Hello Everybody,
Last week I took the plunge and had Vredestein Wintrac Extreme fitted (actually just the 2 front driven wheels) on my Mondeo Estate - I live on the hills above Keighley, West Yorkshire (260 m altitude) and for the past couple of years have been fed up with being unable to get off my estate and onto the main road.
The Mondeo was absolutely pants in anything from a few flakes of snow (205/50 R17 tyres) - I live at the bottom of a 40 m long incline I just couldnt get up it !
From reading up on Winter tyres (or more relevent Cold Weather tyres) I decided that as they are cost neutral in the long term I would have them fitted.
Last night I had to collect my daughter from work at 9 pm ( an isolated country pub) - the Mondeo was totally transformed and I could almost drive as though there was no snow.
The few other cars I saw were unable to get up any of the hills and I saw 2 cars which had slid into each other (going downhill).
I will definately get 2 winter tyres on the back - coming down the hills I could feel the grip on the rears was not there at all.
However, all in all, the 2 tyres on the front were incredible and I can recommend them to anyone who is concerned about their safety in winter.
I would like to point out that the grip from the tyres in cold weather is astonishing - you can really notice the difference and I feel so much safer.
Once we get ice and snow thrown in, then they really are a no brainer !
Hope this is helpful !
Matt
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I have tried winter tyres, and you are rigt, they are great. I think the problem we have is that UK weather is so changeable, so you can have a cold snap, put the winter tyres on, then the next week it warms up to 15 degrees or something crazy and winter tyres are no good and wear very quickly, so you have to swap them off again.
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Am not sure how often it gets to +15 Deg C in West Yorkshire in Dec, Jan & Febuary !!!
From what I have read - the braking performance of Winter Tyres (versus conventional tyres) comes into its own at temperatures of +7 deg C and below.
My perception is that that for 95 % of the time in Dec, Jan & Feb here in Yorkshire - it doesn't get above 7 deg C.
I am really perplexed why more people dont go for them - you dont need additional wheels - my tyre supplier will annually swop them back and forth onto my existing wheels for a couple of quid.
Matt
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Am not sure how often it gets to +15 Deg C in West Yorkshire in Dec Jan & Febuary !!!
Yes, I was exaggerating a bit, but in lots of parts of UK the temperature does go up and down a lot. Its not like central europe where is gets cold and stays cold for several months on end. Winter tyres dont like a lot of use at temp above 7 degree.
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In central europe the temperature can fluctuate way more than in the UK.
The example i know of is Zamosc, Poland (google it) which in the past 3 weeks has had temperatures from -22 to +14. In the space of 36 hours it went from -22 to +10.
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my tyre supplier will annually swop them back and forth onto my existing wheels for a couple of quid.
Is it safe to just keep whichever tyres are not being used in the garage for a few months?
Is there anything to consider which needs doing when storing part used tyres and refitting them?
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Yes, the grip they provide is amazing, isn't it?
A couple of anecdotes:
1. A while back being stuck on a snow covered hill behind an E-class that was going nowhere, wheels spinning away. In the same car but with winter tyres and from a standing start on the hill we were able to drive around him and up the hill. I still wonder what he was saying to himself as he saw us drive past!
2. In the alps a few years ago, in-laws Subaru Forester had difficulty getting grip in the snow (on standard tyres) than we did in rwd with winter tyres.
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Hi boxsterboy
I had a discussion this morning with my neighbour who is a 4x4 nut (he has a Land Rover 90) regarding winter tyres.
He just could not accept my statement that 4 wheel drive offers no benefit whatsoever when going downhill in ice and snow (low ratio box aside) - he believes it is the lack of driver skill that causes issues with 4x4 cars in snow and ice !
I tried to point out the physics to him but the blinkers were not coming off - going downhill in any vehicle (including 4x4's) - the only thing that will stop you sliding is the adhesion of the tyres to the road surface - having each wheel being driven does not help at all.
Last year this same guy told me that when he went out in his Landy in the snow (to resue damsels in distress !) - he ended up sideways on one of the downhill roads near here. (This proves my point - but I ommitted to point this out to him).
Matt
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We get to drive all sorts of cars and my experience of big 4x4 on icy roads is that they are not that good. They have a high centre of gravity so you end up with a right handful if they start to slide the wrong way. Also RWD, especially some of the BMW stuff with very wide low-profiles, are absolute nightmare.
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Hi boxsterboy
I tried to point out the physics to him but the blinkers were not coming off - going downhill in any vehicle (including 4x4's) - the only thing that will stop you sliding is the adhesion of the tyres to the road surface - having each wheel being driven does not help at all. Matt
In the "old days" I guess it was true to a point, before cars had ABS/ASC and were generally RWD, going downhill in your RWD car it was easy to lock the front wheels and lose all control. In the same circumstances a 4WD (indeed a FWD) car will be easier to control as the driven front wheels are less likely to lock maintaining steering control. On winter tyres ground clearance issues will stop you before 2 or 4 wheel drive becomes an issue!
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... wear very quickly so you have to swap them off again.
Apparently that's a misnoma.
I have a Mercedes and several people on a Mercedes forum I visit use winter tyres all year round. One lives in the same neck of the woods as the OP and gets 40K miles from a set on his Merc, which is very high for any type of tyre on a Merc, 25K from rear's is normally very good going.
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Hmm, maybe Ive got it wrong then. But when you look at a winter tyre at normal temps the rubber does look very soft? I will make some enquiries with our tyre wholesalers.
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But when you look at a winter tyre at normal temps the rubber does look very soft?
That seems entirely logical but apart from the example I gave I've seen other similar comments.
"Proper" winter tyres start off with 10mm tread depth vs 7-8 on summer tyres so I guess that helps. They do have extra treadwear indicators at 4mm as they cease be legally (where necessary) winter tyres at that point.
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>>I had a discussion this morning with my neighbour who is a 4x4 nut ....He just could not accept my statement . . . the blinkers were not coming off -
There are plenty of them around, Matt. They are adamant that there is no substitute for a 4x4, and will scoff at winter tyres no matter what evidence you put in front of them. Where I live in the Highlands, a lot of people who move in to the area are certain that they need a 4x4, but very, very few would consider putting on winter tyres.
>>"Proper" winter tyres start off with 10mm tread depth vs 7-8 on summer tyres so I guess that helps.
Good point, BP. I find that my winter tyres last me about as long as my summer tyres, and the extra couple of mm tread probably offsets the slightly faster wear rate.
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Just spoken to our tyre wholesaler. They dont sell many winter tyres but reckon that Nokian WR is the winter tyre they get best feedback on and can be left on all year. For most of the others you should take them off above about 10 degrees apparently and some of them contain grit or carbon flakes so the rubber starts to crumble if you use them at warmer termperatures. I cant say we have ever sold many winter tyres (cant think of any in fact) but we are not really known as a tyre outlet and only normally sell a tyre when we find one defective as part of service or MoT.
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For most of the others you should take them off above about 10 degrees apparently and some of them contain grit or carbon flakes so the rubber starts to crumble if you use them at warmer termperatures. >>
Can you find out from your tyre wholesaler "what is the optimum operating temperature range for winter tyres and for summer tyres"?
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Can you find out from your tyre wholesaler "what is the optimum operating temperature range for winter tyres and for summer tyres"?
When we had the rep from Continental come round in October he left some leaflets and I think it was that winter tyres are for use below 7 degrees and summer for above 7 degrees. I think this is also marked on the sidewall of some winter tyres. You can also buy all season tyres, which is what the americans use. They are better in winter than a summer tyre, but worse in summer than a summer tyre (hope that makes sense). But I think for a conclusive answer it would be best to contact a tyre company technical dept because I imagine they differ a bit according to the compounds used. But our wholesaler recommened me the Nokian WR as one you can use in winter but is good at the warmer temps, which is probably what you need in UK. Hes been in the game 20 years so I would take his advice.
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">> ... wear very quickly so you have to swap them off again.
Apparently that's a misnoma."
It is. I kept my winters on for two years up until last Summer. They're fine, they're hanging up in the garage waiting for me to find the time to get them put back on.
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Yes I agree that winter tyres are fantastic in right conditions. Interested to hear about Vredesteins etc, ie as they can be used for longer than "snow tyres" that I had ie with retractable ice studs. I used to have winter tyres with a few ice studs that were fabulous in snow and ice, but needed care on normal roads. In packed snow or ice they would get a normal fwd Escort /Clio just about anywhere ground clearance allowed. However I only did a few hundred miles on them each year and had to throw them when they perished after 20+ years.
I would warn about using winter tyres on the front only as I found the car is too eager to swap ends when braking etc. On a rwd I used to get away with just 2 on back, but not ideal.
In my experience a decently balanced rwd car drives well in snow & ice, especially with snow tyres fitted, but then I am thinking back to Escorts Mk1's & 2's etc with much narrower tyres than today.
I often wonder how heavy 4x4 or chelsea tractors manage in icy conditions - as not only is the centre of gravity so hgh but also they are so much heavier than many cars and so will need a lot of grip just to turn corners or to stop etc. A Panda 4x4 or a Jimny might be ideal?
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I would warn about using winter tyres on the front only as I found the car is too eager to swap ends when braking etc.
That's a very good thought.
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Several posts wondering if heavier 4x4's might be a handful in icy conditions.
Pick up on winter tyres virtually unstoppable, and handles as well as any commercial vehicle of it's size, swmbo wants no other car, even turned down an E500 estate...though could be persuaded into an Arnage;-)
Back to the OP, couldn't agree more about those Vred's Extreme's, got them on pick up.
Used the MB today in severe weather on it's recently fitted Nokian WRG2 winter's, very good totally secure in deep snow and sure footed on packed ice and slush within reason.
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One of our workshop vehicles is a Ford ranger 4x4 pickup. Absolutely lethal thing on ice, handles like a drunk cow, I hate driving it. One of the younger lads put it off the road up a high kerb last winter and it needed a new rack, strut and lower arm, wheel, tyre and wing. Cost about £2500 for that little shunt, they are not cheap things to fix.
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I live near Grenoble. Our Volvo garage told us that if we were just staying in the valley then we needed winter tyres on the driving wheels only, but if we were going up to the ski stations (from about 1300m altitude) then we needed all four. The reason was exactly as you say, the back end (it was a front-drive 850) would be too likely to overtake you if it lost traction.
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>> I would warn about using winter tyres on the front only as I found the >> car is too eager to swap ends when braking etc. That's a very good thought.
Also if the rolling radius of the tyres differ too much you could end up with ABS or ASC faults being triggered as some systems cannot handle this - particularly 1st gen 3 and 4 channel systems.
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Have to agree with you!
Put 185/60/15 Contintental TS800 Wintercontacts on my Fabia VRS to replace the standard 205/45/16 for the winter.
To try and get them to break traction takes a real effort, and living in a small village in the North Yorks moors means they will probably be necessary a few times each winter.
Followed a RAV4 today and it was sliding where I could just drive straight up.
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So, would I be better off with winter tyres on the Jimny for all round (winter) use AND light off roading?
Thoughts. MD
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hi
what would be the best way to go. my auto focus it has 18x225x40 tyres on and for the most of the winter so far have had no problems.
i was wondering what would be the best way to go in getting winter tyres fitted. temp replace the original 18" tyres and fit 18" winter tyres. or go for say 15" wheels with winter tyres fitted and change back over when temp increased/ season change. also would this alter the speedo etc or would the tyre outside diameter be the same.
would i have to advise the ins comp on the change (probably would do anyway, just to be sure)
thanks
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Like focusman I am wondering what the best way to go is. Am considering winter tyres as the mondeo III estate with bridgestone turanzas is pants in the snow/ice, though I'm sure the driver is partly to blame. Autosocks helped loads but something more permanent would be preferable.
Current tyres are 205/55/16. I would aim to put winter tyres on steel rims. Is it better to drop to 15" rims and what width should I go for? Do most tyre places sell steel rims? Nokian and Vredestein seem to get most recommendations.
Helpfully Mrs T's focus has the same tyre size so have the option of running the winter set on either car. Helps justify the outlay. Living in a very hilly area it would be nice to be assured of some reasonable grip, even if buying them results in a decade of mild winters.
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Tyres make such a huge difference, after floods of tears from my girlfriend after a couple of near misses in her MX5 (of course it was my fault for not stopping her buy the car) I fitted a set of Viking winter tyres, it turned what was occasionally a handful in slippy conditions into an almost go anywhere vehicle! Yes the tyre were noisier at speed but she didn't notice! I've been up and down mountains in Switzerland in non-studded winter tyres in normal 2WD cars with no problems. You hardly ever need 4WD, it's the tyres that matter.
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Yeah steel wheels are available at most tyre fitters, and thankfully they're pretty cheap (i paid £24 a corner for 16" which is fairly big by steel rim standards).
I'd drop to 15s for the cost, will be cheaper rims + cheaper tyres as not as low profile (to maintain the circumference of the wheel).
I can recommend the Nokian WR2s as a good compromise for UK weather -- good enough for our current winter conditions, without being an out-and-out snow tyre which wears quickly on tarmac. Have run them well into spring with 0 noticeable side effects (no increased wear, no loss of grip).
When they do let go during hard cornering on snow / slush, like when you're trying to force them, you can feel them snatching grip -- they try really hard to keep clawing back traction.
Also they're pretty user friendly, if you look at the tread there's numbers inscribed into the tread representing the depth of tread left. Instead of fancy codes or random blocks in the tread.
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OK - so winter tyre are the DBs.
On the assumption that not all winter tyres are the same, which are the good makes?
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To answer my own question, I found this (link to tyre reviews web site)
tinyurl.com/y9lwjkx
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I am a great beliver in winter tyres even for 4x4's & I use them on my 4x4's. You can't beat them.
This clip demonstrates the difference & if you don't watch it till the end you will jump to the wrong conclusions.
www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m11b0s0p0
This clip really sums up the difference
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>>> On the assumption that not all winter tyres are the same, which are the good makes?
Tyres are one of those subjects what one person thinks great, another thinks rubbish.
A manufacturers tyre which works well on your car in summer will probably make a tyre you are happy with in winter.
I use Goodyear Eagle F1 in summer and Goodyear Ultragrip 7+ in winter. They work well on my car but may be not so good on another car.
Edited by gmac on 09/01/2010 at 09:38
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On the assumption that not all winter tyres are the same which are the good makes?
You could do worse than have a scroll around tyretest.com
It might be a case of whats left now, Camskills are already showing showing sizes and makes showing no stock till next October.
I keep my eyes open throughout the year before i need tyres etc especially in the 'off' season with a short list, then when a bargain comes up i research carefully and buy then, i bought both sets of winters in late summer.
Edited by gordonbennet on 09/01/2010 at 09:48
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Work colleague described his S Type Jag as unuseable/undriveable in the recent weather; bit the bullet and imported 4 winter tyres and says that, whatever they cost him, they have made the car at least driveable and overall, transformed. I think he may have been looking at £1000 but he is well pleased.
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