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MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Cuz

Background

We live on a VERY steep hill on a single track lane out in the Yorkshire Dales. Last winter we were marooned several times in our front-wheel drive car. Unable to "waggle" our way back to the top of the hill...we sometimes had to reverse back down - knowing a farmer could appear around a corner in his 4x4 - which was quite scary!

Solution?

So, this year I was wondering about buying an old 4x4 to run through the winter months. I was thinking about something like a year 2000 Suzuki Jimny. Also wondered about a Fiat Panda 4x4 (although I believe the all-wheel drive version starts at 2005).

I do have chains for our front-wheel drive car...but they are a hassle to fit in the dark. I think a 4x4 - with winter tyres could be the solution...

I would appreciate advice from anyone who's faced a similar predicament.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - slidejules

how much have you got to spend? my wife drives a little rav4 which was great in the snow...

something else to consider are "snow socks". Like chains but they are, well, basically a sock made out of a very durable fabric which goes over the tyre. I know they sound like a gimmick but trust me, I've used them for years in the french alps while on skiing holidays (and I'm talking serious snow and steep climbs here). They take max 2 minutes to put on, you don't freeze your fingers off like you do with chains, and they take about 5 seconds to pull off. fantastic invention... and cheaper than buying a new car!

seriously, I heartily recommend them.... www.autosock.co.uk (no I don't work for them!)

Jules

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - bathtub tom

A set of Winter tyres on cheap steel wheels may well be a simpler option.

A FWD on proper snow tyres will give you all the traction you require - speak to people who do it!

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Cuz

l've driven across Canada in January in a FWD and the French Alps on several occasions and almost got to 60 without feeling the need to 'give in' to a 4x4.

However, because our hill is steep and single track with bends it's a real problem if you meet a farmer - when going up - and have to stop. The steepness of the hill means it's nigh impossible to restart (slipping the clutch in a high-ish gear) without stalling! Although if said road is icy too then the weight of the car and the effects of gravity soon have you heading backwards!

To put it into perspective, last year, the farmer who is employed by the Council to grit the road - but wasn't doing it on a regular basis - told us that he feared damaging his tractor on one of the walls if he got into a slide!

For me it's not so much the 4x4 but the low ratio gearbox that will help out on such a steep hill...and get us higher into the Dales for a spot of cross-county skiing and snow-shoeing in winter!

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - SteveLee

A set of Winter tyres on cheap steel wheels may well be a simpler option.

A FWD on proper snow tyres will give you all the traction you require - speak to people who do it!

Absolutely.
MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Cuz

Thanks for responding Jules. Sound advice. I have a friend who also uses autosocks - and swears by them...when driving in deep snow. Like the chains, though, I know my wife would find them a hassle to fit - even if it is only a matter of minutes...

I was looking to spend a max of £3k (hence looking at Jimny!) as it really is just for winter use. We already have 2 cars...

Thanks

Dave C

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - injection doc

ther is no substitute for 4WD even with chains etc.

I used to keep a Panda 4x4 for the winter and actually kept it 20 years and that used to go anywhere in the snow however deep and because it was light you could drive really fast as well. Jimmy is another littel gem

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Collos25

Injection doc has named one of the best 4x4 cars on the market they will go just about anywhere it would be my first choice with the Jimny a close second.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - AndyT

Apart from the cost involved in running a 3rd car, I'd say the Jimny in low range 4wd, and with winter tyres fitted, would ideal for idling down a steep, slippy lane.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - jc2

Just returned from the Dolomites-4WD Pandas of all ages to be seen.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Cuz

Thanks for the input folks...and helpful advice...much appreciated.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - AnotherWaiting

Also consider the Daihatsu terios, cheap as chips and lasts forever.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - SteveLee

Also consider the Daihatsu terios, cheap as chips and lasts forever.

Ditto for Daihatsu Sporttrak.
MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - injection doc

yep & don't listen to those who say a normal car will do just the same fitted with winter tyres bacuse whilst traction is improved my neighbour had a light weight FWD car with excellent winter tyres on it but the panda 4x4 could get up to 60 in the snow up the long steep hill we had to encounter before my neighbour could even get into 2nd gear & with the crude 4WD you could brake hard as well becuase the wheels couldn't lock in 4WD so no sliding.

The one thing about the Pandas was they were so underrated but so much better even than my Landrover 90! I never has so much fun than i did with a Panda, the only thing I did wrong was to tow a car in the snow whilst the chap tried to bump start it & when he let the clutch out the rear wheels locked & it went like a pendulem and slapped everything in sight but the panda never even slowed & the grip was remarkable.

One day i will dig out some photos of it ploughing through deep snow

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Cuz

Thanks for more helpful advice. It's good to get some useful input...to help me make a decision...and much appreciated!

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Sofa Spud
A 4x4 will be better at getting up a snowy hill than a 2 wheel-drive car, but that still doesn't mean that it won't get stuck!

One very important thing to keep in mind about 4x4s on snow and ice: They can keep going better than a 2 wheel-drive but they're no better at stopping.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - injection doc

Sorry sofa spud but a light weight 4x4 will stop very well in snow and ice, and after owning 3 Panda 4x4's and having been through many winters & deep snow in Wales i can assure you they stop very well. Infact I used to be able to drive up and over mounds of snow left by ploughs or bull dozers! but my landrover couldn't so the advanatge of a light weight 4x4 is it doesn't sink into the snow. I can go as far as to say when i took people with me they were astonished at how I could drive along at 50-60 and stop quite normally in snow 18 inches deep !

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - piston power

Get two steel wheels from scrap yard and fit M+S tyres to front fwd cars and drive it in a higher gear don't spin wheels get traction.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Sofa Spud
QUOTE:...""Sorry sofa spud but a light weight 4x4 will stop very well in snow and ice, and after owning 3 Panda 4x4's and having been through many winters & deep snow in Wales i can assure you they stop very well.""

Ah, but did you compare the stopping ability of your Panda 4x4 in ice to see if it was superior to that of a 2 wheel-drive Panda?

All cars have 4-wheel brakes and all modern cars have ABS. On hard-packed snow and ice, chunky tyre treads make little difference.

I used to have a Land Rover 90 and I used to participate in off-road trials with it, so I'm well-versed in descending steep slippery slopes, under control, with feet off all pedals, in very low gear with the diff-lock on, letting the transmission do the work.

But on a downhill stretch of hard-packed icy snow, on a narrow road, I would doubt whether it would be any easier to bring a Land Rover to a stop than, say, a Ford Focus.

I really just wanted to warn any potential owner that it's possible to have a false sense of security in a 4x4 in icy conditions. While one should drive slowly and avoid using the brakes, sometimes you just have to, and it's those occasions when a 4x4 offers no advantage.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 07/11/2010 at 21:42

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - injection doc
Hi Sofaspud
I am also well adverse to off-roading etc & yes we did also have a 2wd panda 1000cl but the grip even with M&S tyres was no where near the same as the 4wd and the wheels would lock up if you braked too hard.
The one good thing about the crude 4wd system was that there was no centre diff so all four wheels were in constant drive , hence when you braked it was near impossible to lock a wheel and when you accelerated all the power was distributed to all four wheels and because it was so light it was the most agile vehicle I have ever come across in the snow. thats why in the Alps the Panda's are one of the most popular 4x4 vehicles.
I agree that a Landrover 90 and focus in icy conditions would both be difficult to stop and I have a new Freelander 2 but whilst it was very good in the snow last year with its modern electronic attributes,I wouldn't drive it down a hill at speed or round a corner fast if it was icy due to its weight! but with a Panda 4X4 would still jump in one now with great confidence
MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Paul G1pdc

Until 6 month ago i owned a impreza 2.0 sport...no no not a go faster WRX with spoilers and grp 20 insurance...

but a un-turboed 2litre engine, the estate (sport wagon) has a low ratio gearbox, the saloon doesn't. also the estate/sport wagon is cheaper to buy than the saloon, as all the rally boys want the saloon look/styling....perminate AWD. skinny 15" wheels/tyres and Low range....bye bye bmws and mercs who usually sit on the back bumper....pay back was sweet...hahahahaha.......and the photos of the impreza with snow up to the doors are great....

.costs.... mine was traded in for £2500. on a 03 reg. with FSH and 60k on the clock. reason for selling it, was 29mpg on my 50mile work run was getting silly. insurance grp 13. service period 12k , 0-62 was just under 10secs. so good enough for daily use. My father in laws on his 2nd legacy. (in the snow, apart from the MD in his series 2 landie the works car-park was empty...and everyone else had to take day holiday.........for me it was the fact that you couldn't disconnect the perm AWD that meant 29mpg was in the end a reason to sell....i miss the old girl though....how easy was it to put in low ratio...well just dip the clutch, and pull up the lever next to the handbrake. then a little dash light somes on....job done....it used to half the speed that first gear gave you...ie in a traffic jam or snow you could crawl along without slipping the clutch slower than the average person can walk.....great for taking the children sledging as well....we got to placed that only "proper" 4X4s got to...want mine back now.......bo hooooo

paul.

ex-impreza sport wagon owner. (oh if you look for one...the cam/belt change its at 50,000 miles or 5 years...its easy to change as its right at the front of the car. but the belt itself from subaru is £100....

just found the below on the panda......The 4x4 is a different sort of animal with raised 165cm ride height and chunky 185/65 x 14 or optional 185/70 x 14 M+S tyres. Its suspension is stiffer so on the road its ride quality suffers a bit, but it corners flatter so the extra height does not seriously affect its handling. It’s slow, though. Zero to 60 takes nearly 20 seconds.

Edited by Paul G1pdc on 08/11/2010 at 10:01

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - injection doc
This will probably demonstarte justy how agile and fun the old panda4x4 is in the snow and watch just how fast he's prepared to drive between the trees!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhkoiA9BV6w&feature=related

and another go anywhere panda 4x4

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q__alE2HIEs&feature=related
MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Niallster

I have personally seen a Daihatsu Fourtrak pull big Landrovers out of snow banks. They are tough little beasts. Now very rere only two natioowide on Autotrader. People tend to hang on to them. Very basic inside if that is a consioderation, they were built as work tools.

Can not speak for the later Terios as I moved on to a sensible job before they were introduced but people speak well of them.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - NARU

Get two steel wheels from scrap yard and fit M+S tyres to front fwd cars and drive it in a higher gear don't spin wheels get traction.

M&S is simply a discription of the tread design, and there's no official test behind it. The pathetic tyres on my landcruiser were M&S marked but not much cop. You really need to be looking for a snowflake symbol.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Scrap Car UK

Personally last year i had a mercedes c220 cdi on a 2002 which i used snow chains and it was awful! This year i have just got a freelander 2.5 v6 on a 2002. i have been told that it will be fine in the snow and read a few reviews thats why i didnt go with the 1.8! But untill the snow falls i dont know if it will be ok??

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - injection doc

heres the best little 4x4 money can buy

www.carandclassic.com/car/C178770/

My own one achieved over 225000 miles in 20 years

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - Pat L

One of my brothers has just bought a Honda CR-V 2.0 petrol for winter use. 2000 W reg, 1 owner, full Honda history, immaculate inside, very good outside, full MOT - £1500. he hasn't used in the snow yet but it certainly looks and feel like it'll cope.

MAROONED - Will a small 4x4 help beat the snow? - Second-hand reliable and cheap small 4x4 - sandy56
For Snow a good front wheel drive car with snow tyres is almost unstoppable.
I changed to a big FWD Renault and never had problems in deep snow.