer and ask if they could fit the

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - C5PO

The thing is though, Citroen do not tell this to anyone who bus the car, and you'd be hard pushed I think to find anyone other than me who has been given this story. Citroen have produced a sub standard gearbox and are trying to avoid refunding me the money I have paid. Am I right in thinking that BMW are up front with their runflat tyres? As for the 3mm issue surely the tyre is still servicable with that amount of tread, I'm sure the tyre manufacturers would agree. And while we are on the subject of tyre manufacturers, do Pirelli, Bridgestone, Dunlop and the rest of them know that their tyres are not fit for Citroens? It would be good to know if they are aware.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - daveyjp
Where vehicles have specific recommended tyres they often have additional markings. Jaguar use J stamped Pirellis and MB use MO stamped Michelins.
Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - rjoscely

Hi,

I have a C5 auto Tourer, 58 Regn. 75,000 miles. It is fitted with Michelin 225/ 55 W 17 101W Primacy3 tyres on the front, fitted July 2013 by KwikFit. In the last couple of months I have had the same problem as you with failure to shift up to 5th and 6th. 1st time, pulling over onto the hard shoulder and then pulling away again, the problem resolved itself, but very unnerving at the time.

Did you get any further with Citroen? Did you ever get sight of the internal Citroen report or any reference code to it? I would very much appreciate any thoughts / information. Thanks.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Ben79

Michelin suggest fitting new tyres to the rear so I'd suggest swapping front and rear tyres and see what happens.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Dave in Norfolk
I too have started to high auto gearbox shifting problems with my 2009 C5 2.0 HDI Exclusive Tourer. It has become very reluctant to shift up to 6th when anything more than moderate throttle pressure is applied. Normally, it has moved through all gears smoothly and generally went from 4th to 5th and 6th around 2000-2250rpm, which felt spot on. It still does this sometimes but more and more frequently it just won't shift up on it's own, reaching over 3500rpm before I step in and do it manually. I've tried easing the throttle pressure as that has always worked in all other auto's I've driven but to no avail.

I find the tyre explanation implausible but it does seem to have become an issue only since I had new front tyres and brakes fitted earlier this year. I am currently running BF Goodrich 225/55 R17 101W all round and they were fitted by the Citroen main dealer, so why would they be supplying tyres that aren't right for the car - what a crazy situation.

It's now due for it's 120k service so I'll be bringing this up when I book it in so it'll be interesting to find out what they say (Duff Morgan in Norwich)
Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Dave in Norfolk
And I also have another issue I wonder if anybody else has experienced - my offside rear door seems to have taken in water so when you open/close it you can hear the water sloshing around inside. I'm concerned about the electrics in the door so I'm considering drilling a hole in the lowest part of the underside of the door to let the water escape and then plug it with a grommet.

Anyone got any other suggestions?

Cheers
Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - gordonbennet

Is there a service regime for the auto boxes on these cars, i presume one would already have had 2 or more transmission oil changes by the time 120k has been covered.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Dave in Norfolk
The car has a complete Citroen main dealer service history every 20k as specified, so if the auto box oil is a service item it should have been done, but I will be asking the question when it goes in again soon. Thanks.
Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - gordonbennet
The car has a complete Citroen main dealer service history every 20k as specified, so if the auto box oil is a service item it should have been done, but I will be asking the question when it goes in again soon.

Main dealer history doesn't always mean a lot, as goal posts tend to be on castors.

Many premium makers went through a phase of sealed for life...pause for guffaws...auto transmissions in the noughties, that goal post been silently shifted when those lives turned out to be remarkably short...imagine the yah boo finger pointing had this been a publicly acknowledged U turn by Toyota for instance, who incidentaly never went down this rutted road.

The ironic thing being that if make specialist indy serviced, they seldon followed sheep like such idiotic non servicing ideas, and cars they maintained got transmission oil changes despite apparently being unecessary till the hymn sheet turned.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Manatee
And I also have another issue I wonder if anybody else has experienced - my offside rear door seems to have taken in water so when you open/close it you can hear the water sloshing around inside. I'm concerned about the electrics in the door so I'm considering drilling a hole in the lowest part of the underside of the door to let the water escape and then plug it with a grommet. Anyone got any other suggestions? Cheers

It will be an unusual door if it doesn't already have a drainhole in it. But it is a Citroen, so who knows?

I'd be looking for the existing hole with the plan being to unblock it.

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Dave in Norfolk
Just had a good look at the underside of the rear door and I can't see a drain plug anywhere, so it looks like I'll need to get my drills out!
Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - gordonbennet
Just had a good look at the underside of the rear door and I can't see a drain plug anywhere, so it looks like I'll need to get my drills out!

Thats odd, wonder if its had a new door skin at some time, most doors have small shaped slots down by the outer skin to allow drainage....some of my older models had huge holes there you could get your hand in..:0)

Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Dave in Norfolk
Update on my problems........
Car went in to Duff Morgan Citroen in Norwich and I'm pleased to report that the auto box now seems back to normal after a software update and yes, there is a drain point on the offside rear door so they cleared that out so I no longer hear water sloshing around when I brake!

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions
Citroen 2CVC5 HDi Auto Tourer - Automatic gear change into 5th & 6th - Diane in Hampshire

Just wanted to say I have had exactly the same problem with my 6 year old C5 HDI tourer, and found all the comments very helpful. My local 'oily rag' garage solved the problem immediately when I told them of this Forum, by swapping the rear wheels for the front ones. Gearbox works perfectly now. It was interesting that the semi auto/manual gearbox was fine, even when swapping from auto to manual whilst cruising. Citroen dealer just sucked their teeth, and blabbed on about computer software updates at huge expense. My oily mechanics scratched their heads when the wheel swapping worked, no idea why or how. Still it hasn't put me off the C5, just ordered a brand new one. Lovely car to travel in and drive.