Long discussion on BBC1 Breakfast this morning concerning alleged breaches of the rights of disabled people parking at supermarkets, in that they are being discriminated against by not being given extra time to do their shopping, ovr and above the 2 hours given to the n0n-disabled.
Bearing in mind that most supermarkets have contracted out their parking operations to "Private Companies" surely all tickets issed by these firms are unenforceable, to drivers disabled or not, as described in the full explanation in the "Topics" at the top of the Discussion Forum. This aspect/possibility was not mentioned by any of the people involved in the discussion on TV.
Any thoughts?
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 30/01/2010 at 09:36
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before going on about the rights and wrongs just remember
a: all tickets given on private car parks , are not fines , they are requests for money
b: road markings (ie disabled/mother child) are unenforcable , you can paint whatever you want on the ground , it means nothing
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AS I was just thinking the exact same thing whilst watching. Would it not have been so much more informative if they had told the viewers "by the way, you don't need to pay".
Or in TV vagueness terms "there is some dubiety over the legality of these notices"!
But, as a slight topic deviation, it also highlighted for me the merits of internet shopping, get someone else to do it for you and deliver it into your kitchen!
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They should park at my local Sainsbury's instead.
Although there are lot of warning signs and promises of enforcement, they very generously allow anybody to park in the disabled bays and the parent and child bays, for as long as they like.
It is heartwarming to see a bunch of teenagers roll up in a Golf, park it in the disabled bays and then swagger into the store, or to see folk of all ages swing their cars into the parent and child bays without a child (or even an empty car seat in sight).
No discrimination here! If you have a car you can blooming well park where you like!
Edited by SteelSpark on 30/01/2010 at 10:34
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Some car-parks are administered by local council so take care - hospitals in my area are now patrolled by Council staff and they have legally based enforcement powers.
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PU is spot on and it's not just hospitals, Morrisons particularly have agreements where the LA enforce their car parks.
But on the other hand there is a well established open, fair and impartial appeal route for LA Penalties.
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Bearing in mind that most supermarkets have contracted out their parking >>operations to "Private Companies" surely all tickets issed by these firms are >>unenforceable to drivers disabled or not as described in the full explanation in >>the "Topics" at the top of the Discussion Forum.
Lad at work copped one from a motorway service station. I advised him, as per the advice of this site..and helped him draft a letter. He still got more correspondence threatening action..so took advice from solicitors via a Legal Protection scheme we all pay into..they said pay it...so he did.
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My local ASDA displays a notice in each disabled bay indicating non-badge holders will be subject to a ' penalty '
That's contrary to the Administration of Justice Act , IIRC.
They can only threaten a charge or fee, not a penalty or fine.
I'll have to tell the manager...when I tell him about his '10 items or LESS ' sign !
Ted
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..they said pay it...so he did.
they were wrong
as stated before (a thousand times) ITS AN INVOICE
if I send him an invoice , will he pay me?
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WestPig...I'm assuming that was through the Fed. I learnt to my cost that the 'legal eagles' employed by the fed are the most useless, incompetent bunch of feckless idiots it's ever been my misfortune to meet. (Not a criminal case I might add!)
As already stated, just chuck it in the bin.
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I tried really hard to be charitable as well!
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speak your mind , will you instead of sitting on the gate?
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No these 'fines' are not legally enforceable and ultimately they will go away but they will hassle you mercilessly until they realize you really aren't going to pay including thugs banging on your door at all hours.
Plod as usual not interested.
A lot of people jut pay up for a quiet life. I am not one of them and have chased one debt collector (seeking a debt from a previous owner of my house) up the street. But some particularly the elderly simply can not cope with the harassment.
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2 hours is plenty of time, disabled or not. There is no reason why a disabled bay should not have the same 2 hours limit as any other space.
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These parking "tickets" are issued as a result of DVLA telling the parking companies who the registered keeper of the car is. However, the registered keeper was not necessarily the person who parked the car. Unless the car park is a local authority site you are under no obligation to inform the private parking company who was actually driving the car. The parking company must prove that the registered keeper was actually the person who committed the "offence" so no summons will be issued. Many threatening letters will arrive but no action taken.
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2 hours is plenty of time disabled or not. There is no reason why a disabled bay should not have the same 2 hours limit as any other space.
Can't say I agree with that. A decent sized shop can easily take me an hour (I admit that I might not be the most organised shopper). Heaven only knows how long it would take me if I was having to negotiate the store in a wheelcahir.
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Agreed SS, pushing SWMBO round one with the trolley attached to the front is absolute hell, and takes for ages... So I tend to do the shopping on my own or she uses the internet now...
As a blue badge enables people to park for 3 hours, I can't see why the supermarkets can't be the same in their spaces...
Edited by b308 on 30/01/2010 at 14:49
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I can only imagine supermakets in the AE area are still like Arkwrights shop.
I could easily spend two hours in our local supermarket. Not that I'd want to, but if they provide so many services on one site for convenience why try and penalise shoppers who want to spend time (and money) there?
I fancy something to eat before shopping, they have thoughtfully provided a cafe.
I want to print some photos from holiday using a self service kiosk
I fancy a new camera, but not sure what to buy so take advice.
I then go downstairs for some new shirts and a pair of shoes.
I need a new TV and DVD player
Latest CD is out, I'll have one of them and a computer game
I need some new bedding
I have a prescription to drop off. It won't be ready for 30 minutes
I need some passport photos
On the way out I decide to go and book a holiday.
Go back for prescription
Then remember I have a reminder for an eyetest - call into opticians and they can do it now so I wait as I have half an hour before my opticians appointment.
Come out of opticians , go back to car after three hours and completely forget that I went for some shopping.
Edited by daveyjp on 30/01/2010 at 20:59
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''PU is spot on and it's not just hospitals, Morrisons particularly have agreements where the LA enforce their car parks.''
Bromptonaut - whilst Morrisons may have an agreement with the LA to enforce the 'rules', unless the land is LA owned how can they use their powers of enforcement?
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Free supermarkets parking is regularly abused by significant number of people both able bodied and disabled. They use the free parking whilst they shop elsewhere or even leave the car there all day whilst they are at work. Supermarkets naturally want the maximum throughput through their stores and it is not unreasonable to set a parking time limit.
Most people can complete their shopping in two hours. If you are going to take more than two hour tell the service desk. I have done this when shopping in our local Sainsburys with a disabled friend - no problem.
It seems to me that a lot of people want to create issues when there all that is needed is a little common sense.
Edited by CGNorwich on 30/01/2010 at 21:41
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how can they use their powers of enforcement?
It can be done via the dreaded "P" word.
Edited by Pugugly on 30/01/2010 at 22:02
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Don't forget that AE is strictly Lidl only. Two hours in there is on the tariff for some minor custodial offences.
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There was a big fuss about our local retail park having a private company booking people - with the typical wailing of the `wronged` motorist, in the local rag.
Park down there for a while though and a different story emerges. Motorists taking places in congested supermarket (and other outlets - near city centre) and then slipping through a gap in the hedge - to walk the 300 yards into the City centre - avoiding parking charges.
You see them look over their shoulder - with that supercilious expression of having got something for free.
It`s not the private parking companies fault then, or the shops in the retail park for employing them.
No, it`s selfish motorists - who would fill the retail park solid - if they had a chance.
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Near me there's a retail park just a few hundred yards away from a cinema complex. The retail park use a private parking enforcement company which uses ANPR.
Now the cinema complex car park gets very full of an night so some people park in the retail park (which is mostly empty as only a McDonalds and a Pizza Hut are open past 8pm)
So a lot of those people who park in an empty car park when most of the shops are closed find they've got a 'parking charge notice' on their doormat a few days later.
It's not parking 'enforcement' - it's demanding money with menaces.
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