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I think its a hateful car personally but some people love them. It divides opinion alot due to its status as celebrities eco-friendly gimmick, all the celebs have one particularly in America and its more the image of the car is why i think everybody has an opinion on it. The way the car is made as well, with components from about 7 different countries doing alot of miles with some mining involved puts a massive dent in its eco credentials in my opinion and thats why i hate the thing. Not because of the car itself, if Toyota didnt bill it as 'the greenest car ever made' i probably wouldnt have a problem with it, because it clearly isnt.
As for the car itself, its got two engines, neither of them particularly good. The hybrid technology is a gimmick as anything above pedestrian speed its using a proper engine anyway, there are some normal diesels which will give better fuel economy in the real world than the Prius and for less money too, its a bit too expensive for what it is.
But im not here to tell people what to buy if she likes it then thats great.
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Calm down dear - it's only a car, and a car can't be 'hateful'. Have you actually driven one?
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I was a passenger in the back of a Prius as a taxi once, is the only time ive been in one. But you dont need to fall down the stairs to know its not pleasant do you?
I can look at the car on paper and say its not much good, there are better cars which will give better economy (i didnt tell the taxi driver that, thought he might get annoyed) for less money. It felt a bit cheap inside, like all the money went into the hybrid tech and they forgot the rest of the car. Like i said its not a bad car in itself its just the 'super green' marketing which is inaccurate to say the least is what annoys me about it.
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I can look at the car on paper and say its not much good, there are better cars which will give better economy
Ok, name a few automatic cars a similar size to the Prius, that will give better fuel economy.
Edited by carl_a on 25/08/2011 at 05:09
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I had a good long test drive in one (2004 - mk 2) & only held off buying because I didn't like the wooden ride. I liked the car as a car - the 'green' credentials and/or mooted economy weren't the primary buying reasons.
It was an auto (I like CVT), had cruise control, had enough room, nice stereo, was electric-only drive part of the time (which was fun) , handled competently, had a very good dealer, was very low BIK (with govt. 'cashback' offer at the time & high capital write-down value) & good/easy entry/egress - useful with my usual 'payload'.
I even liked the rather futuristic looks (for the time) - if it had come with sensible high profile tyres/whells, I'd have had one!
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Well you buy an automatic you expect worse consumption dont you. If the Prius is the price you have to pay to get good economy in an automatic then that proves my point.
But in general Toyota claim it'll do 65-70mpg or whatever but a large chunk of owner reviews ive read claim they dont get near that, still thoroughly decent maybe 45-50ish but not near the claimed figures. I think the old 1.5 especially is probably so heavy and underpowered to drive it at a normal speed is less economical than some other, more powerful cars. All cars have an optimum speed for the best fuel economy it can give, the Prius' is around pensioner speed which is the problem.
My old 406 HDi automatic would do 50+ on a run, and i verified that myself it wasnt a computers estimate.
My point is, like my comments in the Kia Rio thread is that there is more to a car than pure fuel economy. Yes you can say 'no other auto will beat the Prius on economy' well perhaps, but alot of cars can better the Prius in almost every other respect. unthrottled has spoken a few times about his dislike for cars which do one thing really well but everything else really poorly and in my view the Prius is one which does 1, maybe 2 things reasonably well, nothing brilliantly, and everything else terribly. Who looks at a car and goes purely for the co2 figures and claimed mpg? If all you want is super low cost motoring then a £700 diesel, run it until it breaks is the best form of that. If you go to buy a new Prius you've clearly got a few quid, and paying 18 odd grand or whatever it is you could 10 times better car on the used market for half that!
People just get so blinded by economy.
if it had come with sensible high profile tyres/whells, I'd have had one!
Yes! That! I forgot that! They fit it with these daft skinny eco-friendly tyres which would concern me handling wise in very wet conditions to be honest.
Edited by jamie745 on 25/08/2011 at 14:34
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How are other cars made Jamie? I think 7 countries is pretty low! As for the mining, all SS contains nickel (which I think you're thinking of) and all steels are alloys. From the very basic alloy of iron and carbon in carbon steel. The American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) defines carbon steel as: "Steel is considered to be carbon steel when no minimum content is specified or required for chromium, cobalt, molybdenum, nickel, niobium, titanium, tungsten, vanadium or zirconium, or any other element to be added to obtain a desired alloying effect; when the specified minimum for copper does not exceed 0.40 percent; or when the maximum content specified for any of the following elements does not exceed the percentages noted: manganese 1.65, silicon 0.60, copper 0.60." [1]
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How are other cars made Jamie? I think 7 countries is pretty low! As for the mining, all SS contains nickel (which I think you're thinking of) and all steels are alloys.
Absolutely, 100% agree. You're completely right. But the rest of the manufacturers who do that dont claim their car to be the 'greenest car ever made' and Toyota do. Thats the difference. Most of them do clock up heavily miles in manufacturing you're right but they arent released with these greenwashing on top of it like the Prius is. I have no problem with that method of making cars, but i do have a problem with Toyota's pretending putting some batteries in the car makes up for it, if you buy into that eco stuff.
At the end of the day, most cars are made like that, most are therefore the same, but Toyota's is this god of environmentalism and the rest are baby killers? Thats what i object to. Cars made more locally with ethically sourced eco-friendly materials etc have far greater green credentials than that even if they dont do as much to the gallon.
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The "halo" surrounding the Prius might also make me a little uncomfortable to drive one! I'd quite like to try the Prius to see how it fared in town and rural traffic, as a reasonably economical petrol auto, but rather expensive. On its merits. I certainly wouldn't buy a current diesel, whatever the claimed mileage, because of the unreliability of the DPF at present.
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I thought this thread was about headlights!
I'm quite happily getting 60-65 mpg urban/extra urban. It's like driving a physics experiment, and unlike a diesel, doesn't leave a trail of soot (old worn out ones) or smell like bleach (newer ones).
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I think the fact the Prius is the symbol of a political statement is what would put me off buying one. If they made the same car but called it the Lexus something or other and left out all the green blurb i'd probably like it.
I'll say one thing for it, the new one does look alot better, especially inside. They've remembered the interior on the new one and it looks less Prius-ey if that makes sense. Like you wouldnt feel a total burke driving it.
But what alot of people dont realise about its economy is that its only economical if you drive it economically. If you drive it like your trousers are on fire then its no better than anything else.
Edited by jamie745 on 25/08/2011 at 23:53
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I think the fact the Prius is the symbol of a political statement is what would put me off buying one. If they made the same car but called it the Lexus something or other and left out all the green blurb i'd probably like it.
A Toyota Auris Hybrid for Jamie then.
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I think i'll stick with the Jag for the time being if its alright with you :) With my Band M tax disc telling everybody that i murder polar bears and change sea levels. Apparently.
You know secretely i have no problem with the Prius, its perfectly decent at what it does and is excellent economy for an Automatic and it means you dont have to buy a diesel, which is good. Theres no other petrol car which can offer that sort of economy for a car that big, supermini's yes but nothing the size of the Prius. I talk up big loud cars alot on here but i do quite like the idea of toodling around town with the car making completely no noise at all (the Jag is probably as close to that as you'll get with an engine running) and using practically no petrol for low speed short town trips. I'd like to drive it through London causing alot of congestion but not having to pay for it, thats good too. And as noted earlier even with the complex hybrid setup the Prius is returning an almost annoyingly good reliability record.
I dont hate the car, far from it, i just hate the green blurb which goes with it.
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The blurb is offputting, I agree. In an ideal world, if I had the cash, a Jaguar would be on the list, ahead of BMWs etc. Petrol and 6 pot. Hang the expense! BTW, Octane issue 99 has an interesting feature on Jag E-Type and its 50-year history.
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I think Toyota boobed with the eco blurb-it compartmentalised the Prius and polarised opinion. I mean what gives with the LCD screen on the centre console showing a useless schematic of hybrid operation?!
Can you imagine if VW had done the same withe the TDI-showing an animation of direct injection combustion?
VW tried to make the diesel option as identical to the petrol as possible which made its acceptance easier. Good move.
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Just in a nod to the OP's original post - ditch that garage, go to another - they've no interest, it seems, in maintaining your car cost effectively, or the customer relationship sincerely.
Unthrottled makes an interesting point - the intense marketing of the Prius as an 'eco car' probably appealed to the marketing types with their Macs & too-long toe hair sitting in an office in Islington high Road (sorry if anyone's been sick..) & Holywood stars wanting to flaunt their [....] (fill in as appropriate) , but for the average Joe it was a bit too 'look at me' & possibly subversive.
People often want the kudos of buying a brand or blingy spec, but the marketing vibe (imho) for the Prius often came across as rather limp wristed, and would possibly require assertions from the owner about their reproductive prowess after the first paragraph in any car related conversation. Hybrid - not a very good word. For me it implies a neither- one-thing-nor-the-other image, maybe even an impure liaison. Far fetched sounding maybe, but marketing angst over the minutiae of 'meaning' - and in this case I think they got it wrong.
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Whilst we are on the theme of nauseating marketing, let us consider Ford's 'Ecoboost' Engine. Is it supercharged with fairtrade smoothies? Does it fuelled by composted leaves from the Brazilian rainforest?
No, it's a conventional gasoline engine. Turbocharging and direct injection are hardly avant garde these days.
What is exciting is that Ford appear to have ironed out some of the downsides of direct injection. That is something to be shout about. Sadly we can't see see this because we're too busy wretching at the silly moniker.
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It seems most people here actually agree with what im trying to say about the Prius (shockingly) that the car is perfectly fine, its the blurb and largely substance-free marketing of these 'eco cars' which is offputting. It seems manufacturers are so desperate for the 'green ticket' that they do like what unthrottled highlighted about Ford and stamp the name 'eco' on it to keep the Guardian happy. Personally i think Toyota wouldve sold even more Prius' (its a huge seller already i realise) if they dropped the green blurb from the beginning and just let the car do the talking itself and let people develop their own opinion. All the green marketing has done is polarise opinion and now when you go to buy one you get that uneasy feeling that you're making a political statement rather than buying a car.
I think most UK buyers who buy the Prius do so because its the only big five door automatic you can buy which doesnt cost the earth in fuel which isnt a tractor-like diesel. Its got a good reliability record, those batteries well documented to do over 200k without issue or degredation. Most economical cars are quite small, the Prius isnt, can fit four people and a bucket load of stuff in it. The technology is very good, i like the hybrid system it has, i like the idea of my short trips not using any petrol at all and just humming along. The low tax, low insurance groups and rock bottom company car tax combined with congestion charge exemption make them extremely formidable in terms of plain maths. I believe most UK buyers dont buy it because they're particularly 'green' but because it makes sound fiscal sense for them to own it, when i see one i dont know why they bought it, i dont know they're just a guardian reading greenie toff, they probably bought it due to the reasons listed here and thats fine.
It may interest you to know ive recently had it confirmed that our works fleet cars, the 1.9 Astra diesels are to be replaced next month and at least one of them will be a 3 year old Prius. When it arrives i'll make an excuse to need it and i'll put my prejudices to one side and i will drive it and give you all my verdict on what its like as a car. If anyones interested.
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Jamie, will you stop being so unchildish.
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Is my new found balance and reasonableness unsettling you? Do you prefer the old Jamie?
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"If they made the same car but called it the Lexus something or other"
I though you knew about cars?
Google Lexus CT200h - I've seen quite a few, but reviews aren't very good.
Edited by daveyjp on 26/08/2011 at 22:08
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Oh yes the CT200h, the one Kylie Minogue was advertising. Yes sorry i forgot about that, most of what the Japanese do passes me by. Ive seen poor reviews of that as well with most reviewers commenting that ALL its got going for it is its low emissions and decent economy and its a very poor car for an awful lot of money in virtually every other respect. Parkers werent impressed with the model they tested at all.
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Whatever you say is going to be wrong, Jamie!
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There doesn't seem to be much point in having a Lexus CT200h when you can get a mechanically similar Prius for £5,000 less. Those of us who drive Skodas will see the logic of that view.
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Whats made you conclude that unthrottled? You never know. I may file a good report about it!
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Can you imagine if VW had done the same withe the TDI-showing an animation of direct injection combustion?
Would it have a little animation to go with it?
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Maybe suspended animation.
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