Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

Sun 6 Feb 2011 16:18

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - CorsaPita

Hi all.

I have a 1998 Vectra Arctic with a 1.8 (X18XE) engine, and to be honest i'm having real issues getting it running properly.

Ok i think this all started when the car had a bad Cam cover gasket which flooded the plugs with oil causing it to need the assistance of an AA truck but the odd thing was it was VERY hot, i don't mean water temp or oil that seemed fine but the Cat was glowing for 5 mins after it stopped and if you looked into the end of the exhaust you could see the Baffles glowing, Anyway this was fixed with new Plugs,Leads, Coil pack and Cam gasket and it ran fine for just over two weeks.

Now i don't know if this is related but after the two weeks it started to miss slightly under load (ticks over fine and drives ok under 1/2 throttle), this has gradually got worse to the degree the Miss is quite Violent and the back light on the Mileage display flickers at the same timing as the miss? (but only the Mileage back light, the other lights are fine inc Headlights and the clocks other lights), Some thing i did notice is that even though you can feel the miss slightly under load when its cold its MUCH worse when its hot and all this is happening with no Engine management light on?

So... I started off by checking the engine grounds,ECU ground and basically any i could find (they where cleaned and checked) next i was told that the alt overcharging can do odd things so i tested that (14.4v at 3000 rpm which i believe is ok), i thought that maybe the oil fault had returned so i pulled all the plugs (they where fine) i tested the Leads and Coil (also within spec), Checked the Compression (all even and within spec).

Now i am left thinking it could be a Sensor?. But even when its really playing up there is no Engine light or fault codes? So i'm now thinking maybe a bad Maf sensor (or its ground) or maybe some thing like the inlet gasket has failed?

Any ideas would be appreciated at this point..

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 16:55

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

'i tested the Leads and Coil'
How did you test the coil? Taking resistance readings with a multimeter is a waste of time-it is prone to false negatives. The problem with coils does not usually lie with the coil itself, but in the insulation causing a voltage breakdown-so the electrical charge is dissipated (arcing) instead of going to the plug. With little or no spark, total misfire is inevitable

The symptoms usually manifest themselves most acutely under load (especially at low RPM) and when the engine is hot. When a cylinder misfires, the entire charge of fuel and oxygen is dumped into the exhaust where it burns in the cataytic converter. This is what is causing the cat to glow red.

Your fix is almost certainly a new Coil pack. Sadly, you'll probably need a new cat too.

Edited by unthrottled on 06/02/2011 at 16:56

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 17:06

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - CorsaPita

The problem is the Coil pack is just over 3 weeks old and was new came from Partco.

I did test it with a Multimeter and seemed ok, but then the old one i took off seemed ok too? (i supose that says it all really)

So is there anyway to test? or just replace the coil (again)?

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 17:23

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

Damn. The symptoms are spot on.

I had a similar problem (that's how I know!). I was given a coil pack that was KNOWN to be bad (friendly garage!). The multimeter readings were identical to a coil pack that was suspected to be faulty but actually turned out to be fine (the problem lay elsewhere).

The only way to test the coil is under an electrical load. The multimeter only applies a tiny test voltage that isn't helpful for diagnosing insulator breakdown.

It's not impossible that the new part is faulty, but the odds are heavily against it. I fully understand that you don't want to buy a new coil pack on the off-chance. Back to the drawing board.

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 17:31

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

Looking again at your post, it seems that the coil was working fine for 2 weeks (assuming this is what is wrong). I wonder if the coil is becoming overloaded somehow, causing it to break down very quickly. I know it's really obvious, but have you checked the spark plug gaps? A large gap requires a big voltage-which puts extra strain on the coil insulation.

Most modern cars run very large spark plug gaps to help with idle/low load combustion stability and emissions. I run my spark plugs with a smaller than recommended gap to keep the strain off the coil pack. There is a slight loss of idle stability, but during normal driving I shift early, so there is no need for a big gap. A small gap will erode the spark plug electrode slightly faster because the current is bigger. But plugs are cheaper than coils-and I've got 15 years on the original coil packs and still going...

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 17:38

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - CorsaPita

TBH i don't know what the gaps are like on the plugs, they are genuine Vauxhall ones and i didn't think to check. Will have a look tomorow.

I have been doing a bit of reading and it would seem the coil is one of those parts that should be bought from Vauxhall (Not sure why) so if the Plugs dont fix it i'll go and price a genuine VX coil up.

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Sun 6 Feb 2011 18:03

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

Bet it'll be a lot dearer. Running an old car only makes sense if you can get cheap parts. I've heard that Peugeot should only use Peugeot made catalytic converters-why? The operation of a conventional cat isn't specific to any manufacturer. Do you have the gap specifications? If not, i'd set it them to 0.8-0.9mm , and see if it makes a difference under load.
nb-multi electrode plugs are essentialy non adjustable.

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 12:43

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - CorsaPita

I have just checked the plugs, they did look a bit big gaps but its not made allot of diffrence to its running.

I have also just been up to my local Vauxhall dealer who have also said it going to be an ignition fault (Ether ECU,Loom,Coil,Leads or Plugs the guy said) at least that narows it down a bit, anyway i have ordered a new cat (because the i noticed there is a blow coming from the flex now too), Coil and some more plugs. When the bits come i'll put them on and see what happens.

I'll let you know..

Thanks for the help.

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Mon 7 Feb 2011 12:51

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

Thanks! It's always nice to know the final outcome. Good luck!

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Tue 8 Feb 2011 20:10

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - CorsaPita

Had a bit of an odd thing happen today, because the Vectra was low on petrol i drove it to my local Tesco's petrol station and put £10 in it, on the way there it was running very bad (on three and couldn't get it too idle etc), the odd thing is i turned it off at the pumps and when i started it to drive home it ran quite well. Really odd.

Ahh i just have this feeling its got some thing else going on, i just hope its some thing like the cat Collapsing.

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Tue 8 Feb 2011 21:03

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

I had a cat collapse once. It didn't affect the idle at all, but the car couldn't pull at all.

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Wed 16 Feb 2011 20:08

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - CorsaPita

Bit of an update. Got a call monday from vauxhall to say my bits where there but unfortunatly i am away with work for two weeks so i asked them too fit the parts for me etc, anyway to cut a long story short the parts are now on and it was breafly better but when the Mechanic took it out for a second test drive the clocks stopped working and the battery light started flickering on and off (he also said the misfire was still there but reduced). SO... They are now saying it wants a possibly Clocks, New altenator, new Engine loom and a ECU check . So i am not sure if i should just call it a day before i get too far in or get some second hand bits?

O well :-(

Edited by CorsaPita on 16/02/2011 at 20:12

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Thu 17 Feb 2011 10:27

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - TeeCee

"...possibly Clocks, New altenator, new Engine loom and a ECU check ."

Translation:

"We're terribly sorry sir, but we haven't the slightest clue what's wrong with your car. We're quite happy to spend your money on replacing bits at random in the hope we get lucky though....."

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Sat 9 Jul 2011 14:22

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - Tony1975

Im having the same problem with my 1.8 SXI (2000) the revs started bouncing at idle coming to a standstill and sometimes cutting out, now it wont start atall unless you put a little pressure on the accelerator, when it does fire it will not stay running without the accelerator pedal on a little, when reving the car it sounds a little spluttery but when holding the car at a rev range it judders quite bad and smells of egg and petrol, under driving there is hardly any power, i have taken it it to the local garage and they cant seem to put thier finger on the problem, there is no ECM light on either and no faults have come from the diagnostic test.

They replaced the plugs and said its a little better but still no good for driving, still at the garage now and still not resolved. Recently had a new MAF and carried out the yellow wire trick about 6 months ago which solved an old problem of cutting out with faults on the MAF and temperature sensor.

I have heard this could be the coil that needs replaced, anyone got any other ideas what thos could be?

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Sat 9 Jul 2011 14:25

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

it judders quite bad and smells of egg and petrol,

The catalytic converter has failed and the matrix has collapsed.

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Sat 9 Jul 2011 14:29

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - Tony1975

Is this costly? wouldnt the garage have picked this fault up?

I must say i have noticed before this happened it sounded like the exhast was blowing a bit and before i took it to garage the exhaust was smoking a bit of black. Im not very good with cars could you explain about the matrix?

Think i should add, this didnt start to be this bad unitl i changed the front N/S wheel and it was a complete nightmare to get the wheel off, we had to pretty much hammer it off :(

Edited by Tony1975 on 09/07/2011 at 14:37

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Sat 9 Jul 2011 15:22

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

The matrix is just the honeycomb structure inside the cat. It sounds like it has melted and this is blocking the exhaust. They cost about £120 for a new one. Cats have to be welded onto the exhaust system and the welding often leads to fairly rapid failing at the joins-so don't be surprised if the exhaust starts blowing 6 months down the line.

The garage needs to ascertain why the cat failed. It's commonly (and wrongly) attributed to running 'rich'. Most petrol engines run rich under full acceleration in order to protect the cat. It is the presence of petrol and air in the exhaust that causes the cat to overheat.

Changing the n/s wheel (or the offside for that matter!) has no bearing on this problem!

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Fri 12 Aug 2011 18:20

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - Tony1975

garage solved the problem with a new throttle body, new plugs and new MAF they tested the coil and that was ok, ticks over fine now, however once the engine warms up after about 10 mins I have a misfire (like a drop in power like a jerk) between 1000 and 2000 rpm when trying to accelerate from 2nd upwards.

Any ideas what this could be? garage cost me £450 so dont want to spend loads again just to find out whats wrong.

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Fri 12 Aug 2011 20:01

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - unthrottled

duplicate post-sorry

Edited by unthrottled on 12/08/2011 at 20:02

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Wed 7 Sep 2011 20:06

Vauxhal Vectra B - X18XE Missfire (no EML) - Tony1975

have heard the small missfire could be from the EGR valve sticking or the coilpack, still no EML when it jerks - any ideas before i buy both?

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