Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - xtrailman

Reading the cx-5 brochure describes the i-stop system.

" this advanced system uses combustion energy rather than the starter motor for a smoother, quicker restart - just 0.35 secs for the petrol and 0.04 for the diesel"

The system puts the "engine on standby"

So my question is what is standby, and how does the engine start?

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - unthrottled

With a direct injection system and a common rail fuel system, you can inject the fuel into the cylinder that's just past TDC on the firing stroke. You either ignite it with a spark plug or a glow plug in the case of a diesel (compression will leak down so compression ignition is not possible with a stationary engine.

Engine standby means that the ECU and ignition system remain 'live' whilst the engine is stationary.

It's marketing spin. There was a trick whereby you could start Ford Ts with 'combustion energy' by blipping the throttle as you switched it off. This flooded the cylinders with fuel. To restart the hot engine, you simply moved the spark timing lever until the spark plug of the relevant cylinder fired. It (hopefully) saved you having to crank the engine by hand.

90 years later and Mazda have reinvented it.

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - Pondlife

I remember hearing that on old V12 engines, one of the cylinders would always be in the correct position and full of mixture. So all it needed was a spark and the engine would start.

The throttle-blip thing on the model T is interesting - I wonder if that's where the old practice of giving the engine a quick rev before switching off comes from. This isn't so common now, but you still see people doing it occasionally.

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - unthrottled

It'll help any carbed engine to start...until all that petrol dissolves the oil off the bores and you lose compression!

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - xtrailman

Mazda are claiming the diesel engine is started this way, are you saying it can't?

Or are you saying the engine will not be fully stationary?

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - unthrottled

No, I'm saying it doesn't really matter how it is started. Crank a warm engine with an ordinary starter. If it doesn't immediately fire, there's something wrong with it! It's an interesting way of starting an engine, but I don't see any tangible benefit.

Compressed air used to be a common way of starting truck engines, but then electric starter motors became light and reliable. Now, it only has novelty value.

It just looks like a way of hyping up the 'skyactive' engine range. It pees me off when the automotive sector think they've reinvented the diesel engine. The Heavy Duty sector were playing with turbocharged direct injection, low compression diesels 50 years ago, whereas the automotive sector only jumped on the bandwagon about 15 years ago.

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - Avant

" Crank a warm engine with an ordinary starter. If it doesn't immediately fire, there's something wrong with it!"

That's certainly true now, and was always true of the good old SU carburettor, one of the plus points of BMC / BL in the old days.

But 60s and 70s Fords and Hillmans were notoriously difficult to start when hot, and I think the original carburetted VW Golf was poor at this too. Just imagine the nightmare of a stop-start system being fitted to a Ford Anglia.....

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - unthrottled

Probably vapour lock in the carburettor. My carbed Toyota would start immediately without choke and would settle down to a steady 500 RPM idle. Inexplicably, it would always stall 30 seconds later. I decided to 'have a look' at the carb to see what was wrong with it and consulted the Heynes. There was a beautiful exploded diagram of the carburettor complete with its three thermostatically controlled choke regimes, idle jet, vacuum operated secondary venturi and mechanically operated accelerator pump and decided that I would leave it for another day. Mechanical marvel, but I'd take an SU any day!

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - xtrailman

Im still not getting it.

How are they starting the diesel engine with out a starter motor?

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - unthrottled

I think they must be using combustion to assist the starter motor, rather than entirely displace it.

My guess is that when the engine is stopped the glow plugs are switched on. The accumulator rail can hold it's pressure if suitably designed. When you want to start the engine, fuel is injected into the relevant cylinder and the glow plug will act as an ignition source. Sounds a bit rough, like a diesel without an anti-shudder valve on switch off.

Black cabs normally have to switch off when waiting in the rank, and they're switching on and off all day long. Starters seem to work ok for them!

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - xtrailman

Thanks unthrottled.

Modern cars are complicated.

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - TeeCee

There was a trick whereby you could start Ford Ts with 'combustion energy' by blipping the throttle as you switched it off.

In a similar vein, an ex-colleague had a Velocette Venom motorcycle. The drill to stop it was to hold down the decompression lever, giving: thumpthumpthump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump as it stopped.

On a hot day, walking away from the silent machine he'd sometimes hear from behind him: BANG! Thump thump thump thumpthumpthumpthump......

Mazda CX-5 - stop start system - bathtub tom

A mate had a Venom, evil thing. His party trick was letting others try and start it without breaking their ankle!