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This is just a quick word of advice to anyone who has a problem with a faulty VW fuel injector.
I believe there is an inherent fault in the design, certainly in the 05/06 batches. I have a VW Touran '56 plate 2 litre TDi 170PS. My car has suffered 2 total engine failures within 6 months of one another whilst driving at high speed on motorway/dual carriageway. On both occasions I managed to steer the car to the hard shoulder and safely evacuate my family. However, both incidents were potentially life threatening as we were travelling at high speed and there was a lot of traffic on the road. I dread to think what might have happened had we been overtaking on a main road when the failure occurred - it could well have resulted in a head on collision.
This is a very serious issue. VW Passatts and Tourans are family vehicles and families are being put in danger. I have 3 children and after the 2nd failure I was undersatndably very concerned for their safety. Immediately after the second incident and suspecting it was the fuel injectors again, I called VW Customer Services and complained that I no longer had confidence in their car, that I thought there was a design flaw in the fuel injector and that it belied their reputation for safety and reliability. They informed me, without any duress, that if it transpired the fuel injectors were again at fault, they would replace the entire set of 4, complete with new wiring loom, at no cost to me. After inspection, this was found to be the case and the work was carried out quickly, competently and was completely free. It probably amounted to about £4,000 in total.
I believe that VW are aware of this issue. I think they would rather deal with it quietly and repair vehicles that are reported faulty, rather than quibble about it and risk news of it reaching the public domain. If the fault is occurring on a regular basis and putting people's lives at risk, it could be catastrophic for them and necessitate a total recall of the models in question. So obviously they would rather field customer complaints, take the hit and deal with it quietly.
As a result of my experiences I have joined this forum to strongly advise anyone who has suffered this fault to immediately report it to VW Customer Services and insist on complete replacement of all 4 injectors and the wiring loom. This is the safest option, which VW themselves recommend - so do not settle for anything less. It is their responsibility to keep drivers safe if they are aware of an inherent fault.
I am pleased that my injectors have been replaced, although I'm still not 100% confident when driving at speed. Who knows if this could happen again? The question also arises as to why there is no safety override built into the system or software, so that the engine does not completely lose power as soon as a single injector fails. Surely the engine could keep running so that the driver retains some control over the vehicle? It is a question I am not technically qualified to answer and one that, as yet, I have had no satisfactory answer to - so If anyone out there could explain that to me, I would be very interested to learn.
Finally, just to reiterate, if it happens to you, insist on full replacement of a parts and wiring for free-and do not accept anything less. If you stick to your guns, they will do it.
I hope this posting has been helpful.
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Hi, I have a 55 plate Passat and am losing power while driving (although not stalling), however VW say the fuel injectors are fine and are saying that replacing the Throttle pedal sensor and camshaft position sensor - a £400 cost- 'should' resolve the problem if it doesn't i'll then be getting more work done to the car...did you have similar problems with lack of power and do you suggest I contact vw directly?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bhav
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Only yesterday I’ve had the same problem, this is for a 4th time. I brought the car second hand in December 2021 with the car having only 76000 miles on the clock , after having having a full major service by vw main dealer in March I thought I had a safe reliable family car.
How wrong was I - in April travelling along a A road the car without any signs just lost all power , resulting on me having to fight with the wheel as power steering was lost luckily I made it to the side of the road. I then payed for the faulty injector and wiring loom to be fixed , the garage I took it to , did mention replacing all injectors but at that time could not afford to do.
I then picked up the car after the garage saying the problem is fixed , after driving for 2 miles the car started stuttering resulting on me taking it back saying they have not fixed the car , they ran another diagnostics saying another of the injectors had gone. So having still got time left on our 6 months warranty complained to the garage I brought the car from they said they would pay towards the work to be done.
After over a month of not having a car they eventually fixed the problem, we picked the car up and drove it home only to find the problem still there stuttering, then when home called them only for them to say it’s not the injectors it’s your gear engine oil filter. So we took the car to a vw specialist after having the filter replaced got the call it’s done but it’s not the issue it’s the injector 4 which is causing the issue.
So then contacted garage from where the car was brought AGAIN to explain and they said the would fix it , with no confidence whatsoever in them fixing it with new parts gave it back to them to fix having no option due to spending all my redundancy money on the car and trying to fix the issues.
Picked the car up 3 weeks late after given date thinking all was fixed and at last had a road worthy car , took the car on a 30 journey to the seaside with my 7 year old daughter journey there all good coming home on the M23 at 70mph the car lost all power wile in the middle lane. Luckily I made it to the hard shoulder but it could of been so worse , I’ve definitely had a lucky escape.
We are going to take the garage to court for a full refund having complained in a letter before the warranty was up about selling a faulty dangerous vehicle. Hopefully we will win in a small claims court , but how is vw getting away with this life Threatening issue? If anyone has any advice it will be welcome.
[inserted some paragraphs to make it a bit easier to read and therefore more likely to get some advice - mod]
Edited by Xileno on 30/07/2021 at 10:39
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Above message the car is a 2006 vw Passat 2.0L tdi
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This is just a quick word of advice to anyone who has a problem with a faulty VW fuel injector.
I believe there is an inherent fault in the design, certainly in the 05/06 batches. I have a VW Touran '56 plate 2 litre TDi 170PS. My car has suffered 2 total engine failures within 6 months of one another whilst driving at high speed on motorway/dual carriageway. On both occasions I managed to steer the car to the hard shoulder and safely evacuate my family. However, both incidents were potentially life threatening as we were travelling at high speed and there was a lot of traffic on the road. I dread to think what might have happened had we been overtaking on a main road when the failure occurred - it could well have resulted in a head on collision.
This is a very serious issue. VW Passatts and Tourans are family vehicles and families are being put in danger. I have 3 children and after the 2nd failure I was understandably very concerned for their safety. Immediately after the second incident and suspecting it was the fuel injectors again, I called VW Customer Services and complained that I no longer had confidence in their car, that I thought there was a design flaw in the fuel injector and that it belied their reputation for safety and reliability. They informed me, without any duress, that if it transpired the fuel injectors were again at fault, they would replace the entire set of 4, complete with new wiring loom, at no cost to me. After inspection, this was found to be the case and the work was carried out quickly, competently and was completely free. It probably amounted to about £4,000 in total.
I believe that VW are aware of this issue. I think they would rather deal with it quietly and repair vehicles that are reported faulty, rather than quibble about it and risk news of it reaching the public domain. If the fault is occurring on a regular basis and putting people's lives at risk, it could be catastrophic for them and necessitate a total recall of the models in question. So obviously they would rather field customer complaints, take the hit and deal with it quietly.
As a result of my experiences I have joined this forum to strongly advise anyone who has suffered this fault to immediately report it to VW Customer Services and insist on complete replacement of all 4 injectors and the wiring loom. This is the safest option, which VW themselves recommend - so do not settle for anything less. It is their responsibility to keep drivers safe if they are aware of an inherent fault.
I am pleased that my injectors have been replaced, although I'm still not 100% confident when driving at speed. Who knows if this could happen again? The question also arises as to why there is no safety override built into the system or software, so that the engine does not completely lose power as soon as a single injector fails. Surely the engine could keep running so that the driver retains some control over the vehicle? It is a question I am not technically qualified to answer and one that, as yet, I have had no satisfactory answer to - so If anyone out there could explain that to me, I would be very interested to learn.
Finally, just to reiterate, if it happens to you, insist on full replacement of a parts and wiring for free-and do not accept anything less. If you stick to your guns, they will do it.
I hope this posting has been helpful.
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The Siemens injectors fitted to this engine are flawed in concept and execution. I have reason to believe also that the associated electronics have no reversionary mode if an injector exhibits a ground fault - the engine just stops.
In the absence of a definitive statement from VAG that they have changed the design of the late PD engine's fuel system - with the results of testing, I would not consider it suitable for my own use and would suggest that it may be a danger to others. The earlier PD engines with Bosch solenoid operated injectors are safe.
VAG are trying to get out of this by "goodwill" - a clever trick. Frighten the owner with the prospect of a big bill and then, after a squirm period, offer to pay it. The owner then forgets that he was sold a dangerous pile of rubbish in the first place.
659.
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Injector 2 on my 2005 2.0L Passat cut out on the fast lane of a dual carraigeway 5 months ago which was very dangerous. I then had to pay €1200 to get a new one. Now the second injector is faulty. I can't afford to replace it so I have rang VW who said they do not think there is a problem in general with them and probably would not look favourably. I have said fine and that I will take it further as I and my wife could have ben killed and have no confidence in it. I am now going to submit this to VW through the local VW dealer.
Edited by PatLimerick on 23/06/2011 at 12:51
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Injector 2 on my 2005 2.0L Passat cut out on the fast lane of a dual carraigeway 5 months ago which was very dangerous. I then had to pay €1200 to get a new one. Now the second injector is faulty. I can't afford to replace it so I have rang VW who said they do not think there is a problem in general with them and probably would not look favourably. I have said fine and that I will take it further as I and my wife could have ben killed and have no confidence in it. I am now going to submit this to VW through the local VW dealer.
There is a problem and they are aware of it. Be persistent and do not accept anything less than full replacement. This is a very dangerous fault as you well know and they should not be putting people's lives at risk by quibbling over what is, for them, a miniscule amount. If this issue were to enter the public domain they'd soon be forking out much larger sums, you can count on that!
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There seems to be a concept problem with this modification of the PD fuel system which may render it unsafe for general use on the road.
PD engines have the entire fuel pump/injector assembly running in oil - it's inside the engine. This is very highly beneficial to the moving parts such as the roller cam followers. Common rail engines have the injectors external to the engine's lubricant. This is a significant difference which means that this type of failure cannot occur.
Oil in diesel engines contains a significant quantity of soot towards the end of use (before an oil change) and will conduct when a high voltage gradient is applied to it. The earlier Bosch injectors were low voltage/high current devices, so this was not a limitation - an "oil induced" short circuit would not occur. The first generation PD engines were therefore safe.
The change from Bosch to Siemens piezo actuated injectors required the fitment of a high voltage invertor to the ECU to provide the required drive voltage - and there is only one of these per ECU, to my knowledge.
In a Siemens PD injector, the presence of a conducting path within the actuator for the injector servo valve (caused by oil ingress or a mechanical failure) will place an overload on the invertor within the ECU - which will then shut down for its own safety.
Then everything stops.
In my opinion, this Siemens system represents an ill-conceived development of the PD system insofar as parts carrying high voltages by necessity, run in potentially conductive lubricating oil. Due to the non-reversionary capability of the ECU, a single short will stop the engine.
My view is that VOSA should consider stipulating that all ECUs fitted to this system should be changed for a design incorporating twin DC/DC invertors so that the system, in the event of an injector short or wiring fault, will fail gracefully and some engine function will be retained. This would allow safe steering and braking following a failure.
Nobody would be allowed to design an aircraft like this - my opinion is that VAG have messed up the design of the PD engine by the fitment of these injectors and probably knew they had. I wonder if VAG sold the Siemens injectors into the US?
VAG have had a few tastes of the US Transport Regulation Authorities in the past and would probably not want to mess with them. The size of the potential market there makes compliance with their regulations essential.
659.
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I wonder if VAG sold the Siemens injectors into the US?
I don't believe so. VW did not sell diesel cars in the US after 2005 because they could no longer meet the tightened emissions requirements. There was a hiatus until late 2008 when the common rail 4v engine was introduced.
What is interesting about that engine (the 4v CR) is that the US version doesn't seem to be having problems with its particulate trap. Now whether this is due to different duty cycles (no one in the US woud be silly enough to buy a diesel if they only drove 7000 miles pa) or because the fitment of a lean NOx trap means that engine-out NOx can be increased which should allow engine out PM to decrease.
The salient point for european diesel fans is that the US compliant diesels get significantly poorer consumption than their Euro V equivalents.
Edited by unthrottled on 27/06/2011 at 16:43
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Hi there,
This is a great thread and really helped me get through the anguish and understand the issue with my car (06 Passat 2.0 TDi 140 ps) and these engines in general.
I had the same fault as most on here - car cuts out without earning, "Engine Failure - Workshop", etc... Garage say it's a faulty injector. Cost with labour - nearly £1,000.
I took the advice of contacting VW UK Customer Service and calmly explained what happened, the report from the garage and said how utterly astonished and frustrated that the car would just cut out like that (it could have been fatal) and VW haven't done a recall or at least tried to do something about this - with what is a popular family car. I said I have lost failth with VW and I don't think I could drive my Passat any more as I'd be paranoid something will happen again - when I'm overtaking something or on a busy motorway.
The friendly guy at VW was very understanding and said he has assigned a case manager and they'll talk to the garage and investigate my claims.
My worry is that I wont get this goodwill gesture (100% or 70% or whatever) from VW whenn I've not used VW to service my car for the last 2 years. Do you think they'll use this against me and say they have no guarantee something wasn't damaged or properly looked after due to this?
Neil
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Another owner with the same car/problem.
My Passat 2.0 TDI 06 Plate with 55,000 miles developed this problem whilst on holiday with the whole family. Fortunately it cut out/stalled on the driveway of the holiday cottage so wasn't dangerous as such.
Called RAC who came out and attached the computer. Almost before this was complete the engineer said he thought he knew the problem.. sure enough it was an injector failure/short to ground. I suspect he'd seen several the same.
He called the local VW garage who (oddly I thought) told him I could expect VW "support" for this problem. This alterted me to look up on Google and I found this/other similar threads. I called VW central 0800 number and was told pretty much there and then that "they would support this case" (I have a full service - well 2 services i think on the variable interval).
The car was towed and the dealer called to confirm no.3 injector had failed and that VAG would be picking up 100% of the bill.
Not sure what to do now re the other 3 - as the story is that they only replace faulty ones. I have submitted a case to the VOSA webiste and a chap there has passed it to the colleague "dealing with the VW injector issue".
Hope this helps people with the VW/VAG paying part at least. Only rejoined the VW assistance on a monthly premium last week, so feeling quite lucky..
niche
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Update.
I have spoken to the case manager from VW and she's asking me to fax the invoice to her, once I have it. She said they need to see that the new parts are genuine VW (garage assures me they are) and the part number.
I asked if this meant they would pay 100% of the costs but she wouldn't say anything until she saw the invoice. Hindsight tells me I should have taken the car to a VW dealer like I was planning to (until guy who towed car away insisted they'd be cheaper).
I was also thinking about flaggin the issue with VOSA if I don't get 70-100% costs back. Niche.. can you let me know how the process goes?
Neil
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SUCCESS!
VW are reimbursing me 100% for the £950 cost of replacing the faulty injector (at independent garage). AND are going to replace the other 3 injectors for free in the next few days!
Note to anyone who gets their car repaired at a non-VW dealer, with this issue... you must make sure the garage fit genuine VW parts. VW said they wouldn't have reimbursed me if they weren't genuine VW parts.
Many many thanks to this site and forum posters! Without this, I may not have got reimbursed for this repair.
All the best.
Neil
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Same experience as Neil: 06 Passat 2.0TDI.
One injector went and was fixed for £850 at a trusted VW specialist. Had some diagnostics done as part of long life service and they indicated that another injector had 'exceeded its range'.
Found this thread, contacted VW customer care and it's gone fantastically well from there. They have a well used approach to this issue: take your car into VW dealership, they run the diagnostics, they replace the rest. No arguments, incredibly polite and efficient service.
I have also been promised a refund for the first injector that was replaced at my expenses at non-VW dealer. Luckily a genuine VW part used.
Can only echo this: 'Many many thanks to this site and forum posters! Without this, I may not have got reimbursed for this repair.'
Best,
Matt
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