Does BMW have a relibaility/durability/ problem. First it was failed turbos, then swirl flaps in the inlet manifold, what is the point of paying premium money and not getting premium quality, thier auto gear box's if not serviced properly will also fail if the the so called sealed for life auto box fluid is not changed. Not good in my opinion, Korean manufactureres provide 5 and know 7 year powertrain warranty's.
I think this whole sealed for life extended interval fluid change is nonsense.
I would be grateful for some comments and thoughts.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/01/2010 at 13:46
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I'm a partner in a independent VAG and BMW repair shop (we do all brands, but advertise a specialising in VAG and BMW, and BMW Mini). In my experience of dealing with numerous BMW's (usually 3+ years old) they are no more or less reliale than VAG cars. I dont believe in sealed for life or longlife servicing. Yes, BMW have had problems with their turbos and autoboxes, but these are not made by BMW, they are bought in from other suppliers (e.g. Garrett, GM-Aisin Warner and ZF).
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Seven year warranties already being discussed here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=81...1
Seems to be more marketing than anything else.
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"Sealed for life", "long life servicing" etc etc are simply tools designed to flog more cars to more fleets by reducing TCO and increasing convenience for the user.
The car will last comfortably through its warranty period, and see out the manufacturer's period of interest without any major issues. It will be sold on. The manufacturer's only interest is that they flog another one to replace it. In their eyes, once this has happened, the original car has done its job, and is not their concern any more.
The manufacturer doesn't care what happens when Joe Bloggs buys that original car with 90,000 miles on from an auction or backstreet dealer. The Joe Bloggs's of this world who buy 3yr old/ 90,000 mile cars don't earn them a bean, apart from maybe buying the odd spare part.
Mr. Fleet Manager on the other hand is going to earn them a lot of money and if they can knock a grand off the service bill of each of his cars without affecting reliability during his tenure, he's going to listen.
Simple business and bad news for private buyers later on.
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Thats interesting if the components are bought in, I wonder if differenct manufactureres have different servicing requirements on the same components. How many miles can modern cars VW's mercs BMW's rack up befre they conk out. Here in the UAE if looked after Toyota Camrys run by cab co's, not thrashed (speed limited) but run 24 hrs and its a very hot climate (Dubai) easily do between 300-500,000 km's - easily. same engine and gearbox.
My original point was given that you pay top price you should expect better quality, thier is no point in increased complexity if its not reliable or not proven. The Koreans are coming in fast and quick just look at thier products compared to 10years back.
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The only two manufacturers which come to mind as making their own auto gearboxes are Mercedes and GM. Everyone else buys them in pretty much off the shelf. BMW use ZF and GM gearboxes (often ZF in petrols and GM in diesels) so you'll find the same basic gearboxes in BMW's as you'll find in lots of cars.
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How many miles can modern cars VW's mercs BMW's rack up befre they conk out. Here in the UAE if looked after Toyota Camrys run by cab co's not thrashed (speed limited) but run 24 hrs and its a very hot climate (Dubai) easily do between 300-500 000 km's - easily. same engine and gearbox.
So should all modern cars, given that easy regime.
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Toyota are one of the few that stick to non long life servicing. I think the current Avensis has service intervals at 9000 miles. Perhaps this is why they are so reliable. My partners Audi TDi on the other hand can go for 18000 without an oil change.
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Toyota schedules require gearbox oil changing around 48k miles or so. Mercedes had sealed for life gearboxes in the late 1990s/2000s. Life was around 100k miles!
I have always changed any car's gearbox oil around 40k miles... seems obvious when you drain one ... and the gear meshing must screw up the long chain oil molecules..
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ZF have a place in Rugby, Warwickshire.
You can send in your beemer (beemer's a bike, it's bimmer for car, right? Sounds naff tho!) for a service @ around £300.
You have to leave the car overnight, but the service goes a little further than just oil + filter change (magnets, some marble component, new seals, couple of other things).
Fair enough price to have the manufacturer recon the gearbox, IMO anyways...
On their advice it's generally not worth a full strip down (although they offer this too for ~£650) with replacement of cogs and wheels as needed etc. as they say you'd know if there's a problem needing this level of work, and its apparently rare.
They don't buy into the "lifetime oil" thing either, even though the gearbox *never* appears on BMWs maintainance schedule in the UK at all AFAIK.
On a similar note, from experience, brake calipers are non-serviceable items according to BMW, but you can go direct to Brembo italy and buy a caliper overhaul kit (new seals & pistons) for much less than the attempt to overcome the swearfilter edited will do an exchange for a recon caliper.
Edited by Pugugly on 06/01/2010 at 11:49
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ZF have a place in Rugby Warwickshire.
Do you have any more details on this, as there are many BMW forums that would take an interest!
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Yeah i got it through a BMW forum, had a look in my bookmarks but i can't find it right now.
Either way, here's the ZF place, you can call them up to arrange --> tinyurl.com/yerbjka
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thanks feller, I'll pass the message on - unfortunately I've just realised that my 530i petrol auto uses a different gearbox, so may be a different manufacturer? thanks again
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My B7 170PD Audi used to request servicing at 18K miles, by that time the oil looked truly horrible although it guzzled enough to mean that it had effectively been changed in the interim...
My '09 330d wants its first oil change at 23K miles and it has used virtually no oil so far in 15K miles, it's a company car so that's when it'll get it, if it were mine it would not be on a variable servicing regime, as I'm unlikely (although tempted) to buy it at the end of the lease it will (one day) be someone else's problem.
However, as I've commented before, unless (or until) variably serviced cars suffer poorer residuals (which is unlikely) then leasing companies will continue to utilise them. Perhaps someone should start a campaign, viral internet stuff ?
Edited by idle_chatterer on 06/01/2010 at 10:53
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I always used to change my oil at 8-10,000 miles in my various diesels, and although i don't like it the Mercedes E280cdi i've now got says to do it every15,000 which i guess i'll have to stick with
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