Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 21:46
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
The engine on my 2002 espace 2.2dci started misfiring and engine become very noisy. The knocking noise is very loud and there is a complete loss of power. Took it to a local garage who looked at it but couldn't resolve problem. Took it to Renault who looked at it and couldnt diagnose problem.(fleeced me out of nearly £400) Want a further 10hrs labour to remove head and inspect it. Told them not to bother and drove it home. Engine still starts fine doesn't seem to misfire now but is noisy and low on power. On journey home on 2 occasions the engine note changed significantly and car took off. However on both occasions the the heart beat signal came on immediately and engine reverted back to same problem. Any ideas. Had can from new fully serviced and only 68k miles. Seems a shame that we should scrap car. Rest of car in tip top condition
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Sun 11 Dec 2011 00:51
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - gordonbennet

This is only a general suggestion and you could have an almightly can of worms on your hands there, i have no knowledge of you car at all.

Remove the EGR valve, inspect and clean it out, and or seek advice from a Renault forum how to by pass it completely.

The dealer is the wrong place for expertise for this anyway, you need a competent Diesel repair shop with full facilities, ask local taxi drivers for suggestions if you can't find one.

Edited by gordonbennet on 11/12/2011 at 00:53

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Sun 11 Dec 2011 08:40
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - Peter.N.

I would agree, take it to a diesel specialist, they usually know what they are doing.

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Sun 11 Dec 2011 09:30
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
When I took it to Renault they we're sure they could sort the problem. The engineer that looked at it has great experience with that engine so I was confident they would sort it. Won't be using them again. They have told me they have check the epr valve and all the normal things and all was ok that's why they want to dismantle the engine at great cost.

What I can't figure out is why the fault momentarily disappeared twice while driving home. That's why I thought it might be an injector. Renault assured me these were ok that's why Im at a loss.
I live in south Ayrshire. Diesel experts are far and few between. I'm tempted to buy some second hand injectors and swap them over to see if there is a change in the symptoms before I try and find someone to strip the engine down.
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Sun 11 Dec 2011 10:06
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - dieselnut

If it is an intermittent injector you could try running some injector cleaner through. Either pour the cleaner direct into the fuel filter, or run the tank low & put a couple of bottles in there.

It may make no difference but just could give you a result.

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Sun 11 Dec 2011 13:29
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
That thought has crossed my mind. I will try and get some this week and run it through. Watch this space

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Sun 11 Dec 2011 14:28
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - Fernando P

Do you know if the Renault dealer interrogated the CLIP computer and what, if any, faults emerged? From the (lack of) information supplied in your post it is not easy to focus on a diagnosis. How frequently has the oil been changed and what oil is used in the engine? If the oil for a 2002 2.2 DCi is not changed more frequently that the over long normal 18K/2 yr service interval and a lighter oil ie fully syn 5w/40 is not used, you need to beware of turbocharger problems. Although that does not sound like a problem from what you have described so far. As mentioned above, you are again strongly recommended to find an independent diesel expert who can simply listen to the engine and have a good idea of what is wrong.

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Sun 11 Dec 2011 16:59
Renaut grand espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
The oil has been changed approx every 10k and has always been supplied by the garage at great expense. When the garage told me that they wanted the extra to continue to look for the problem I told them not to bother and put it back together they said they would only charge me for fresh oil as they had the sump of to check the crank and big ends. When I went to collect the car they told me me that they had put 6 litres of oil back. Are you ready for the litre charge. £18!!! Per litre total £108 plus vat. You can imagine what I told them to do with it. They cam back and charged me £27 for the oil!!! What a cheek considering they had basically condemned the car.
Back to the fault when the car was in the first garage they had checked the computer there was an injector fault code. I told the Renault garage and when they returned the car to me they said that the injectors appeared to be ok.

The problem I have with that is the fact that these 2 brief incidents when the engine note changed and the heart rate symbol appeared on the dash followed by service and the fault was back. On both occaisions it was only a fraction of a second which lead us to the idea of double checking the injectors.
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Sun 11 Dec 2011 21:41
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - Fernando P

You need to find out what the injector fault code flagged up by the computer was, which sounds like the problem anyway. If the first garage diagnosed the problem why did you not get them to fix it for you? You should not consider interfering with the injectors until you have a proper diagnosis of the problem and the specialist help to resolve it, which will be cheaper for you in the long run. If looked after properly, the 2.2 dci engines will go on for many miles and yours should be just run in, wear wise, at its present mileage!

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Sun 11 Dec 2011 21:54
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
The thing that concerned the first garage was the fact there is a horrid knocking noise and they asked me to speak to Renault for advice. I agreed and Renault initially offered to diagnose the fault for £55+vat. Spoke to first garage and we were both of the opinion Renault garage Renault engine Renault experts why not give it to them to do. Little did either of us know that renault too would have trouble with the problem. As you say regular service intervals and these engine should go for ever.

I think I'm going to try some jet cleaner and see if anything changes. If no change I'll take it back to first garage to inspect the injectors and recheck fault codes. I really like the car as it suits all our need and will probably get the top end reconditioned if the injectors are ok. I know a lot of expense but I'd sooner put £1000 into this car rather than invest in another car. (most of the running gear has been replace over the last 2 years).

I have looked on the Internet but ther are no diesel specialist within 100miles of us. I'd rather not drive it that far at the moment.
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Mon 12 Dec 2011 14:42
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
I have put some injector cleaner in the filter and the rest in the fuel tank. I have done some of my own investigations. Firstly the horrid knocking (almost thumping) sound is most noticeable from the air filter. I have removed the filter and the noise is much louder. If I cover the inlet pipe from the filter it sucks the pipe to my hand and you can hear the engine struggling to breath. I then removed the oil filler cap and listened down the pipe. All I hear is the sound of best I can describe as a sewing machine with no mocking or banging. Finally I have checked the exhaust and when you rev the engine it puffs out black sooty smoke. There appears to be no oil around the exhaust. Any ideas what to do next
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Mon 12 Dec 2011 15:27
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - unthrottled

The entire engine is sonorous so trying to locate the source of a noise by listening is very difficult. The induction system can transmit a lot of engine noises.

Don't restrict the air inlet pipe while the engine is running. The partial vacuum will draw oil past the turbo oil seal.

Diesel 'knock' sounds like a mechanical knocking but is combustion related. not mechanical.

With the engine warm what happens when you let the engine go into overrun whilst in gear?

The injectors (should) switch off in this condition so if the knocking noise doesn't go away it is probably not faulty injectors...

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Mon 12 Dec 2011 16:05
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
Tried what you said and the knocking although slightly less is still on the overrun. One thing I noticed is that it feels as if there is some blow back on the air filter. I also have to say that it feels like it is missing at the moment.
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Mon 12 Dec 2011 17:16
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - unthrottled

What have the mechanics actually checked?

A broken harmonic balancer (crank pulley) can make horrible knocking noises, but is quite an easy fix-if not left too late. Has the timing belt been checked to make sure it is correctly timed?

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Mon 12 Dec 2011 18:57
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
I'm going to ring the renault garage tomorrow to get them to list exactly what they checked.
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Tue 13 Dec 2011 14:59
Renault Grand Espace 2002 2.2dci - Engine fault - qhpgaffer
Spoke to a very helpful Renault technician today. He spent the best part of 9hours inspecting the car and stripping bits off it. The computer check revealed no faults, there are no rubber flap valves in the manifold like some. The egr valve is in working condition. The big ends are fine and there is no play in the crank. I think there are some thrust washers? Bearings?in the bottom end. He said there is some sort of butter fly style valve in the head that can sometimes jam but you need to take the injectors off and the rocker cover off to get near it. He said that the next step in his investigation was to remove the head to carry out the investigation further. By the way he also said the timing was ok. He also said that the fault did not sound anything like it being the harmonic Crank Balancer

Sounds to me that I'm going have to remove the injectors and start the process of removing the head
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