Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - gfewster

Ok here's an interesting one.

I recently spent a couple of months working as a motorcycle courier, riding a bike hired to me by the courier company.

Today I received a Notice to Owner from City of Westminster Parking Services. It relates to a contravention on 21 Oct 2010, so presumably it has found its way to me via details provided by the courier company.

I remember the incident in question.

Coming out from a building to which I'd just delivered, there was an attendant next to 'my' bike writing a ticket. Between him and the bike was another motorcycle courier, who was remonstrating with him. He finished writing the ticket and took out his camera, at which point this other courier (not anyone I knew, but presumably trying do a fellow courier a favour) stood up close to the back of the bike, preventing the attendant from getting a photograph that showed the numberplate. This chap then suggested I ride away quickly, which I did. I wasn't handed the ticket, nor was it affixed to the bike. I'm confident there is no photographic evidence.

Questions:

1. How does it work with them serving me with a Notice to Owner? I might have been the rider, but I'm not the owner.

2. Is there some sort of time-out? It has arrived over six weeks after the date of contravention.

3. Should I just 'make representations' (as they call it) stating that the contravention did not occur and challenging them to provide proof? This what I favour at the moment.

All advice appreciated.

Edited by gfewster on 16/12/2010 at 11:27

Top Reply

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - gfewster

Just to give the final outcome on this, the PATAS adjudicator found in my favour and directed City of Westminster to cancel the PCN. Letter arrived in the post today.

The reason was that they weren't satisfied that the ticket was properly issued, despite CoW's submission to PATAS saying that it was.

Seems they don't always take the Enforcement Authority's word for it, which is a nice precedent to have and somewhat restores my faith in the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

All Replies

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - Cris_on_the_gas

As you have a ticket I assume for parking and delivering is counted as loading or unloading. Unless there was a ban on loading in force at this location then the ticket should not stand anyway.

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - gfewster

No sorry, the Notice to Owner says:

"Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force"

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - Dwight Van Driver

If the details on the PCN are correct then this will be from notes made by the CEO at the time. Normally they back up the correctness of their notes and that an offence has been committed by taking a photograph although there is no requirement at law for them to do so.

If the CEO could not hand over the ticket or place it on the vehicle (offender rode off) then it is permissable to send it by post. 28 days are allowed to do this or up to 6 months if DVLA have been found wanting.

It would appear that they have made enquiry of DVLA and obtained Reg keeper as that of the lease company . The Lease company have not paid it and exercised their get out clause by naming you and the LA have sent it on to you as Notice to Owner.

You now have the option of either paying for the transgression which appears to be admitted or taking it further by a representation by letter to the LA as to why no offence took place.

If they accept NFA. If not a further communication from LA rejecting your submission and an invitation to pay or take it further to the Parking Adjudicator. As to how will be explained in the rejection notice.

dvd

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - gfewster

NFA?

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - gfewster

Without a photograph, how can it be proven that an offence took place?

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - LucyBC

His notes are fine. There is no requirement for a photograph and driving off doesnt get you off nor the time since it happened.

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - gfewster

So if it came down to it, a court would accept a parking attendant's word as 'proof'?

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - Vitesse6

Why shouldn't they - you have admitted that you were parked there, so the attendant is telling the truth.

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - LucyBC

They aren't dealt with by the court - they go to tribunal - but the answer is very likely yes if there is a written or electronic record. There is no legal requirement for a photograph.

In your case they could almost certainly get the courtier company to pay it in any event with a notice to owner, then they would have to pursue you. I would be very surprised if the courier company had a hirer waiver if this was an informal arrangement.

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - Dwight Van Driver

If it was within the hiring agreement a clause stating that hirer would be responsible for parking tickets etc then Hiring Authority, whilst no doubt quoted as Keeper at DVLC can exercise the get out clause within

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England)

Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007

?and put payment squarely on the shoulders of the hirer.

?

?dvd

Parking ticket - no photo proof or ticket served - gfewster

Just to give the final outcome on this, the PATAS adjudicator found in my favour and directed City of Westminster to cancel the PCN. Letter arrived in the post today.

The reason was that they weren't satisfied that the ticket was properly issued, despite CoW's submission to PATAS saying that it was.

Seems they don't always take the Enforcement Authority's word for it, which is a nice precedent to have and somewhat restores my faith in the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.