Refuse to drive it until you see the certificate. In my experience it only takes a few hours to appear on the MID if that, in that I think mine took 30 minutes. However it can take a few days.
The van probably is insured but I would demand to see the certificate first, it is your licence and that will take a hit of 6 points if its not insured.
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Rattle has a good point, its your licence if there is a problem, and there are plenty of ANPR cameras about.
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It is possibly suspicious now, but in the past I have asked for a copy of the insurance certificate as I'd been given a producer by plod. That gets one quickly enough.
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In my experience it only takes a few hours to appear on the MID
It may take up to 48 hours if car is insured by a new insurer. At least for Aviva, that's the case!
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Ok i mentioned this before , a well know UK company offering "multi bike policies" had a problem , there system would not allow them to enter the second or third bike listed on MID , although it was on your cirtificate , i chased them for 12 mths , eventually reporting them.
after 12 mths i changed companies
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With large companies, with thousands of cars on a block policy, it is the company fleet mgt that enter reg numbers on the database NOT the Ins Co.
Maybe you should chase the Fleet Manager rather than an Ins Co.
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MID is not very reliable in my experience
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but yet outside of working hours , this is the database that the police use?
if a persons car is taken from them , after obtaining insurance (say for 7 working days?) and they have to pay a recovery charge/expences , then the MID should recompence them.
after all the police are going on the "most accurate" info???
when the situation (above) happened with my m/bike , i could not use the bike at night/weekends , as the police would not have been able to get a verbal record of my policy ,,,and yes i did carry the cover note around , and yes i was stopped during daylight hrs
make the MID/insurance companies responsable for there actions ,,,or lack of?
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MID is nothing but a database whose content is as good as the data is fed by different suppliers (insurers in this case).
If insurers can't feed data in time, how come MID become responsible for the content?
It's down to those who use and interpret the data in wrong way.
An entry in MID does not mean car is insured because
* The new owner just bought it uninsured - yet it shows up as insured for some time till old owners insurer updates it
* The car is insured, but driver was not (to drive the car) - MID won't flag this.
The worst tradedy is when innocent motorists are harassed by police based on incorrect MID info.
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The worst tradedy is when innocent motorists are harassed by police based on incorrect >> MID info.
I know someone who has fought for coming on 6 months now and has eventually been promised a refund of the recovery and storage fee - along with a claim for lost wages (two people for a day) and out of pocket expenses (2 x 160 mile round trips). No sign of an apology though - the fight continues after the cheque has been cashed.
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I know someone who has fought for coming on 6 months now and has eventually been promised a refund of the recovery and storage fee - along with a claim for lost wages (two people for a day) and out of pocket expenses (2 x 160 mile round trips).
This is very good indeed. I had thought that no money was recoverable.
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In the case of the OP - Diamond, he does have a statutory defence in law to 'No Insurance'.
Sec !43(3) RTA 1988:
.....................
(a) that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession under a contract of hiring or of loan,
(b) that he was using the vehicle in the course of his employment, and
(c) that he neither knew nor had reason to believe that there was not in force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance or security as is mentioned in subsection (1) above.
Edited by Fullchat on 01/02/2010 at 19:17
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When my own car was being repaired after an accident a couple of years ago, by the insurance company's approved repairer, the bodyshop gave me a courtesy car for a couple of weeks. Out of interest I put the registration number into the askmid.com website and was most surprised to find the car was shown as being uninsured!
I immediately telephoned my insurance company but they weren't particularly concerned. I was covered by the insurance on my own car to drive the courtesy car but was very surprised to discover that it wasn't insured in it's own right. When I asked what would happen if I got stopped by the police because the car was showing up on their ANPR as being uninsured they told me that, as a courtesy car, it would be signwritten and the police would understand. However, it wasn't signwritten as the insurance company thought, it just looked like any other Toyota Aygo.
They did tell me that there was "something extra about the MID information" which would be available to the police but wasn't available to me, but they wouldn't tell me what this "something extra" was. I was just advised to carry my insurance certificate with me at all times I had the courtesy car, which I did. I said that I would sooner not get stopped by the police, given the choice, and asked if they could alter the MID entry, but they said "No"!
To my knowledge that car went through at least two ANPR checks on the A13 but I didn't get stopped. I fully expected to, thought!
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The statutory defence maybe good for avoiding prosecution, but to whom would liability attach in the event of a claim for damages? Presumably to the driver ( if he was responsible for the event), large claim, employer goes bust, no hope of claiming from them. Employee then bankrupted - loose home etc?
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There are thousands of group policy and traders policy vehicles not on the MID database.
It is down to anyone holding these policies to advise the insurance company as and when they trade vehicles, but no one has ever been prosecuted for failing to do so, so why bother?
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Thanks for all the replies, I phoned head office this afternoon, and spoke to the same lady as Friday, she once again said that the van was insured, and once again I requested a fax of proof of this. The van is leased through Lombard I will give them a call tomorrow.
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Thanks Fullchat for that section 143, it's reassuring at the moment.
www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/ukpga_19880052_en_12...3
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I would propose a formal letter to your company.
"Dear Sirs
Further to our recent discussions regarding insurance for the van I am driving I still await satisfactory proof that the vehicle is insured.
To this end, I expect to see a copy of a current insurance schedule or certificate of insurance bearing the vehicle's details plus the name of the insurer. A verbal confirmation is not sufficient.
Whilst this cannot be provided then I owe a duty to inform you that I will not drive the vehicle concerned. This is to protect everyone's interests and stay within the law and not run the risk of prosecution. I will however be happy to undertake reasonable work for the company that does not involve driving the vehicle
I hope that the company can provide a speedy resolution to this matter by presenting the appropriate paperwork for my inspection.
Yours faithfully
Diamond"
The fact is that it is YOUR license that is at stake here. The company could also be procecuted if there is no insurance. Why should you take the risk with your livelihood when some idiot in an office is not doing their job.
The company would have a hard job disciplining you or docking your pay for refusing to work - the letter indicates your willingness to be flexable with the work that you do whilst this issue is resolved.
Stick to your guns, and if the van is insured, you will see a copy of the policy within hours!
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It can take weeks for a car to appear on the database - if at all! There's no mandatory minimum time the insurance companies have to register a policy - only toothless recommendations.
NOT true any more. There is criteria in force that has to be strictly adhered to. I cannot remember the exact details, but could find out. A friend is a large motor broker and he says that nearly all brokers now from the smallest upwards are having to employ at least one member of staff purely to keep their clients details on the database. Apparently the fines for not doing so are draconian.
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For private cars Insurers must add details to database within 7 days of policy inception.
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is this law , or a recommendation? what happens to them if the don,t do it?
has anyone got any teeth?
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is this law or a recommendation? what happens to them if the don t do it? has anyone got any teeth?
Not for many more years!
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then untill this happens we are going to have the problems listed above ,
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Guess what - good news!!! Just checked the askmid website this very minute and the van is on there now!! Looks like head office were telling the truth after all - or realised it wasn't insured and got their backside into gear at last!
Thanks again for all the advice and a bit more for the knowledge bank!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/02/2010 at 00:30
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