OK - I'm sure I've read that as part of Mark's advice, too - so can only assume I did something wrong when I posted before. Will try harder next time.
Thanks!
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So tell us, HF, what happened then...?
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Ok Dave, but in the cold light of day it doesn't seem nearly as dramatic as it did to me last night when I was wound up and needing to let off steam.
Driving home after picking up youngest from his Beaver Scout group, traffic was appalling, worse than I've ever seen it for some reason. Long long queues along the main road, tailing back for miles.
Anyway, finally came close to the set of lights near my home. A few car-lenghts before the lights, there is a small one-way street to the left past some shops which I use as a short-cut to home. I reached this road, there was almost but not quite enough room to turn into it due to the car in front. I became aware of a car appearing in the RH lane (I'd been in the LH all the way down the road) indicating left. Obviously a lane-hopper, nonetheless I thought I'd hold back once the lights went green to let him in. Suddenly though there was much leaning on horn, persistently, and I turned round to see this bloke gesticulating wildly (and obscenely) to me, and shouting what were obviously obscenities, and also pointing to the road to the left that I was waiting to get into. I decided not to let him in after all, but as the lights changed, and I was about to edge forward, the horn-leaning began again, the bloke swerved around in front of me, tyres screeching, and sped down the small road, swerving into the nearest parking space. I have to confess that I pressed my horn too as this annoyed me. I went slowly along the road (it's covered in speed humps and a 10mph limit anyway) and saw the bloke get out of his car and walk towards mine, menacingly. He wasn't in the middle of the road so I didn't have to stop (or run him over) but he was obviously looking for me to stop so he could have a go at me. I was worried, I just drove on but as I passed him he punched his hand on my bonnet, continuing to yell obscenities, and kicked at the back of the car as I went off. That's it really, but it wasn't very nice either for me or my kids. The big bully bloke had a woman and children in his car too, not a very nice example for them either.
HF
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If you can remember what he looks like and details of the car then report him to the police. If he has left damage on your car then you can add that into the bargain. Alternatively do nothing and wish that the fleas of a 1000 camels infest his underpants or something else suitably unpleasant befalls him!
teabelly
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I feel for you, HF, it amazes me too just how uncontrolled some people can be! There's a dent in my rear quarter panel from a similar ignoramus' hobnail boot, I instinctively go for the central locking if I'm slowing down anywhere near a group of people now, just in case one of them takes exception to my presence...
Unfortunately in my job most people are, erm, chemically impaired, to say the least, which makes them more likely than most to lose it. Can you imagine what I have to put up with later on when your friend there has had 12 pints and wants to go home?? Talking of which, it's time I went to work now.
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Dave I cannot even contemplate how awful it must be for you in your job!
I did the instinctive central locking too, as soon as I realised the situation could be getting nasty. And actually I normally drive around with all doors locked anyway, just in case. (which goes against the rule that says it will be easier to get you out of your vehicle if doors are unlocked (in the event of accident etc) but it just doesn't feel safe to pull up at lights, or anywhere else, and know that someone could just open your passenger door and get in!)
I can only feel for you, Dave, doing the job you do - the chemical impairment thing, well I understand what you mean more than most would, and I know how suddenly and unexpectedly such people can 'lose it'. I CAN imagine what you have to put up with, after the bully has had 12 pints, I can imagine it only too well. For now I will just wish you luck and hope that tonight's work is not too bad for you.
Good luck
HF
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Current "trick" in Dublin is for villans to wait for cars to stop at light. Open the door of the first car they see with a single female and throw a rat (alive or dead) into the car - instinct dictates that the driver exits via the door - addidct hops in and drives off,
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Ugh! I try to remember to keep central locking on at all times - all the same, my car isn't really the sort that too many would want to steal!
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Oh dear.
In my day we at least tried to honk out of the window.
But as to the dreadful person who kicked this off, in my day also he could have come by misfortune. Nowadays nobody would dare chastise him, for fear of the long arm of the law acting backwards.
Only, dear lady!
I've been, mostly, happily married for nearly five decades and the concept of "Helpless Female" is a puzzle to me!
Wishing no more trouble ever again.
Best Regards
Tomo
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Hi Tomo,
thanks for your reply. As you say, nowadays no-one really tries to chastise these people, through the fear of the perpetrator's mates, the police, or the perpetrators themselves.
Many congratulations on being married for nearly 5 decades - that is a truly wonderful thing and I wish you my very best wishes in that!
My name of "helpless female' relates to my abilities with regard to cars, rather than to me generally!
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Just to let you know that the whole of Orpington had ground to a halt that evening due to a gas leak in the High Street whch was closed off. I was walking the boys home in the pouring rain and witnessed more than a little road rage and much stupidity with drivers doing u turns on the A208 to avoid one of the tail backs. I don't know where they thought they were going though 'cos all the roads were blocked !! I think sadly you just came across a guy who simply 'lost it'.
When people get like that there's no reasoning with them so it's best not to try and/or react back. It's really quite sad just how angry people get when they're delayed in their cars. On Sunday I took my youngest on the bus into Brmley and on the way home it stopped and just waited. Minutes went by and nothing was said by anyone, including the driver. Everyone was calm and it was some time before a man approached the driver and was told his shift was over and the replacement driver was late. Did anyone shout, scream or threaten the driver ? No. Everyone was calm and even those few (including us) who chose to get off and walk in the rain weren't too upset. So what is it about the psychology attached to driving that makes everyone so violent ?
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Volvo yes, I know that was the day of the gas leak but by the time of my journey the High Street had reopened again. However, you're probably right that this was still the reason for traffic build-up.
I know there's no reasoning with these people and I guess I was pretty stupid to sound my horn in retaliation - Won't do that again, for sure! At the same time, I wonder what the 20-stone bully-man's reaction would have been had I been a fellow 20-stone hard-looking bloke with a couple of mates in his car. Different, I suspect, to the reaction he gave to me.
This guy was just a bully, pure and simple, his tactics worked in that he frightened me, but I don't like being intimidated and don't want to get to the point where I'm having to give way (against normal driving procedure) to every angry-looking male driver (or female driver with large male companion) that tries t make me scared.
HF
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HF - the disruption had spread so wide that it took some hours for it to settle after the High Street reopened. Local road works also contributed to the problem. If everyone had tried very hard not to block junctions etc. it wouldn't have been half as bad but it rapidly became an 'everyone for themself' scenario and much of the congestion was the result of stupid and/or inconsiderate driving.
re the 'bully' I think his reaction would probably have been the same you know. When people get that uptight they cease to think or act rationally. The red mist comes down and they go for it, usually regretting the consequences. Not much consolation to you but I bet that guy's wife gave him a good seeing to when they got home :-). I also expect he feels a bit of a prat now !
Even the mildest mannered of us can change totally when we get behind the wheel of our car.
A few years ago in Mayfield Avenue I pulled over to the right to park briefly to post a letter. An old boy coming towards me objected by sounding his horn loudly as he passed, even though he was about 50 yards away at the time I did it and there was no danger to him or anyone else. Feeling unfairly insulted, I instinctively reacted by tooting my horn back. Imagine my surprise when he stopped about 50 yards up the road and reversed back at speed in order to further make his point. As he got out of the car and ran towards mine, I could see he was in his 60's at least yet he still wanted to have a go at me ! In doing all of this he had acted far more dangerously and recklessly than anything I had done but he just couldn't control himself. I've no doubt that had I got out we would have wound up having a fight. He would have probably wound up in hospital and I in prison all for nothing ! Unless I can't avoid doing so, I just refuse to get involved now - it's not worth it.
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Hi teabelly,
I can remember what he looks like but unfortunately have no idea of the car he was driving. Coupled with my lack of knowledge about cars, the fear I was feeling at the time did not allow me to think to take car details down.
There seems to be no damage to the car, anyway, despite the abuse - so I haven't a lot to go on! What affected me most was the intimidation and the desire on his part to frighten someone who was obviously a lone female driver with kids in the car.
I think perhaps your idea of placing a curse upon him, for all those fleas in his underpants, is the only thing I can do! Except that someone who will stoop that low is probably used to all the fleas and the discomfort that must go with them! I guess I just hope that at some time, he will feel similarly intimidated about something, and realise what it feels like.
Thanks,
HF
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HF: Sounds like a truly horrible person. Fortunately you got off lightly from the sound of it.
As for informing the plod, don't waste your time, they won't want to know. (I won't bore you with my reasons.)
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Hi Leif, and thanks for your message. I guess you're right, I WAS lucky!
I would be interested in hearing your experiences, to which you refer, if you have a moment.
Thanks
HF
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People like this are sickening, I know how it can be frustrating when someone is taking their time for no reason, but if you don't have room to get your car through the gap then it's hardly your fault. And to act like this guy did shows that his last brain cell has probably already died from lack of use...
About the Ctrl + C thing, if you select the text by holding your left mouse button down and dragging the pointer over the text so that it is highlighted, let go of the mouse button and then press "Ctrl" and "C" at the same time. The computer copies whatever you have selected to memory, (it won't appear to do anything, as this happens "behind the scenes"). Then, if your post disappears when you send it, all you have to do is start a new post, place the cursor in the post box and press "Ctrl" and "V" at the same time and it will paste the information from memory into the box on screen.
BTW, sorry if you already know that! I can't remember if Mark has a full explanantion of the copy and paste procedure. :)
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"That road rage bloke - well I'm no fighter, if I had to I would, same as most of us, but when you have 2 kiddies in the car the first thing to do is just to get away!"
Absoloutely right, I've got no kids to worry about but even I wouldn't be stopping for a fight with tanked up idiot! Like you say, just lock the doors and get out of there, too many people carry airguns, bats, etc. and you could easily come across one of them.
I know someone who kept an airgun in his car, not sure if it was for offence or defence, but he wrote the car off in some ridiculous manouvere (and unfortunately badly damaged two parked cars at the same time) so he doesn't have to worry about where to hide his gun now... Since seeing this sort of thing it makes me much more wary when out and about.
Hope you don't come across him again...
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I know someone who kept an airgun in his car, not sure if it was for offence or defence....
Did you know its perfectly legal to carry a baseball bat in your car, providing you also carry a ball as well?
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I was on the receiving end of a really stupid and dangerous piece of cutting-in yesterday that nearly cost me a wing. I had to lean on my horn as he obviously didn't even know I was on his inside. He never apologised or gave any acknowledgement of what he'd done; I had to satisfy myself with a particularly withering look and a despairing head shake, which earned me a vicious stare. So I felt forced into a juicy, easy-to-lip read expletive. I know it's not big, and it's not clever, but the combination of all these made me feel a bit better, if not a little scared - as HF says, there are some strange folk about. But why should they get away with it?
Some people just shouldn't be on the road.
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Sorry to hear you had a bad experience too, Carole. I don't know (and don't want to open a heated debate) about whether it's female drivers that tend to come on the receiving end of this sort of thing more than male drivers. Some might think that it's our drivng in the first place that gets us into these situations, others might have just as many cases of males being treated this way too.
But it IS frightening, and the thought that retaliating with our horn might lead us into great danger is a rather sobering thought.
HF
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I know someone who kept an airgun in his car, not sure if it was for offence or defence....
I seem to remeber another lad (also from Orpington, whilst we are on the subject of this fair town) who kept a replica pistol under his seat. He had a arguement and pulled it on another driver which resulted in a stay at her majestys pleasure.
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I think a stay at her majesty's pleasure is justified in this case! Fair Orpington, home of roadrage, guns (replica and otherwise), and all the other crimes that were once completely alien to this wondrous place.
Maybe moving to Lerwick isn't such a bad alternative after all.
HF
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DD: Does that logic apply to a crossbow and target?
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We're onto something here.........shotgun and rabbit?
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Naaaw, not rabbits!! I like 'em as they're meant to e, in the fields and alive!
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Dynamic and Blue - interesting points - can't believe I'm even thinking this way but maybe a sudden interest in playing baseball would be of some help to me!
Trouble is, though, when the other driver has a knife or a gun, I guess....
HF
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I believe that you can get a steering wheel lock that is manufactured in a baseball bat shape with a handle grip! :) (and yes it is just the right size for swinging) That could be very useful, and of course totally legal as it is a "novelty" item! :) Not that I think trying to use it would be a good idea, but it's a useful piece of back up in case the worst should happen.
To be honest though, I think it's bad that you, me, or anyone else has to think about carrying stuff like that, but unfortunately, all sorts of people have cars, from vicars down to murderers, and everyone in between. Therefore HF I think your "prevention" approach by locking doors etc. is better than the "cure" approach by smacking an intruding idiot around the head with a steering lock or baseball bat! :)
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I believe that you can get a steering wheel lock that is manufactured in a baseball bat shape with a handle grip!
You can indead:- www.speeding.co.uk/acatalog/Security.html
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It looks great!
But, Blue, you are right - any thoughts I might have had about seriously getting something like this were an overreaction caused by my experience with that fine gentleman.
The chances of me, as a female driver, really getting hauled out of my car and beaten up by a bloke are so small as to be almost non-existent (one example of where it's 'safer' to be female than male I suppose) - I could more easily imagine a fellow female driver in road-rage mode trying to do that to me than a man.
HF
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>> I know someone who kept an airgun in his car, not sure if it >> was for offence or defence.... Did you know its perfectly legal to carry a baseball bat in your car, providing you also carry a ball as well?
I have an old fashioned Krook-Lock, but no ball. The law is an Ass
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Thank you Blue :)
I will have to try the control/C thing again properly. Whenever I've tried to copy and paste something from here onto my post, or tried to copy and paste something from somewhere else, such as the internet or Word, onto a post here, it just doesn't do anything.
I think I'll have to experiment a bit. But apologies in advance if I end up posting blank posts for a while, until I get the hang of this!
HF
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Hi HF.
When I was a new driver someone undertook me while I was moving from lane 3 to lane 2. They were behind me when I started indicating and when I started moving left. I only avoided a high speed two car pile up as I made an over the shoulder check part way through the manoeuvre. Anyway I was quite frightened by this and reported the driver to the police for dangerous driving. (Bear in mind that I was an inexperienced driver.) The plod on the desk shouted to his mate "We've got a right one here" which I found insulting. Needless to day I left.
On another occasion, before I could drive, I saw 3 or 4 children stealing a car. It was broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon near Hayes town centre. I was astonished to see people standing around and not doing anything. Anyway I dialled 999, then saw one of the children running so gave chase. I could not catch him as I was very tired (walking 10+ miles in the New Forest) and I was carrying a heavy back pack and camera tripod. Anyway, one of the children drove off in the stolen car, after repeatedly shunting the cars in front and behind. The local police rang me back 15 minutes later and asked me 3 or 4 times to describe what happened. I was rather shocked by the tone of the PC which was one of utter boredom and lack of interest, though I had the feeling he thought I had made a hoax call. He seemed annoyed that I did not get the plate and description of the car. Given that I was on the phone to a PC when the car was stolen they could have told me to do just that. (I was a non-driver and knew nothing about cars.) The next time I saw a car being driven by joy-riders I did not bother to contact the police.
Part of the reason why I am cynical about the police is that I have been stopped and searched numerous times by plain clothes and uniform while out walking in the countryside. On one occasion plain clothes ran up to me in broad daylight, refused to id themselves, pushed me against a wall and did a body search. It was quite frightening and I was trembling at the time. (After all I did not know who they really were. It could have been a clever mugging tactic.) They then told me repeatedly that they did not mind me having drugs as long as I kept them at home. I said I had no drugs. (I didn't.) I almost said "Yes thanks I'll do that" just to get rid of them as they were very persistent. My father later pointed out that they were looking for an excuse to get a warrant to search my home and so I was very lucky not to be arrested. (I was a bit naive then.) I would have thought that such dishonest entrapment can do nothing other than alienate innocent people. In fact I beieve that stop and search merely institutionalises the prejudices of the police and of society as a whole since they are pretty much like the rest of us.
Sorry to rant on a bit. (Better out than in as they say.) Despite my cynicism I do think we are lucky to have a largely honest and decent police force. But they are not interested in small crimes regardless of how frightening for the victim.
Leif.
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Hi Leif,
Thanks for posting all that, believe me I do not find it boring, on the contrary some very good points (and bad experiences) which really do give some understanding into the apathy that many people have about reporting crimes to the police these days.
The stop and search thing - well in your case the police's attitude was clearly unjustified and very wrong. Of COURSE you might have thought they were muggers, and had you decided to try to defend yourself against them, I wonder what the outcome would have been? You trying to defend yourself against the charge of assaulting a police offcer, I suppose.
I do think that on the whole the police do a good job in difficult circumstances, but there are bad apples in every basket. IMHO the theory of stop and search is a good one - after all, like the ID card argument, how many of us would really object to being searched if we had done nothing wrong? Your case though, illustrates the fact that there are some police who are corrupt (as you say like in the whole of society), and who will do anything to intimidate, entrap, or even frame their victim. I'm sure these are in the minority, but it's something that needs to be looked at if the public are going to be able to renew their faith in the police service.
Thanks for your post, Leif.
HF
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Hi HF.
Glad you didn't take my posting as anti police. It wasn't intended to be. Yes they should stop people if they have good cause. My concern is that they often don't have good cause and in these circumstances it is - unless I am mistaken - very ineffective at locating criminals. I'd better leave it at that as it is not really car related and anyway, now that I have grey hair I don't get stopped anymore!
On a more car related note, a colleague was stopped over 30 times by the police in his first year of driving. Each time he had to take unpaid time off from work to take documents to a local Plod-R-Us franchise. Seems they thought he was underage. I can understand the police doing what they did but my colleague was less than happy. They should have issued him with a false beard for use while driving. It would have been cheaper for them.
Leif.
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On a more car related note, a colleague was stopped over 30 times by the police in his first year of driving. Each time he had to take unpaid time off from work to take documents to a local Plod-R-Us franchise. Seems they thought he was underage. I can understand the police doing what they did but my colleague was less than happy. They should have issued him with a false beard for use while driving. It would have been cheaper for them. Leif.
If the OB thought he was underage and stopped him 30 times, why didn't he carry a passport or something similar with him when he drove?
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My brother in law was stopped many times for no apparent reason in one car that he used to own.
It turns out that the vehicle used to be in the ownership of one of the local criminal fraternity and the change of owner took time to filter round Plodland.
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>>colleague was stopped over 30 times by the police in his first year
Aside from whether or not this is accurate, or why it should happen to him in particular - he does take a *long* time to learn, doesn't he.
Why wouldn;t he just carry the documents ?
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The first time I encountered road rage was so many years ago that the term hadn’t been invented. I was driving our rather lovely Cresta pretty niftily down a very wide local avenue heading towards a T-junction where I would turn left. As I began slowing down preparatory to turning a lorry turned right into the avenue but on the wrong side of the road heading towards me at speed. I slammed me anchors on and stopped dead. He then lurched to the right and pulled up.
I, in the meantime, was murmuring an anglo saxon word or two learnt at my docker father’s knee. The other driver exited his vehicle and in High Noon fashion sashayed down the road towards me. He snarled something on the lines of ‘expletive deleted woman drivers’ and open your ‘expletive deleted window’. I responded by politely ignoring his request and pointed out that either he hadn’t passed his test, or if he had then the examiner must have been deaf, blind and stupid; or of course as his driving was so bad then he was probably a woman in disguise. At this point he had his hand on my car roof. I then actually took a real hard look at his face and it was the first time I had ever seen such a cold, distant, evil look in anyone’s eyes – the other two times since have both been wife (not this one) beaters whose violent rages were brought on by drink.
He then seemed to begin to quietly and menacingly fizz up and I just knew that some kind of physical altercation was likely to ensue so I got my foot down hard and had it away on my wheels pretty smartish. He was left standing in the middle of the road wildly gesticulating.
Now that I am older but not necessarily wiser I would hazard a guess that he had been drinking quite heavily. Drugs of course in those days wouldn’t have entered the equation.
I don’t think I would be quite so lippy these days.
I also now drive with the doors locked at all times. And my handbag is not left on the front passenger seat but is put in the rear passenger foot well whilst en route as a precautionary measure.
Ritaa
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Hi Rita,
That must have been a truly horrific experience, and thanks for posting it here.
Like you, I have seen many a time that look in someone's eyes that tells you they are about to cross the border - guess I was lucky in my little road-rage incident that I didn't see the same thing - just pure unjustified anger, scarey but not of the type that you mention and to which I am not a stranger.
Of course it's best for all of us not to mouth off in our defence, or even blast our horn - we just have to accept and keep quiet. Which to me doesn't sound quite right but if it preserves our safety then so be it.
Glad you keep your doors locked - and your bag out of the way.
Keep safe
HF
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He was stopped because he looked underage. And I do think it was accurate as he is one of the most decent and honest people I know. A likeable middle age middle class family man with three kids. Not a trace of anti-police sentiment in him. And not a twisted cynic like me. In fact he almost said "Eee, I was honoured to be stopped 30 times. Well, almost." He is currently on holiday doing up the shower for his mother in law but I'll ask him when he is back why he had to go to the local Plod-R-Us franchise rather than just carry the documents with him.
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Mark.
I have checked up. He was stopped 17 times in 3 years (so I was somewhat inaccurate in my description). On one occasion he was stopped because the hand brake cable had broken and was dragging along the road (clearly good work by the police.)
He believes it was because he looked underage which correlates with the police suddenly losing interest in him at age 21. He had several cars in 3 years so it wasn't the car. He had to present driving licence, MOT certificate, insurance document and vehicle reg. doc. at a local Plod-U-Like. He says he did not carry them with him as he did not wish to leave such documents in the car in case it was nicked, and it was not practical to carry them on his person.
On one occasion he got a court summons as they had misplaced the records stating that he had shown documents as requested. They later found evidence in a police log book to support him so he was not done.
Phew.
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So why did he have to take time off work to produce his docs? He had seven days to produce and many stations are open all hours. I suppose he couldn't have been driving in a stupid manner of course.
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