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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against downsizing petrol engines-it's sensible. I just wish the jounos would remember to omit the hyperbole when they're lazily paraphrasing a company press release!
1.5 seconds=lag free!! Not when you're pulling out from a junction it isn't...
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An, I , me, mysel, personally,
(An despite my forum name)
think that the wee 1.2TSI from VW is an absolute cracker,
mind ..............I haint tried any o the others yet.
an I still got mild misgivings aboot buying the diesel Yaris for wor daughter
as i had seriously bin considering..................................................a petrol
GULP!
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as i had seriously bin considering..................................................a petrol
Petrol's great......
...for chainsaws, lawnmowers, local grocery getters etc!
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Diesel's great......
....for Fire Brigade demos, wrecking motorcycles, producing windscreen "road film" that yer washer gunk won't touch, gassing the bloke behind you with an 'orrible pong and maintaining the smog cloud over Belgium.
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1.5 seconds=lag free!! Not when you're pulling out from a junction it isn't...
Well, to be honest in my experience, it's about the same as the 1.6TDCI in the Focus, particularly the 90hp version. Go to nip out, get it off boost, sit in middle of the road for seconds waiting for the crunch, then suddenly a big blob of torque, scrabbling tyres, torque steer, then rev limiter. Rubbish.
Is it any wonder DMFs burn out on small over-turboed diesels?
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1.5 seconds=lag free!! Not when you're pulling out from a junction it isn't...
Well, to be honest in my experience, it's about the same as the 1.6TDCI in the Focus, particularly the 90hp version. Go to nip out, get it off boost, sit in middle of the road for seconds waiting for the crunch, then suddenly a big blob of torque, scrabbling tyres, torque steer, then rev limiter. Rubbish.
Is it any wonder DMFs burn out on small over-turboed diesels?
Sounds like a driver in the wrong gear to me....
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Petrols are good. Diesels are naff. So carmakers in their infinite wisdom are trying to make petrols as naff as diesels?
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1.5 seconds=lag free!! Not when you're pulling out from a junction it isn't...
Well, to be honest in my experience, it's about the same as the 1.6TDCI in the Focus, particularly the 90hp version. Go to nip out, get it off boost, sit in middle of the road for seconds waiting for the crunch, then suddenly a big blob of torque, scrabbling tyres, torque steer, then rev limiter. Rubbish.
Is it any wonder DMFs burn out on small over-turboed diesels?
Sounds like a driver in the wrong gear to me....
So, what other gear would you suggest? I tend to use 1st when pulling out of junctions? Or should I be using 5th, brainiac?
I think you've never driven a 90hp Focus 1.6TDCI, so I think you really have no clue what you're talking about.
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Have to agree with you about small turbo diesels, I drove a new renault scenic 1.5 dci recently and found it to be dangerous when trying to enter roundabouts or other moving traffic. It worked fine once I was above 2000 rpm but I could not live with the turbo lag, it was dreadful- put me off totally.
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In all my turbo-diesel driving experience I have never found turbo lag to be an issue, I drive in true diesel afficanido style at low revs using the inherent diesel grunt, and brain function to anticipate the correct gear required ahead.
Perhaps I am merely an undemanding driver?
Though I kinda doubt that.
Cheers
M
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Compared to the turbo lag I experienced in the early 80's when I test drove a turbo petrol (nothing upto 4,000 rpm then all hell broke loose) the slight delay you experience today is minimal. As recent posters have said its simply a matter of being in the correct gear which applies to all engines and not just turbo ones.
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In all my turbo-diesel driving experience I have never found turbo lag to be an issue, I drive in true diesel afficanido style at low revs using the inherent diesel grunt, and brain function to anticipate the correct gear required ahead.
Perhaps I am merely an undemanding driver?
I'm guessing you're not a driver of the small capacity diesels, like the 1.2TDI, 1.5dCi, and even the 1.6TDCI.
I drove diesels for a long time, from the 2.3 XDIII in a 504 pickup (you could start off in 5th on the flat if you were careful with that), a 1.9 F4Q Clio, and a 2.2d Mk1 Laguna. Then in to the turbocharged era, with the Y20DTH 2.0DTi, then the Z19DTH 1.9CDTI Astras.
None of those engines I've mentioned had any problems pulling hard from idle. That's why these new generation small commonrails can leave people like me, who've been driving DERVs for 20+ years, sitting in the middle of a roundabout wondering WTF just happened, and why there's no torque.
Turbos on diesels used to be there for boosting power above 2000rpm. Now they seem to be there to give tiny engines a bit of pull, and to clean up emissions. Very different to the old 1.9 and above diesels of the 80s and 90s.
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Tsk tsk
Proper diesels
(i) Citroen BX 1.9 Hmmmm turbo??cant remember
(ii) Vento with 1.9 TDI (short lived)
(iii) Galaxy with 1.9 TDI 110BHP, a peach of an installation , lugged from about 1250 rpm, & rarely past 2 , 2500 rpm
(iv) Octavia 1.6 TDI 105 BHP wit der DSG
Plus wor daughters 1.4 diesel Yaris.
So Ok all "large capacity" diesels, or with variable vane turbos, the 90 BHP Galaxy was a proper slug in comparison to the 110 trick turbo one.
Any possible deficiencies with the wee 1.6 TDI in the Octavia are well masked by the slick action of the DSG
The wee Yaris got a trick turbo too, & it appears to work as intended.
I pick my diesels with care.
Edited by dieseldogg on 16/02/2012 at 10:35
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Yaris is a light wee motor, so not so bad.
Putting a 1.6 diesel in cars like the Mondeo, C5, Focus, Octavia is madness, off boost there's no hope of those small diesels pulling 1500+kg of motor off the line.
So, lots of revs to make sure you're on boost, off the line like a rocket, clutch slipping, tyres spinning for most people who don't have good clutch control.
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Erm,
Not to be argumentative but!
The 1.6 is fine in the Octavia, it has for some reason got a bad press?
but is essentially the same power output os the old 1.9TDI with the variable turbo.
I cannot fault the engine.
I have never abused a clutch, no need to, you want to inspect a still-good clutch with 241,000 on it??
Those "dorks" as per your comment above should not be driving as they either lack
(i) Cognative skills
or
(ii) Fine motor skills
or
(iii) Most probably both
Derp!
as wor Son would say
Anyway anyway as commented before the wee 1.6TDI with the 7 speed DSG is a well judged & executed match.
well it will be when the sort the low speed manouvering "quirks" in the dry DSG
Edited by dieseldogg on 16/02/2012 at 11:31
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I'm in no way trying to be argumentative, just telling people my experiences of driving some of the fleet motors. :)
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I find the small 1.3cdti in my Astra more than adequate. Everyone on this forum warned me off by saying it wouldn't move ay low revs.
Nonsense. It pootles round happily at low revs round town, and if you need to pull out in a small gap, its not that hard to hold the revs at 2000 is it? Any other type of driving its great and on the motorway, pulls nicely in all gears. I get better performance than my old Focus tddi. Thanks to the eco loons, these small engines are the way forward so get used to the idea. And don't foget, formula 1 uses tiny engines these days, and no one complains about thier performance.
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And don't foget, formula 1 uses tiny engines these days, and no one complains about thier performance.
They use tiny engines because the rules effectively mandate this. Performance?? Pfft!
F1 enginers are are horrible. They have narrower power bands, shorter lives, and heavier consumption than a larger engine spinning at more modest revs.
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And don't foget, formula 1 uses tiny engines these days, and no one complains about thier performance.
F1 engines are 2.4 litre V8, in what world is that tiny?
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And don't foget, formula 1 uses tiny engines these days, and no one complains about thier performance.
F1 engines are 2.4 litre V8, in what world is that tiny?
Yes, I use 19,000rpm driving one mile down to the shops after installing coolant heated to 95C and leaving the engine to warm up before I try to start it.. cos if I do not, then it will not as the clearances mean it's virtually locked solid when cold..
Yes..Formual One reflects real life motoring:-)
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Yes..Formual One reflects real life motoring:-)
Total waste of space. The average car engine owes more to 1960's truck engines than it does to Formula one.
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F1 is set to be moving to small capacity (1.6 I think) 4 pot turbos - assumng Ferrari agree - they are the only manufacturer fighting the new engine regs. Given that's the way road cars are going, it makes sense.
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