Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 12:31
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - carled

Hi all. Currently have a 58-reg 2.2 Tdci S-Max. I can't afford the finance (or fuel, to be honest) on it any more due to job circumstances so I'm selling it, paying off the finances and getting something cheaper to run for a while.

I work from home so do very few miles at present. If that changes I'll worry about changing the car again then. However I do quite a few small journies of 5 to 20 miles several times a week (with most of the family in the car) and maybe once a month a longer ones of > 100. Also 3 or 4 trips to Devon for family visits/holidays each year with roofbox and surfboard on top. Overall mileage probably well less than 10k per annum, with 70% of that being short-ish journies.

Whole family is very tall. I'm 6'5", daughters are both 6'-ish and have long legs. We use most of the S-Max boot space when doing trips here & there so need to have a good amount of room.

When I bought the S-Max last year I did the test of "sitting behind myself" by setting the driving seat to a comfortable position and then getting into the passenger seat behind. In doing so (these were for new vehicles, mind you, so older ones may have different dimensions) I found that the Nissan Qashcai+2 was tiny and I could barely get my knees in, the Insignia was plenty big, the Passat was very small - similar to Qashcai) although the Touran had good room, the Zafira also had good room and I think the Mondeo did as well.

I need something where new tyres don't cost the earth like the daft S-max 245/45/18s, the cost to fix things/spares aren't extortionate if/when something goes wrong, doesn't need startling performance as fuel economy is more important than performance at present and is pretty reliable generally.

Creature comforts: Air con and cruise control are pretty much essential. I know, I know... it's just those small luxuries that I'd really struggle to do without.

Budget - dunno... £5k-ish?

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 13:50
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Collos25

Big and Economic do not really go together, none of the cars you mention are not going to be much if any cheaper to run than the car you have already,you do not have to have those wheels and tyres on your car .Do not forget to allow for the replacement of DMF and clutch,pumps,injectors etc all of which can prove very expensive on older diesels its risk whatever car you buy.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 13:57
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - carled

I'd beg to differ! At £323 per month in finance, £85 to fill up, for which I get c. 500 miles (low thirties in mpg) I think there's a lot out there (possibly will struggle a bit on the rear legroom) using the 130ps 1.9Tdi VAG engine for example.

However, I was hoping to get some insights from people that may perhaps recommend petrol over diesel at the mileage I do?

I may try and track down a Superb to look over as I'm told that I may get away with it even though it's not an estate. Will see.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 14:37
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Collos25

Do you think that the vehicles you mention are going to do massively more MPG in the real world.I run a petrol but do very little mileage even if I did I would still prefer petrol because of all the expensive parts that seem to go wrong on older diesels.Do not forget fuel costs are not the be all and end all of running a car.But good luck looking and I hope you find the car thats suits you.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 16:31
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - madf

Big and economical are contradictions.

One unexpected bihg bill will add to cost. At your price bracket, odds on.

Fuel prices are not going down nor is VED nor insurance on big cars..

"Creature comforts: Air con and cruise control are pretty much essential. "

Please try to be realistic. There is NO magic solution. You aredreaming.

Edited by madf on 04/01/2011 at 16:32

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 17:09
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Trilogy

I'll throw an Audi A6 into the mix. PD or pre PD engine. My Octavia pre PD engine has done 195,000 miles, no problems with the engine and c.55 mpg. I'm sure this car will be too small but an Audi A6 or Skoda Superb, the latter if you can manage without an estate might suit you.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 17:38
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - davros

Irrespective of the economic arguments, an old-shape Citroen C5 would seem to meet your requirement. Plenty around for £5/6 K with reasonable mileage and you'll get far more for your money than an equivalent Audi.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 18:01
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - carled

Thanks Davros. I had a Picasso before the S-Max and that served me well, so I'll check the C5 out.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 17:59
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - carled

I'm sorry but big and economical are not contradictions! An S-Max 2.5 turbo petrol is big, it is not economical. There are any number of 1.9 Tdi-engined estates/hatches out there (now I've read a few threads) that ARE capable of 50+ mpg and THAT is economical. I am finding out more and more as I read and I need to go and look at a superb and see if I can use it for what I need.

I'm not getting a big car because I want to dominate other road users, it is a necessity due to the size of me & my family. I simply cannot fit us all in to a Honda Jazz for any long trip, no matter how roomy it is for a supermini.

As to me "dreaming" about air con and cruise control... they're almost standard on many cars of any spec past about 2000 so why am I dreaming? I've just looked at random and found a £3k passat 1.9 130ps highline on sale with every whistle and bell going. It's not necessarily the car for me, but it will do in excess of 50mpg and is pretty large.

Edited by Avant on 04/01/2011 at 23:40

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 18:29
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - madf

You ask a question. I give an answer. Simple agenda really. An opinion.

Edited by Avant on 04/01/2011 at 23:44

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 18:37
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Collos25

50mpg VW do not give so much in there test figures,when you consider the difference in cost of fuel the increased maintainance costs and all the expensive equipment that can go wrong your as well keeping by our own car. And there is no need to be rude and arogant to anybody even if you do not agree with their opinion,you appear to know what you want so anybody who differs from your opinion is wrong.

Edited by Andy Bairsto on 04/01/2011 at 18:41

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 18:55
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Collos25

Just look on autotrader if you want the official mpg these being way above reality.You asked for advice the fact you do not agree with is hardly our problem.Running a car is not just about MPG and this has been pointed out to you but you fail to accept this point.Any older high mileage diesel which is all you will buy for your budget could become a money pit but you seem to know best.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 22:30
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Lygonos

What you should consider is the realm of bangernomics.

Lexus LS400 - plenty out there for well under £2000 that are in good running order - enough room, enough toys, potentially very reliable and if they go t*ts up can be flogged on eBay for most of your pennies back and find another bucket to run for a year or two.

25mpg if driven gently, reduced rate VED as pre-2006. Insurance quite high but not if you're an old f*rt with clean licence.

If you can find a mega-miles FSH vehicle (say 160,000 miles+) you'll find some gems amongst the 15 owner sheds.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 23:06
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Rumfitt

Have you considered a Volvo V70 D5? I have a 2002 model and it's a great combination of comfort, capacity and economy.

Plenty of creature comforts for long journeys and 55mpg certainly achievable. Pretty good load capacity and within budget.

I recommend a visit to the Volvo Forums if you require more info...

Edited by Rumfitt on 04/01/2011 at 23:09

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Wed 5 Jan 2011 09:17
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - carled

Thanks Trilogy. I think the sensible thing for me to do is go to a car supermarket to try some for size (dealers are probably no good as they won't have approved used in the age that I'll be looking at and I can't be sure that the dimensions haven't changed).

Bangernomics don't appeal as the school run requires 25 minutes each way cross-country on minor roads and breaking down way out there with my daughters would be one thing, but as we lift share with friends and their 6 year old boy, that really wouldn't be good... I know *any* car can break down but I want to stack the odds in my favour by keeping the car as new as possible for my budget I think.

Interesting to hear some suggest the V70 as spacious and others say it is small in the back! I'm intrigued to try it out. Is there a big variation in model years perhaps?

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Thu 6 Jan 2011 21:33
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - danidge

Bangernomics don't appeal I run two old Nissan Primeras. Huge boot, room for teenagers in the back, and I am well over 6 feet tall but fit behind the wheel (a lot better on the one than the other- do not know why this is) Build quality and reliability are good but zero street cred and no cruise control (was fitted to some I believe) Cheap as chips to buy and run but definitely deemed banger territory. Both are petrol engines. On a 250 mile steady mostly motorway run on Tuesday I was getting 50-52mpg.

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Tue 4 Jan 2011 23:47
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Avant

This is a perfectly reasonable subject for debate but not one that calls for disagreement to become personal. I have edited out some of the comments which were over the top.

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Wed 5 Jan 2011 20:46
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Dutchie
Alot of editing Avant reading the orginial answers I didn't think Andys and madf where that offencive the other chap used the words arrogant etc.Just my opinion.
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Wed 5 Jan 2011 23:16
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Nomag

Some good points raised here. The old chesnut of changing a car to save money, only to find yourself with a big bill a little way down the line. TBH, you could easily buy a £5k car and it cause you unexpected bills, so perhaps it would be better to spend as little as possible then if the bills come, you can dispose of it and replace or actually afford to repair.

FWIW, I have a year old S-max 2.2 - like you I am 6'4" and it is the first car I have enjoyed driving and can actually sit behind myself in comfort in . I have tried a Superb and don't think you'll be disappointed with the space, but I do think you'll find the boot space difficult to make full use of compared with the S-max as it's a saloon.

Is the S-max costing you anything in repairs? Could you afford the finance, flog the 18" alloys on Ebay (they are highly desirable) and buy a second hand 17 or even 16" set from a Zetec for much cheaper tyres? Yes you could get more mpg with a Superb but if your mileage is not that high will it make so much difference to running costs overall?

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Thu 6 Jan 2011 12:34
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - TheOilBurner
Fuel economy could improve by 5-10% with smaller wheels too.
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Thu 6 Jan 2011 13:43
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Robert J.

Carled mentioned the V70 further up the thread and questioned the room in the back. I don’t think it is too bad really, it’s just that it seems a bit small when you consider the overall size of the car. Load space is good however. Bear in mind the very wide turning circle of these cars if you have tight spaces to negotiate. The other thing to consider, on the age and mileage you are looking at, the injectors can give trouble. They are about £240 each (plus fitting) and there are 5 of them. Any saving in economy can soon be wiped out if they need replacing.

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Thu 6 Jan 2011 23:13
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - Avant

I rather agree with Nomag on this one. You need to do the sums carefully and see how much you are actually going to save (and factor in the change of wheels which seems like a good idea). The S-Max is two years old - how much if any equity have you got in it?

A £5,000 car could easily go wrong and negate your careful budgeting. If you're sure that this is the way to go, go for a petrol (diesels of that sort of age are vulnerable to major failures) and probably something Japanese. Have you tried tio see if you can all fit in an MPV such as a Verso? Or if you liked your Picasso you could go back to another.

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Fri 7 Jan 2011 09:18
Recommendations for BIG but economical estate pls. - veryoldbear

IMHO £5K is a reasonable price to pay for a car. There are plenty of buggies out there at that sort of price that will still give several years of sterling service, and any modest repair bills are more than offset by the minimal depreciation, and the reduced capital outlay that could have been usefully spent on christmas presents and hot lunches. We do not all run company cars.

My Saab 95 2.2TID Estate was £4K two years ago, and although somewhat agricultural to the ears on startup is a faithful servant, comfortable, spacious and gives 38 mpg on the back lanes and up to 42 mpg on the motorway provided not pressed to illegal velocities

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