VW Golf Mk5 TDI - Strange judder / shudder accelerating in 6th gear - golfgtdude

Hi everyone,

Got this most annoying issue with my car, been the same for numerous months now.

Basically whilst at motorway speeds in 6th gear, hovering around the 2500rpm mark (where pull seems strongest), if i spring some sudden acceleration I can feel a judder occuring through the car accompanied by a hesitation of power. The judder is brief and then the car continues to accelerate.

From cold in the morning, just as the engine temp reaches 90 degrees the car behaves fine but after a few more times driving as described about the judder emerges.

I notice it more when the car is under load, going up hills and with a fuller load (e.g. passender, luggage and full tank of fuel).

I've had it into an independant specialist who couldn't find any diagnostic errors but guessed that it might be the Mass Airflow Sensor - that was duly changed but made no difference.

I'm lothed to take it to a VW dealer now its out of warranty as I feel they'll charge enormous amounts of money to change all sorts until they find the true cause.

Anyone out there had this issue on their VW or another VAG vehicle?

VW Golf Mk5 TDI - Strange judder / shudder accelerating in 6th gear - andy-seat
Hi
Did you get the problem sorted?

We have a Seat Alhambra TDI (VW diesel engine), and it developed a fault doing a lot of motorway driving last summer. Took it to our mechanic who could not replicate the fault, but tried replacing a mounting on the drive shaft I think. The problem seemed to go away, but is now back.

Shuddering is variable and only seems to start at speed, and under load or going up hill. The floor of the car vibrates, rather than steering wheel. Altering speed or changing gear can cause it to go away, but then after a while it comes back.

Our mechanic has checked the part he replaced last time but it seems OK. So he is questioning whether it was really fixed.
VW Golf Mk5 TDI - Strange judder / shudder accelerating in 6th gear - frogtamer

We have exactly the same problem!!

Started just before Christmas and got told it was the DMF so we had that changed, 3 weeks later it has come back and i am at the end of my tether now!

Got told today it was an inside CV joint, but after looking taking it off and having a look there is nothing wrong with the CV joint.

Everything you have said about your Alhambra is how i would explain my Alhambra is doing .......

Let me know if you get this sorted and vice versa please.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - frogtamer

Just bumping this up as really needing help with this problem.

Any advice or tip would be great please....

cheers from a fed up wifey

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - Peter.N.

If this problem is engine related you would be better taking it to a diesel specialist as they usually know what they are doing and are cheaper.

VW Golf Mk5 TDI - Strange judder / shudder accelerating in 6th gear - davmal
Slipping clutch? Worn or contaminated, bang the power down, the clutch slips momentarily the bites again.
VW Golf Mk5 TDI - Strange judder / shudder accelerating in 6th gear - mastertechGeoff

IIt sounds like it's a fuelling issue when the boost comes in where it's not getting the correct amount of fuel or perhaps it's over boosting, It could also be a fault with the egr system, Your best bet is to get the pump and injector calibration checked and injector leakoff values measured. Make sure your car has not been chipped or ecu software upgraded for performance and try using a premium Diesel fuel initially and see if that has a effect, if it improves it will give you a indication that it is fuel related, It could be a vibration from the flywheel thats transmitting but if there is a fault with the fuelling it will do that anyway and will probably be fine when the fuelling fault is rectified. so in brief try a premium diesel, if it improves get a diesel specialists to investigate furthur.

VW Golf Mk5 TDI - Strange judder / shudder accelerating in 6th gear - gfewster

It is has a DPF (not sure with that model) then it could be clogged. Often gives the symptoms you describe but would not be specific to one gear.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - andy-seat

Thanks for the suggestions and support.

I assume that you have not got any further with your Alhambra frogtamer?

Our problem is getting worse, but still intermittent. Fortunately my wife just drives the car on local journey, but is now playing up on almost every hill now.

The car does not seem to slow down when the fault occurs (which I assume means that all cylinders are still firing) but is sluggish and unresponsive on the accelerator. The vibration is only on the floor of the car not on the steering wheel so I am sure its source is the engine rather than transmission.

It also completely disappears as soon as clutch is depressed.

I think it is possibly a fuel supply problem.

Hopefully I can give it a run at the weekend and then talk it through with our mechanic again. Or may be head for a diesel specialist as mentioned.

History

The problem started off last summer when we were driving in the Alps on some steep hills, a minor vibration which would disappear when you got more speed up or the road flattened out. Not conscious of the problem for rest of holiday but then it came back on the long motorway drive back home, and was quite severe.

Took it to our mechanic a couple of days later but absolutely no sign of a problem, so we forgot about it.

My wife took it loaded on a long journey and the problem came back in a severe way, so she called our roadside recovery. They thought it was the dual mass flywheel, but our mechanic said that this would not be an intermittent fault. Our mechanic replaced a worn drive shaft and roll bars, and had no more problems for months, but then again did not do many long journeys or fully loaded trips.

Edited by andy-seat on 07/02/2011 at 14:05

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

I have exactly the same problem on my 56 plate Seat Alhambra. Was told by the garage that several things are packing up but the one that seems to be causing this problem is the drive shaft, or shafts as there are two? There is excessive play on them, apparently. I really notice it on motorway hills: the whole car slows and begins juddering, shaking the wheel.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - galileo

I have exactly the same problem on my 56 plate Seat Alhambra. Was told by the garage that several things are packing up but the one that seems to be causing this problem is the drive shaft, or shafts as there are two? There is excessive play on them, apparently. I really notice it on motorway hills: the whole car slows and begins juddering, shaking the wheel.

Does the juddering lessen if you change down a gear?

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

If anything it's the other way round. The juddering is most noticeable on uphill stretches, especially with a load and it's REALLY shaking the front of the car and the steering wheel: like rocking it.

I think how I'd explain the gear thing is that it's worse if there's more torque. If I change up and at the same time drop the speed the juddering lessens.

Drive shaft?!

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

Basically just to emphasise that: I think it's torque. The more torque the more the shuddering on the front wheels and steering wheel

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - bathtub tom

What gear are you in and at what speed? Does the problem disappear if you go down two gears at the same speed?

Engine mounts?

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

So typical example would be on the A30 two days ago. Pottering along at 70mph in 5th when the road began a long rise towards Dartmoor. Within a few seconds the juddering began. Both wheels and steering wheel, really shaking. I slowed down to 60mpn, maybe even 55mph and that just about stops the worst of the shaking. The moment I get over the hill and am on the flat or downhill the juddering stops.

6th gear generally seems to make it worse unless I'm going downhill, whereas changing up to 4th, although it increases the revs, seems to make it slightly less juddery.

I have a number of advisories from a garage trip a month ago after I had the the N/S/F anti roll bar from link replaced. As well as the above issue I also have a knocking noise which is particularly noticeable when going over bumps.

Both front suspension top mounts worn
Both front suspension arm rear bushes perishing and starting to split
Both front ball joint dust covers perishing
N/S/F anti roll bar drop link has excessive play
Both drive shafts joints worn
N/S/F shock absorber has rising of oil

As the guy said, if I'm not careful I'll end up spending a fortune on the thing. But fixing the juddering would be good, if I knew what was causing it.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

Oh and it also judders if I pull away from the lights too hard

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - galileo

Thu 15 Apr 2021 20:35

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

So typical example would be on the A30 two days ago. Pottering along at 70mph in 5th when the road began a long rise towards Dartmoor. Within a few seconds the juddering began. Both wheels and steering wheel, really shaking. I slowed down to 60mpn, maybe even 55mph and that just about stops the worst of the shaking. The moment I get over the hill and am on the flat or downhill the juddering stops.

6th gear generally seems to make it worse unless I'm going downhill, whereas changing up to 4th, although it increases the revs, seems to make it slightly less juddery.

Changing from 6th to 4th is changing down, not up. I asked earlier if changing down helped, as I suspect if the problem mainly occurs when reaching an uphill stretch the higher gears need you to press the accelerator harder to try and maintain speed.

In the olden days before electronic engine management, flooring the pedal when reaching a hill without changing to a lower gear would result in an unpleasant knocking (known as 'pinking') due to pre-ignition and noticeable juddering. Modern ECU's retard the timing but may not fully correct for the mismatch between speed, gradient and gear ratios.

The lower gears are there to assist progress up gradients, turbo diesels give the impression that gear changing is less necessary than in n/a petrol cars, but there are limits to their ability.

I suggest you consult your VW dealer describing the problem for their chief technicians opinion as to whether drive shafts are in fact the cause.

.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

Thanks for this.

Yeah he said the juddering was caused by the drive shafts going. At least, he said that he thinks that's the cause of the juddering when pulling away from the lights. It's difficult to believe that juddering is any different from the juddering going uphill: both feel the same. In other words, whenever most torque is on the vehicle it judders.

I doubt it's anything to do with ignition timing. It wasn't happening in the first 6 months I had it and nothing has been altered on the ECU's.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - galileo

Thanks for this.

Yeah he said the juddering was caused by the drive shafts going. At least, he said that he thinks that's the cause of the juddering when pulling away from the lights. It's difficult to believe that juddering is any different from the juddering going uphill: both feel the same. In other words, whenever most torque is on the vehicle it judders.

I doubt it's anything to do with ignition timing. It wasn't happening in the first 6 months I had it and nothing has been altered on the ECU's.

How many miles has your Alhambra done in total? Driveshafts do wear and if it has over 100,000 on the clock they may well need replacing. Did you buy this new or used, if used a previous owner may have given them a hard life, though unlikely to have gone drag racing in an Alhambra ;-)

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo

Hi, 150,000 miles and it had two previous owners before I bought it six months ago. It has a towbar fitted which now makes me wonder if it has been put under a fair bit of strain ...

Thanks again for your help.

p.s. the biggest problem I've got really is knowing whether it's worth spending money on.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - galileo

Hi, 150,000 miles and it had two previous owners before I bought it six months ago. It has a towbar fitted which now makes me wonder if it has been put under a fair bit of strain ...

Thanks again for your help.

p.s. the biggest problem I've got really is knowing whether it's worth spending money on.

Its previous usage and mileage could well explain driveshaft issues.

If it is OK in all other respects, a pair of driveshafts should not be too expensive if you find a reliable independent to do the job. Have a look on the 'Good Garage Guide' on this site. for one near you.

Consider too how much it would cost to replace it, check on WBAC what they value yours at and assume you might get that much as part-ex.

Also, any replacement might have problems, unless new/nearly new/ in manufacturers warranty.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - RichHo
Well I’ve just driven in to Exeter on the A30. Beautiful morning little traffic no pax or load on board. I cruised at 85-90mph whole way. No juddering really but I did drive in 5th rather than 6th most of the time.

Weird ‘eh? I have wondered if it’s worse with a pax on board. Also it’s downhill from Okehampton to Exeter :)

Edited by RichHo on 17/04/2021 at 08:02

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - Andrew-T
Well I’ve just driven in to Exeter on the A30. Beautiful morning little traffic no pax or load on board. I cruised at 85-90mph whole way.

Lucky you weren't pulled in then :-)

But 150K miles ? I would guess there's wear somewhere, and driveshafts may be only one possibility. You clearly like the car, so spend to keep it the way you like it, if it's reliable in other respects.

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - Bolt
Well I’ve just driven in to Exeter on the A30. Beautiful morning little traffic no pax or load on board. I cruised at 85-90mph whole way.

Lucky you weren't pulled in then :-)

But 150K miles ? I would guess there's wear somewhere, and driveshafts may be only one possibility. You clearly like the car, so spend to keep it the way you like it, if it's reliable in other respects.

Sounds to me like its labouring, keeping it in the same gear going uphill or car loaded, the engine wear will cause it to labour as a lot do, you just have to drive using the gears more to prevent labouring of the engine. really depends how much it has been laboured during previous ownership

Seat ~ALhambra - Strange judder / shudder accelerating - galileo
Well I’ve just driven in to Exeter on the A30. Beautiful morning little traffic no pax or load on board. I cruised at 85-90mph whole way.

Lucky you weren't pulled in then :-)

But 150K miles ? I would guess there's wear somewhere, and driveshafts may be only one possibility. You clearly like the car, so spend to keep it the way you like it, if it's reliable in other respects.

Sounds to me like its labouring, keeping it in the same gear going uphill or car loaded, the engine wear will cause it to labour as a lot do, you just have to drive using the gears more to prevent labouring of the engine. really depends how much it has been laboured during previous ownership

Exactly my thoughts. Mechanical sympathy seems to be less common these days than when I were a lad :-)

 

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