Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of God? - gaz4leigh
i am a full time working single mother of one. i was travelling down a motorway last week doing 68 mph (i know this as i was using my cruise control) when i approached a daf artic lorry doing approx 65 mph. i indicated to my right to overtake, then pulled into the right hand lane. on doing this the driver of the daf artic lorry seemed to speed up (we all know they hate being overtaken)during overtaking, the lorry had a blow out on his left hand front side and the tyre went underneath his lorry carriage and smashed straight into the front of my vehicle causing me to break harshly. i then had to carry on driving and speed up to the lorry driver to notify him of the serious damage to my vehicle caused by his tyre as he was unaware of the tyre blow out. when i finally caught his attention we pulled over and my passenger called the police. on the police attending both myself and the lorry driver swapped insurance details and gave negative breath tests and the lorry driver admitted liability to both myself and the police explaining this happens quite regular and i would have a new car in no time. both myself, my passenger and my 8 year old son were severly shaken by this accident however we didnt require an ambulance. i was informed by the lorry driver that i would need to ring both my insurance and his insurance company to sort the claim out. next morning waking very shaken and very stiff, after phoning in sick at work (ive been off for a week now) i rang both insurance companies and they basically said 'what you want us to do'? the lorry drivers insurance company said nothing they can do as it is an 'act of god'?? ive never heard any thing so ridiculous,i was really shocked at thier response, and my own insurance company said it was nothing to do with them as i am only 3rd party fire and theft due to my not being able to afford the £100 per month premium for fully comprehensive. this was when i decided to op for a no win no fee accident claim group. i was offered a hire car for 1 week (still got it til monday) and they would take my wrecked car to thier depo, evaluate the damage, contact the other drivers insurance company and sort it for me......fat chance as they are picking the hire car up off me on monday, and bringing me my wrecked car back......they have said nothing more will be done for me as this is in fact an 'act of god'......so i am in a predicament where i have a written off, undrivable car, lost 2 weeks pay as my doc has signed me off for another week and my employer doesnt pay me for being on the sick, and no way of repairing my vehicle as i'm a single parent with 1 full time income and mortgage to pay. surely there must be blame here??? how can they say 'act of god' when A: he was speeding and B: everywhere i have looked for reasons for blow outs it says poorly maintained vehicle. can anyone give me any advice as i'm stuck and not sure what i can possibly do next?

Edited by Pugugly on 12/11/2009 at 19:48

blow outs??? - Falkirk Bairn
Do you have legal expenses insurance?

Failing that you need to get a lawyer who will take on a case as "no win no fee" - if you win the 3rd party insurer pays your damages and the lawyer's bill.
blow outs??? - daveyjp
It's not an act of god it's an accident and it's the responsibility of the insurance companies to sort this out.

If you have legal cover on your policy it's time to start using it. At least start making a nuisance of yourself with your own insurance company to get onto the other party.
blow outs??? - CGNorwich
Whilst having every sympathy unless you can prove that the driver of the lorry was negligent and that negligence caused the accident you have little chance of recovering your loss. The fact that the lorry had a blow out does not necessarily mean the driver was negligent If the tyre had less than the minimum tread you might well have a case but since the police attended and you do not mention that there was any problem with the tyres I assume this is not the case.

The extra premium Insurers charge for comp cover is to cover such eventualities
blow outs??? - gordonbennet
Usually it's only the tread and odd fragments of sidewall that come off when a truck tyre blows out, it really shouldn't have done so much damage as to write the car off.

This case does highlight the dangers of having 3rd party cover only, and in most cases fully comp is barely any costlier.

I would get shot of the hire car as soon as you can, if there's no valid claim you will end up paying for that too, and i bet it's an expensive hire too...this comes up time and again when these accident help 'handler' bods get involved.
if you have a valid claim then you'll get a basic courtesy car whilst yours is off the road.

If he really was doing 65mph and accelerating, i'm surprised the old bill didn't get involved more.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/11/2009 at 13:56

blow outs??? - George Porge
If you have insurance give all details to them and let them sort it, its what you pay them for.
blow outs??? - Altea Ego
Usually it's only the tread and odd fragments of sidewall that come off when a
truck tyre blows out it really shouldn't have done so much damage as to write
the car off.


I have seen *very* large chunks come off lorry tyres, a complete tread is heavy and flying at 56mph it can cause a fair degree of damage.

Re the OP. Your insurance comany dont care and why should they. You are insured third party only and you did not pay for them to worry about your car. Thats what third party is all about.

Re the lorry. Its not an "act of god" A tyre lorry coming to bits is a defect and a risk If you take them to court they would have to pay out. Catch 22 is you cant afford to take them to court.
blow outs??? - Focus {P}
I have seen *very* large chunks come off lorry tyres a complete tread is heavy
and flying at 56mph it can cause a fair degree of damage.


If HGV is doing 56 then top of tyre is doing 112 - if you're going the other way at 70, that's hitting you at a relative speed of 182...
blow outs??? - George Porge
Re the lorry. Its not an "act of god" A tyre lorry coming to bits
is a defect and a risk If you take them to court they would have
to pay out. Catch 22 is you cant afford to take them to court.


Most lorry tyres throw there treads due to running too low a pressure over heating the tyre to destruction, not a manufacturing defect
blow outs??? - Altea Ego
Most lorries throw treads becuase they use re manufactured tyres. Its a common occurence you cant go 5 miles without seeing huge chunks of tread by the side of the motorway.
blow outs??? - George Porge
Most lorries throw treads becuase they use re manufactured tyres. Its a common occurence you

Most lorry tyres are made new, recut, retread, recut again before being discarded, some of the small retread firms will retread again but the big boys wont.

When I asked a premuim brand retreader why so many crown blocks could be seen at the side of the road his reply was under inflation for the load being carried causing overheating, the guy I was speaking to was the head honcho of the UK, exporting to the USA and not a salesman.

Many large fleets used to hire tyres direct from this company.
blow outs??? - Altea Ego
When I asked a premuim brand retreader why so many crown blocks could be seen at the side of the road his reply was under inflation for the load being carried causing overheating

Yes agreed but its only the retreads that will shed the fulll tread under these circumstances,
blow outs??? - pda
and most reputable firms won't touch them.

Pat
blow outs??? - George Porge
>>>>>>Yes agreed but its only the retreads that will shed the fulll tread under these circumstances>>>>>>>>>>>>

Should read "mainly retreads", not only retreads, anything is possible.

Have you ever seen a tyre being made?



and most reputable firms won't touch them.
Pat


Who, tyre manufacturers or hauliers
blow outs??? - pda
Hauliers Dox.
Most are on a 'contract' now with tyre companies and it would specify new only.
Call outs and time penalties on late deliveries far outweigh the saving.

Pat
blow outs??? - George Porge
Hauliers Dox.
Most are on a 'contract' now with tyre companies and it would specify new only.
Call outs and time penalties on late deliveries far outweigh the saving.
Pat


But that doesn't get retreads off the road, it just guarantees the tyre company a good carcase for retreading and other companies must run nothing but retreads?

Have you ever known a crown block come off a non retreaded tyre?
blow outs??? - L'escargot
shouldn't have done so much damage as to write
the car off.


It's a matter of whether it's economic to repair the vehicle, and therefore it depends on the repair cost relative to the value of the car in the first place. www.carinsuranceonline.org.uk/totallosswriteoff.ht...l
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Focus {P}
how can they say 'act of god' when A: he was speeding


Sorry, can someone clarify - I didn't think HGVs could speed due to the 56mph (plus or minus a bit?) limiter they all must have fitted?
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Alanovich
Dear Insurance Companies,

In support of your "Act of God" claim, please could you provide proof, beyond reasonable doubt, of the following:

1) The existence of God.
2) His/Her/Its direct involvement in puncturing that lorry's tyre.

Thanks and kind regards,
gaz4leigh.


Fat lot of good it'd do though. Grr.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Mick Snutz
The police would not get involved regards speeding unless they'd witnessed it themselves. They couldn't act on the say so of another motorist.
I think the victim has a case for a claim agains the lorry driver or at least the owners of the vehicle. Whilst I agree no driver could pre-empt a blow-out, the fact remains that the car driver is worse off as a result of damage caused by another vehicle and had it not been for that lorry's tyre going pop, she would not have suffered damage.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - OldSock
What about if a driver has a heart attack and causes an accident or damage? Is this an 'act of God'?

Would negligence have to be proved? Smoked too much / didn't get enough exercise etc.....
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - George Porge
Everyones speedo over reads by law, the lorry may not have been speeding.................
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Focus {P}
Everyones speedo over reads by law the lorry may not have been speeding.................


No, but I was wondering whether it was actually capable of speeding.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gordonbennet
The police don't need to witness a truck speeding, the tachograph's or digi card will tell them everything the truck driver concerned has done in the last month, and they can go back a year or more into the driver's records if they so wish...if the limiter has been tampered with it will show quite obviously to an experienced officer or vosa inspector, despite howver careful the driver tries to be to cover his tracks.

Something not right about this episode imo, and i can't quite put me finger on it.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/11/2009 at 14:32

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Old Navy
Something not right about this episode imo and i can't quite put me finger on
it.

>>
My thoughts too. Blow out left front, tyre under truck and driver didn't notice?

Edited by Old Navy on 12/11/2009 at 14:37

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - pda
Exacly my thought Old Navy.
If in fact this was a N/S.Front blow out then there is no way the driver could have driven the vehicle and not noticed, he would in fact have struggled to bring it to a halt safely.

The sentiment that lorry drivers 'don't like being overtaken' on a motorway is a tad odd as well:)

Pat
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Lud
i can't quite put me finger on it.


It does seem strange that a front nearside tyre should blow out and damage a car overtaking on the offside, although it isn't unbelievable. But if the OP's car is 'undriveable' how was she able to overtake and stop the lorry? Without wishing to cast any doubt on her account, I am also surprised that she felt stiff and shaken the next day and was off work for a week. Very sensitive.

An accurate account of the damage to the OP's car would make it easier to understand what is going on.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Lud
Oh, and by the way: the speed of the HGV, and the OP's opinion that it 'speeded up' when she was overtaking it, are utterly irrelevant and simply not worth mentioning.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - FotheringtonThomas
Quite. Also, perhaps the car is undrivable due to damage to the lights, for instance.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - jbif
Something not right about this episode imo, and i can't quite put me finger on it. >>


I can, and could help, but if I do, I shall most likely be accused of frightening away new members. So I won't. Simples.

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gordonbennet
I can and could help


C'mon jbif, you can't tantalise us like that, i'd be intested to know what's wrong with it.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - R75
The police don't need to witness a truck speeding the tachograph's or digi card will
tell them everything the truck driver concerned has done in the last month and they
can go back a year or more into the driver's records if they so wish...if
the limiter has been tampered with it will show quite obviously to an experienced officer
or vosa inspector despite howver careful the driver tries to be to cover his tracks.


Not quite correct, on the digicards they only hold speed data for 24hrs, they hold driving data for normally 30 days, but this depends on on the type of driving, I have read cards that have over 6 months of data on them, they don't automatically overwrite after 30 days!!!

Something not right about this episode imo and i can't quite put me finger on
it.

Fully agree with that.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gordonbennet
Not quite correct on the digicards they only hold speed data for 24hrs they hold
driving data for normally 30 days


Thanks for putting me right i didn't know that, having avoided using the things meself so far, and only going by hearsay from the other lads.
I assumed they would be a better tool than the previous tacho disc, apparently not.
So much for progress.

Further down there's talk of tyre treads travelling at 70+ mph...it doesn't happen in real life like that, usually a flailing tread beats the hell out of the trucks lights and mudwings etc and ends up coming off in smaller chunks.

In the OP's situation the tread (unlikely to be the whole tyre, almost impossible) after coming from under the truck would be travelling at the truck's speed for only a few yards before coming to a halt, unless somehow the complete tread came off and rolled down the road...not something that would happen following blowout, and something i've only seen once or twice in 30 odd years.

As Pat said if it was front tyre blowout at that speed, stopping the truck straight would have been bad enough and would have to be very quickly done...it would have probably been either a second steer or drive axle tyre blown...my bet is on drive axle as they can go down during the course of a shift and overheat without the driver being aware until the dull explosion occurs.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - L'escargot
Everyones speedo over reads by law the lorry may not have been speeding.................


No, it just shouldn't under-read.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - OldSock
"You were travelling at an indicated 68mph, yes?"

"Yes"

"And your speedometer may have been over-reading by 10%, yes?"

"Yes"

"So your true speed could have been 61.2mph, could it not?"

"I suppose so"

"But you were gaining on the lorry, is that not so?"

"Correct"

"So the lorry could have been travelling at 60mph - the legal limit on the motorway"

"Guess so"

"You say he 'seemed to speed up' - so he may not have done, in fact?"

"I suppose not"

"Your witness...."
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - DinUK
Can't the whole affair not be summarised as such.

Driving behind/past a lorry. Something came/fell off the lorry (bits of tyre due to blowout). Result: Car damaged.

Everything else is just irrelevant and clouds the issue. The question is simply who is responsible for the damage. I'd guess the lorry, but that's just a guess..

DinUK
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - pda
In your simplified view obviously he had run over something to cause a blowout so who left on the carriageway and surely that person is to blame................or the wombles for not clearing it up, and so it goes on.
God is much easier to blame.

Pat
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - bathtub tom
Could the lorry have driven over another lorry's 'thrown tread' I wonder? You do see them occasionally, although not as often nowadays.

Do lorries still have remoulds/retreads/re-cuts?
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - TheOilBurner
"gaz4leigh", a few more specific details might help us here, which I'm sure you'll be happy to do, as you're not a troll, are you?

i.e. what specific damage was there to your car that the car is both undriveable and yet you were able to follow and flag down the lorry, what are your injuries that require two weeks off sick but not an ambulance and how is it the tyre hit your car when you were already pulled into the lane on the right but the tyre blew off the left of lorry and came out from the rear?

I'm afraid it doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe you can clarify it so some useful advice can be given?
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - injection doc
Traveling up the M5 a few Sundays ago the o/s middle Tyre of a tri-axle trailer exploded & debris flew everywhere just as I had reached the rear of the lorry, cars went in all directions & rubber & debris flew at my car from all directions but the rubber scuff marks all polished off. The noise & smoke was horrendous. It was enough to shake me up & but I didn't need a week of work. The vehicle in front of me which was along side the rear tyres ended up with some dents in the rear door & very shaken passengers.
It was .ell of a bang!
Not pleasant experience for anyone. glad I wasn't on a bike!
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Old Navy
I try to spend as little time as possible passing trucks and to never drive alongside one. I hang back untill I have a clear run past and am sure the truck does not need my lane for an overtake.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Sofa Spud
The speed limit for LGVs on motorways is 60 mph, which is somewhat academic, since they are required by law tto be fitted with speed limiters set at 56 mph.

If the lorry was doing 65 mph, then that will be recorded on its tachograph, and might indicate that the speed limiter has been tampered with, which is an offence.

If the lorry was really doing 65 mph, that could also have been a minor contributing factor to the blowout, although the tyre must have had an underlying weakness in it.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 12/11/2009 at 17:19

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - pda
Sofaspud, the OP says the Police attended and breathalysed both parties. I'm sure with this level of diligence the Polceman would also have checked the lorry drivers tachograph and speed. It's routine in cases like this one.

So let's not speculate that in some way the lorry driver was to blame for what is something he can do nothing about BUT nevertheless, is reponsible for in law.

A front tyre that was going down slowly maybe due to wear, would have given him some warning via the steering and handling. A blow out occurs ( on the front) without warning and is almost always caused by running over something like a long bolt or piece of metal lying in the carriageway.

There is already something odd about the OP's post, so please let's not castigate the lorry driver just yet:(

Pat
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - FotheringtonThomas
the lorry drivers insurance company said nothing they can do as it is an 'act of god'


I doubt it.

See a solicitor for an initial evaluation, which won't cost very much (explain on the telephone roughly what it's about when you make the appointment so you get someone capable dealing with you, and get a price). Before your appointment, prepare by listing the accurate, relevant, and *concise* facts regarding the actual incident, e.g. "When I overtook a lorry on the motorway it had a blowout, and tyre debris damaged my car. The lorry driver's insurance company are denying liability". Then answer any questions, and take advice.

Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 12/11/2009 at 17:34

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - CGNorwich
"I doubt it."

The problem is proving that the blow out was a result of the negligence of the lorry driver. The only way I can see that he could be liable is if the tyre was poorly maintained, e.g. below minimum tread depth. If that was not the case I cannot see how the driver can be held negligent and he is therefore not liable for the damage caused.

Unfortunately a lot of people believe that there is always someone legally liable form whom damages can be recovered. This is absolutely not the case and emphasises the need for the accidental damage element of comprehensive cover.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - George Porge
Well the ambulance chasers dropped this one like a hot potato, what does that tell you..............
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Altea Ego
There is no such thing as "an act of good" in motoring insurance.

The wind didnt blow it off. It wasnt struck by lightening. A tree didnt fall over and knock it off. The concept simply doesent exist. The lorry company are insured for ALL third party risks. The lorry driver and his company are responsible for ALL part of the lorry and if ANY part of it comes off and causes damage thay are insured. Its not blame its a claim.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - jbif
... what does that tell you.......... >>


I think it tells us to stop posting, and wait and see if gaz4leigh replies to the questions asked here.

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Altea Ego
but the concept is a valid one and worthy of discussion
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - jbif
but the concept is a valid one and worthy of discussion >>


Agreed.

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - perro
Tyre means rock in Phoenician and a rock is a hard place.
Hee Haw, Hee Haw!
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - skittles
there are truck out their without speed limiters, they are these that are registered in places like Ireland, Hungry, Russia

A spee limiter only works if the truck is running on level ground or up hill, on down gradients, its possible a truck can speed up

Tyres should hold at much greater speed then 70 MPH

Most tyres blow because of over heating, either due to wrong tyre pressure, or other mechanical factors such as breaks holding a bit


Without the actual tyre the OP has no chance of proving what happened, whether it was a defect, operators fault or the tyre running over a stone or something that led to damage and resulting in the blow out that damaged the car

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - moonshine
You were overtaking the lorry, so you were alongside on the right hand side. The lorrys left tyre blows out and manages to hit your car? Seems a bit odd.

Two weeks off work with no pay? With a family to support you need to get a grip and get back to work, fast before your boss sacks you. If they dont pay you sick leave then I guess they will be quite happy to fire you as well.

Your car is undriveable? Why? It was driving perfectly fine when you were chasing down the lorry driver.

Your car is written off? I thought you said your insurance was not getting involved? So how can it be written off?

Sorry to sound so harsh, but I'm afraid its a cruel, wicked world.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 13/11/2009 at 14:20

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - moonshine

Just to add something a little more constructive, an understanding of proximate cause may help:

vault2.secured-url.com/iib/encyclopeadia_item.asp?...1
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - oilrag
I wonder how many new forum members just never return after getting a `thrashing` on their first post.
Clearly Gaz4Leigh is in a `first time` situation and seems to be in a wretched position with the car - as well as suffering financially and physically - and who knows if traumatised with the shock?

Surely a little compassion for her is not amiss? - certainly I wish her well and hope that her situation soon improves.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Pugugly
Surely a little compassion for her is not amiss?

Yep.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - moonshine
Surely a little compassion for her is not amiss?


I think Gaz has already had a little compassion. Theres something fishy about it, maybe if Gaz was to return and furnish some more details then more constructive posts will follow.

Despite Gaz's dodgy sounding post, the question about wether the lorry drivers insurer should be liable is a good one. I've been behind a lorry on a motorway that shredded a tyre, luckily for me there was no damage as the tyre ended up in lots of small chunks that just bounced off my widnscreen.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
sory if i have upset anyone, i will clear a few things up, there is nothing dodgey about my situation and i have never had a crash or accident or even been in a car when someone has had one. i have been driving for a year so am new to the roads. i over-exagerrated a little on my car being 'written off' and 'unuasble'. the damage to my car is the front bumper is completely smashed to pieces, my wing is dented and my bonnet is...how can i word it....lifted up? the accident happened at 10.30 at night, and yes, i did see the tyre but it looked like a piece of cardboard or paper floating throught the air. i am off work due to not being able to get back behind the wheel yet!! and i have to drive to work as i work 12 hour shifts and public transport doesnt run ne where near my works. i only wanted some advice not a thrashing from people and sorry if i have offended any one. the police seemed more interested in gettin back in thier car as it was raining.......
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Mick Snutz
you dont need to say sorry but some of the doubting Thomas's on this forum need to!

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
thank you mick.....at least someone isnt going at me :(
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gordonbennet
Rightho, lets get practical.

Your first priority is to get rid of the hire car, and get your car back on the road, and get back to work.

You may need to get some help from friends to find someone who could find another bumper for your car, probably from a breakers and either put it on for you or you must find a local small bodyshop who will do the job for you pronto.

They'll probably be able to knock your wing and bonnet back into safe working shape for minimal cost too.

That's what i'd do in the practical sense IF there's no chance of a claim being honoured, and it seems the accident handler's have taken a step back already so i think you may have to accept this could be the case.
Hopefully some experts will be along to advise a sure way to proceed claim wise.

As soon as you can, get comprehensive cover for your car, if you search around it really shouldn't be any more than 10% more expensive than TPFT.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
yeh hire car goes back monday, ive not even used it!!lol. i'm back at work tuesday and have been informed today that although i dont get comany sick pay i do get ssp?? not sure what that is but spose its something. the hire company are bringing my car back when they take the hire car on monday but yeh i do think i'm fighting a losing battle. just upset as i know parts for my car (alfa romeo 147 t-spark) are very expensive, the only reason i have 2rd party f + th is because the comp cover was £2k as i'm classed as a new driver. thanks for the advise :) just hope this never happens to any one else as i feel robbed..........how can they blame me or god for whats happened??
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gordonbennet
do get ssp?? not sure what that is but spose its something.


Don't get excited it's not much.

Alfa 147... a bit of a high insurance grouped car for a newish driver, as you've found out, but that can't be helped now.

Get someone on the case finding the bumper from a breaker, as for the hire car going back Monday..are you sure they arn't going to try and bill you for the time you've had the thing, maybe get on the blower and double check tomorrow morning if you can't make head nor tail of the gobbldeegook of the pages of small print, you don't need any more costs to bear.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
im not saying the lorry driver is to blame but surely his company are?? what if i was killed in the car, would they still say 'not our problem'. i dont beleive in god!!!
if a tree was struck by lightening and fell on my car then yes, thats an act of god but how is his tyre blowing out and hitting my car an act of god?
i have spent all day researching and found the following info on pistonheads.com
you will often hear of people discussing 'blow outs'. a trye blow-out, to give it a definition, is the sudden and total deflation of a tyre due to the collapse of it's structure. There is a tremendous amount of rubbish talked of when it comes to 'blow-outs' and it is something that is severly misunderstood amongst the motoring population. Blowouts do NOT just happen, they are caused and that cause 99.9% of the time is negligence coupled with lack of awareness........................................
so now where do i stand???
and how can there be something fishy about my claim???? so are you saying i drove into the lorries tyres??? no i am quite happy with life and DO NOT have suicidal tendancies :(
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - skittles
It can be an act of God, for example if the tyre got damaged by hitting a pothole or a brick or something an hour or two before your accident.

As I said without that tyre no one can say whether it was the drivers fault, manufactures fault, operators or the tyre was damaged by accident and is no ones fault

Edited by skittles on 12/11/2009 at 22:12

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Bill Payer
if i was killed in the car would they still say 'not our problem'.


If you'd been killed then there would have been a very thorough investigation by Police Accident Investigators into the lorry operators procedures etc, but they still may well have come out "clean"
i have spent all day researching and found the following info on pistonheads.com


Did you see the quite recent thread on PH where exactly the same happened to someone else, with just the same explanation:
tinyurl.com/yzkk3qs

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Lud
im not saying the lorry driver is to blame but surely his company are??

Not to blame gaz. Liable. There's a difference.

I too wish you well.

But there is really no need to exaggerate. Tell it like it is, as accurately as possible.

Bit of tin bashing, new or preferably secondhand bumper... work at it steadily and you may get the trucker's insurance to pay. They are liable after all.

Forget about your religious beliefs. 'Act of God' is a legal term. Forget about the lorry's speed or alleged acceleration. Nothing to do with anything here. Good luck.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - CGNorwich

The problem you face gas4leigh is in proving negligence by the lorry driver. Obviously a blow out could be the result of his negligence, e.g. worn or under-inflated tyres. Equally it could be the result of a slow puncture picked up an hour or two earlier or even a manufacturing defect in the tyre. Both of the later events would not be negligence on the part of the driver and you would not have a valid claim against him.

Since a blowout does not de facto prove negligence you would have to have to establish this. The only way to do this would be by scientific examination of the remains of the tyre.

Unfortunately without such evidence I suspect any claim will fail. However as has already been suggested it would be worth consulting a solicitor for a professional view.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - skittles
If the tyre had a manufacturing defect you could possibly have a claim against the manufacturer
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Altea Ego
you do NOT have to prove negligence. you dont have to assert blame. A part of the lorry came off and It hit your car. The lorry company ARE liable even if they are not to blame.

If you assert your rights you will get the lorry insurance company to pay, BUT it will take time and perserverance, which doesent help your immediate problem of the brken car.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Altea Ego
A thought

it was the tyre from their lorry wasnt it? not one that was already on the road and the lorry drove over it?

In that case they are not liable, its not their tyre.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
yes it was off the lorry as when we all stopped with the police we looked. it was the 3rd tyre from the front, twin wheeler so that straightens another question as previous when someone mentioned the lorry driver must have known. he didnt know, the first he knew is when we pulled up.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - CGNorwich
"you do NOT have to prove negligence. you dont have to assert blame
The lorry company ARE liable even if they are not to blame. "

Unfortunately that is not the case AE. To be liable for damage or injury a driver may cause it is necessary for the third party to prove negligence. I agree that if a part of a vehicle becomes detached and hits another vehicle, e.g a poorly secured load it will almost certainly in itself be proof of negllgence .. However a tyre blowout is not the same. It can happen without any fault attaching to the driver as in the examples I mentioned.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gordonbennet
OP, one other thing crosses my mind.

When you get your car back...before you drive it anywhere get someone with a bit of nous to jack it up and check the underside especially brake and fuel pipes etc for any damage.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/11/2009 at 23:00

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
yeh will do that monday, got a friend who has a friend who works in a garage and he sed he gunna pop along and look at it for me, think ive got a lot of sympathy coming from friends as i spose nobody wanna be in a situation like mine. thanks for that :)
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - bell boy
You have my sympathy too gaz4leigh
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - jbif
... I agree that if a part of a vehicle becomes detached and hits another vehicle ... >>


Barichello's rear suspension spring nearly killing Massa comes to mind!

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Westpig
gaz,

Don't take the stuff above personally, unfortunately it can be common for people to register on this forum, post something doubtful...and we never see them again. I understand the technical term for it is a 'troll'. Quite why they bother I haven't worked out yet..but...it can mean a genuine new poster can be somewhat doubted...and i'll admit I was wondering...so I was wrong as well.

There are some helpful people on here and I think they get fed up when messed about.

Hope everything sorts itself out.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - rtj70
The main thing to sort out ASAP is the hire. Make sure you're not paying and if you are (you could be unfortunately depending on what you signed) then get rid of it tomorrow.

Hope it all works out.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - pda
Gaz, as has been said, there's no need to exaggerate or accuse the lorry driver of speeding as it isn't relevant to the case.

What I would do is follow the practical suggestions but I would also contact the lorry drivers employer.
Calmly, concisely put forward what happened, show the expense you've had because of it ( without any exaggeration), explain your situation and ask if they would be prepared to reimburse you for at least some of it.
You may be surprised at the reaction you get from them.
Now we know which tyre it actually was it makes far more sense:)

If you do decide to do this, let us all know how you get on please.

Pat

Edited by pda on 13/11/2009 at 05:44

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - moonshine
Gaz, good to see you have returned and explained things more clearly. No need to apologise either, I dont think anyone was offended by your post, it just sounded a bit dodgy.

Good advice already given above, priority has to be to get car driveable so you can get back to work. If you employer doesn't pay sick leave then you can claim SSP, make sure you have sick note from doc.

Looks like the insurance claim could be a losing battle, even though common sense tells me that the lorry drivers insurer should be liable.

Maybe you could recover at least some of your costs via the small claims court? I think a few people on here have used it before and will be able to offer more details.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Altea Ego
"you do NOT have to prove negligence. you dont have to assert blame
The lorry company ARE liable even if they are not to blame. "
Unfortunately that is not the case AE. To be liable for damage or injury a
driver may cause it is necessary for the third party to prove negligence.


This is NOT the case. the trye constitutes a part of the lorry. The cause does not need to be established. As i said motor inssurance is about Claim not blame.

You DONT have to prove negligence in this case.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - dieselfitter
"you do NOT have to prove negligence. you dont have to assert blame


This is the big question here - and there's a fundamental difference of opinion between AE and CGNorwich. So who is right?

I would have assumed AE was right - if anything falls off vehicle A and damages vehicle B, then I assume vehicle B has a valid 3rd party claim against the owner/insurer of vehicle A. If a tile blows off my roof and lands on my neighbour's car, same thing. There must be plenty of legal precedent for such cases. I'd be interested to know the answer!
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - bathtub tom
>>If a tile blows off my roof and lands on.........

I lost several tiles in a gale, along with many in the neighbourhood. My neighbour had a smashed conservatory roof and one of my roof tiles in it. He lost no tiles.

My insurance paid for my tiles, his for the conservatory.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - perro
The people of Tyre (Tyrians) were famous for their purple dye which they extracted from from The Murex, a marine snail that lives along the shores of Tyre.
Hee Haw, Hee Haw!
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Altea Ego
My insurance paid for my tiles his for the conservatory.


If the lorry was properly parked, unattended and a gust of wind came along and blew it in the air and landed on your roof, then the insurer of the lorry may claim act of god and might get away with it.


If the lorry was properly parked, unattended and the brakes failed, and it rolled down the hill into your house, they would be respponsible.


In this case, the tyre failed, in use and they are responsible. Thats why you have third party insurance. Any judge would consider such a claim reasonable.

If you can get the claim that far.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - TheOilBurner
I think AE is probably right, the damage was caused by debris directly from the lorry. That is enough to substantiate a claim. However, as gaz4leigh doesn't have fully comp insurance or legal cover (presumably) there is nobody to fight their corner, hence why the lorry's insurance are trying it on with the "act of god" nonsense.

Now to solve your problem, gaz4leigh. Firstly, it is worth contacting a different accident claims company (one with a better reputation, maybe) and seeing if they are interested.

Present it thus: "I was on the motorway overtaking a lorry when debris from the lorry (what caused it and why doesn't matter) struck my car". That's it. These facts should be agreed upon by the lorry's insurers too. The rest is irrelevant - stick to the facts. If they offer you a hire car whilst yours is being repaired, insist on something very small and cheap, this will help smooth things in claiming from the 3rd party.

If you can get a claims company interested (there's lot to choose from!), not only will they repair your car, but they will also be able to make a claim for your other losses, e.g. pay lost because of time off work.

When choosing a claims company, pick one that's well known and has insurance in place to cover any losses which they are unable to recover, so you don't get landed with a bill for the hire car later on.

Above all, don't give up just yet. There's still options to explore.

If all else fails, follows Gordon Bennett's excellent advice, get some second hand parts, hammer the other bits straight and move on.

My best wishes with getting over the shock and getting back behind the wheel. Try not to leave it too long, the longer you leave it, the harder it will get. Good luck!

Edited by TheOilBurner on 13/11/2009 at 10:09

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - bell boy
Excellent post TheOilBurner
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - M.M
So as a new inexperienced driver of just a year you have debris from a lorry smash into your car at nearly 70mph causing a level of damage that could include suspension/brake failure or a bonnet that might flip up... and you say causing you great shock... so you drive on regardless speeding up and actually stop/pull over a lorry at motorway speeds... with no regard to the responsibility for your 8-yr old son and passenger... amazing.

There is still either something odd in the account or you are a very very reckless driver who could have caused a far more major motorway accident than the damage done by the shedding tyre!

You should thank God you got away with your actions.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - perro
>>> You should thank God you got away with your actions. <<<

Poor old God, he gets the blame for everything these days - Global warming anyone?
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - M.M
I was being ironic :-)
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - perro
>>> I was being ironic :-) <<<

So was I Brother - - - - - - - -> :-D
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - rjr
if anything falls off vehicle A and
damages vehicle B then I assume vehicle B has a valid 3rd party claim against
the owner/insurer of vehicle A. If a tile blows off my roof and lands on
my neighbour's car same thing. There must be plenty of legal precedent for such cases.
I'd be interested to know the answer!


There is plenty of legal precedent and unfortunately for the OP it validates the insurance company's position.

If a tile blows of my roof and damages my neighbours car then I (or my insurance company) will only have a liability if I have breached my duty of care to my neighbour (i.e. I have been negligent in maintaining my roof). If there were no apparent problems with the roof then I owe my neighbour nothing.

If a tyre blows out on a lorry and damages another motorists car then the lorry's insurer will only have a liability if the lorry's owner has breached their duty of care to other motorists (i.e. to have been negligent in maintaining the tyre, for example, if the tyre was over or under inflated, damaged, worn out or being fouled by part of the bodywork). If the failure of the tyre could not have been foreseen then there is no liability.

A solicitor will be able to confirm the situation to the OP in an initial free consultation.

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Altea Ego
>There is plenty of legal precedent and unfortunately for the OP it validates the insurance company's position.

Afraid there isnt. Your house insurance is not all third party risk. Motoring insurance is and has to be to meet the requirements of the RTA., Is a different type of policy.

You cant compare house insurance and motoring insurance.


Edited by Altea Ego on 13/11/2009 at 11:14

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Lygonos
make sure you have sick note from doc <<


What? For not having access to a car.

Not even slightly medical.

It's an HR issue, and if one of my patients came with that story they'd be told the same.

-

"Acts of God" is a tricky area - if a driver has a fit/heart attack and crashes, if there was no prior history of ill health, then there is no liability. If they have, then liability is much more likely.

As has been mentioned is a good reason for Full Comp insurance, especially if you cannot afford to cover your losses without financial difficulty. If you are driving a £1000 banger then it's not going to be in your best interest to make a claim anyway as the knock-on effect on insurance costs will far outweigh the payment (minus excess).

As also has been mentioned the OP needs to get legal advice to see if she has a case to put forward. A solicitor should be able to do this within a 'free' initial consult.

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - FotheringtonThomas
"Acts of God" is a tricky area - if a driver has a fit/heart attack
and crashes if there was no prior history of ill health then there is no
liability.


Come on then, let's see authoritative evidence for this.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - rjr
>> "Acts of God" is a tricky area - if a driver has a fit/heart
attack
>> and crashes if there was no prior history of ill health then there is
no
>> liability.
Come on then let's see authoritative evidence for this.


Ryan v Young [1938] 1 All ER 522

Driver appeared to be of sound health but suffered with fatty degeneration of the heart. Medical examination could not have indicated any liability to sudden collapse. Held: driver not liable.

However, the position is not as straight forward if the driver has a history of ill health. It may be possible to establish that he was negligent in driving if he had reasonable grounds for thinking that, from illness or otherwise, his skill or judgment as a driver may have been impaired. Establishing this may be difficult and will certainly require a detailed consideration of the driver's medical history, and in particular their GP notes and also making enquiries of the DVLA.

See Waugh v James K Allan Ltd. [1964] 2 Lloyd's Rep. (House of Lords):

The driver if a lorry was suddenly disabled by an attack of coronary thrombosis which killed him. The lorry mounted the pavement and struck the Appellant ?.
Fifteen minutes before the accident the driver had been taken ill when loading the lorry but had recovered, at least partially, and had driven off. He had driven a quarter of a mile when the accident occurred. He had gastric attacks from time to time in the past but otherwise enjoyed good health.

Held: A motor vehicle is potentially a lethal weapon; there vests upon every driver of such a vehicle a serious duty owed to his fellow human beings not to drive the vehicle on a public road if he has or should have reasonable grounds for thinking that, from illness or otherwise, his skill or judgment as a driver may have been impaired. Nevertheless, on the facts of this case, the driver was not negligent in taking the lorry out; he had no reason to suppose that his illness was not another gastric attack which, when it passed off, left no serious disability.

Jones v. Denison [1971] RTR 174, CA.

The Defendant was driving his car when it ran out of control on to the pavement, striking the Plaintiff and injuring her. His defence to this claim for damages was that he had temporarily lost control due to a ?blackout?, i.e. loss of consciousness. His medical history including a coronary thrombosis six years earlier and a slight cerebral thrombosis. His doctor had not advised he should not drive. He also had four short blackouts in the previous ten months but had been unaware of them: his wife knew of them but did not tell him of them until after the accident. In the Court below the Judge accepted the Defendant?s evidence that he did not know of the blackouts before the accident and held that he had discharged the burden of proof on him. His wife was not called to give evidence because of illness. On appeal it was argued that without the wife?s evidence as to when, and where and how the blackouts had taken place it was an undefended case.

Held: the Judge had properly directed himself that the real issue was whether the Defendant ought to have realised from what had happened in the past that he ought not to have been driving. On the evidence of the Defendant and his doctor there was no ground for saying he ought reasonably to have suspected that he was or might be subject to an attack such as he had had. The onus was on the Defendant and he had established his case. Appeal dismissed.

www.zenithchambers.co.uk/articles/Successive_Injur...c
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - Bill Payer
Nothing legal is black and white - that's why there are many wealthy lawyers - but the odds are stacked against the OP as no-one will take this case on and she can't afford to pursue it herself (and in all probability would lose anyway).
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - FotheringtonThomas
But what about insurance payouts?
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
just thought i'dlet you know my car was book priced at £2900.................... so i'm not driving a £1000 banger!!
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - CGNorwich
You cant compare house insurance and motoring insurance.

The fact is you can.

As far as damage caused to third parties it is the law relating to the tort of negligence that matters. The same legal principles apply however the damage or loss occurred. The RTA does not change these principles, it only makes it compulsory to have insurance to cover you against any liability you incur as a result of negligent driving of a road vehicle.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - jbif
... cover you against any liability you incur as a result of negligent driving of a road vehicle. >>


CGNorwich: why does the law use words such as:
" ... owing to the presence of a Mechanically Propelled Vehicle on a road or other public place, an accident occurs by which -
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused - .... "


Edited by jbif on 13/11/2009 at 16:08

Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - gaz4leigh
just updating every one. still knowhere with claim, a solicitors in manchester have took it on through national accident helpline but the drivers company sent someone out to look at the damage and then said they are not accepting liability and it IS an act of god!!! argh!!! the company have sent details of the lorry and apparenty it shows the maintainence details were all up to date so am back to square one.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of god? - oilrag
Hii again, Gax4leigh.

Maybe it`s best to move on and patch it up from parts available in scrapyards. I have repaired similar damage at very low cost doing it this way.

We had an old Polo that needed a new front bumper, wing and door after a smash and I sourced them all (in the correct colour) and fitted them for under £100.

Your sad story is a good advert for Comprehensive insurance - with the extra legal protection cover. That said - you possibly have not lost out by not having it - as you will have saved on the Third party policy.
Incidentally, if your situation had happened to me - it would never have occurred to me to to try to hold someone responsible. I would have put it down to `bad luck`

All the best to you.
Lorry tyre damaged my car. Is it an act of God? - L'escargot
........... A: he was speeding ...........


The Association of Chief Police Officers guidelines regarding prosecutions for exceeding the speed limit are as follows. www.carinsuranceonline.org.uk/totallosswriteoff.ht...l
 

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