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HF unfortunately £500 will only buy you another load of MOT pass problems I fear so I say stick with the Astra. The extra running costs wont buy you much in the way of repairs for an unknown vehicle. For hints and tips on bargain basement motoring you might find Richard Hall's site useful: www.bangernomics.tripod.com.html
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Still new to this automatic URL thing, try again:
bangernomics.tripod.com/
Got it this time I think.
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Dave and Godfrey - this is really helpful, thanks!
Will find out re MOT etc and a few more details, and be back once I have pondered a while.
Thanks again!
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HFD,
Unfortunately any car at this end of the market it going to be a liability on the repair front. You just don't know what is going to fall off / seize up next. £500 is not really enough, you need to be looking at a grand really. With this amount and a carefully chosen car you should get 2 - 3 years without having to spend out on unexpected repair bills. You need to scour Autotrader for the un-sexy, but well maintained low mileage cars. They tend to have been regularly servcied, washed, polished and kept in a garage by older drivers. OK, so the engine and box may be bit tired due to short trips, but then you're not looking for it to do interstellar mileage. Things like shocks, wheel bearings, suspension joints etc tend only to be worn mileage related. Very old cars (15+ years) are a bit of a no-no though, as they tend to start suffering from pipes (cooling and fuel) failing through shear age.
Things like Rover 200, Citroen AX, Citroen ZX, Vauxhall Nova, Early Nissan Micras often come into this category. My Dad jsut sold his 93L AX 1.4D for £1200 - it has only done 65k miles, is in immaculate condition and has a good history (DIY not dealer though!). No reason it should not go for another 5 years / 70,000 miles with no real problems.
Unfortunately this is not really the area of car ownership for the mechanically challenged as even simple repairs can add up to more than the value of the car (but the 'value' of the car becomes more to you than it's real value - you know some of its history). Get some spanners and get down the local college for their basic car maintenance course!
My own car (a 91 Citroen BX Turbo Diesel) cost me £600 in February - I needed another car as the head gasket went on my previous BX (which I then changed as I'd just had it MOT'd, and sold the car for £250 - not as much as I had paid out, but some recovery!) - with only 80k miles and 9 months MOT. Since then I have done 13,500 miles and apart from a new suspension strut (£15 from the scrappy, but would have been £200 at the garage) and a water pipe (Ouch that was £150) has been no problem. I consider this to be damn cheap motoring, even though I fully expect it to be scrap at the MOT in Nov.
The government has seen to it that motoring is not cheap. I reckon you get no change out of a grand a year just to keep a car on the road - then add on fuel, and depreciation if you've bought something that does that significantly - and it starts to be a big chunk of a small budget.
Richard
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Just had another look at HF's 1.7td LS estate. Bodywork is almost A1, tyres a bit 'tired' but still got life in them. Interior (like the exterior !) needs a blo*dy good clean but otherwise looks very tidy. HF really is working on a tight budget even £100 is painful so my thoughts are that this car is likely to be a good bet, especialy as she knows its recent history and the mileage is correct. She has 2 boys and so the extra space will come in useful too. Her last car - a Renault 5 - was a money pit whose running costs were inversely proportional to its size! I can't believe this car can cost her any more to run than the R5 even though the tax and insurance will cost a bit more.
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RichardW, thanks for your input. Unfortunately a grand is out o the question, so my basic choices are between this Astra or an unknown 'cheapie'. I've been scouring Autotrader an similar papers for months now, and have a fairly good idea what I can expect for this price - not a lot, basically. The one car I went to view, a Fiesta, E reg I think, was a rust bucket and looked vey dodgy too. So unless I get a real lucky break I don't think I'm going to find anything a good as the Astra I'm using at the moment.
Your point about a car maintennce course is a good one - have bee wondering whether to do one of these for a while now. Are they worth it, ie will I actually learn anything worth knowing there, or will it still be a case of needing a mechanic for all but the most basic of things?
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Quite agree. Much better the devil you know.
The reason there are so many contradictory opinions on this site (or anywhere people discuss cars) is that while there are some generalisations that can be made, the particulars vary, even between the same make & model, so one person's experience of a car will be totally different from another's.
Small cars are often perceived as being cheaper to run, but it ain't necessarily so...
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Have been browsing the 'bangernomics' site as advised, and come out convinced that diesel car is going to blow up/fall to pieces/have something else go very drastically wrong! Feels just like when you look at one of those medical books, and suddenly believe you have every ailment known to man!
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My wife's best friend went on said course. She (a total novice) found it very useful. Went into wheel changing, oil chaning, brake pad changing, a good explantion of how the engine works etc. At least she is forewarned if something goes wrong on the car, even if she wouldn't want to tackle it herself (such as your drivebelt!).
Not sure what bangernomics has done to shade your view of diesels - you squeeze the air, you bung the diesel in, it goes bang - end of story (well on an older diesel anyway). Diesel engines are much more robust than petrol engines, and generally last well over 200,000 miles. Just make sure the oil is changed on time, and reasonable quality is used. Injectors may need attention, but this doesn't generally stop them running, just makes them a bit more smokey then usual. Glow plugs fail every 70,000 miles or so, but they're easy and cheap to change. Injection pumps can wear out (if they're not made by bosch which seem to last forever), but generally not untill approaching 200,000 miles. Headgaskets can be a problem on turbo units, but as long as the coolant is changed regularly it should be OK. And er, that's it. They're so simple really.
With an older car you need to be proactive - if it starts making a funny noise investigate it! A few pounds spent at the start may save several hundred later when something disintegrates and destroys half the engine bay. Keep up regular servicing - this also helps to check for impending problems. Basically, look after it and it will look after you.
Volvoman's appraisal of the Astra sounds pretty good, and you are familiar with it, and have some confidence in it, so I would think this is your best bet.
Richard
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Richard, thank you. Sounds like car maintenance course is the thing for me - I'll look into it.
What you've said about diesels is very comprehensive and very helpful. What worried me most about bangernomics was the part where it mentioned about 'runaway diesels' blowing up - wondering if I'd spot the signs on time if this was happening to mine.
I note what you've said about being proactive, it makes a lot of sense compared to my usual habit of leaving small problems until they develop into much bigger ones. As far as changing oil and coolant is concerned, is there a recommended set time/mileage limit when this should be done? And is it something that can be done at home (by someone with no mechanical knowledge) or a mechanic's job?
Am veering strongly towards keeping the Astra, and your information has pushed me further in this direction.
Thank you.
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Runaway diesels are very, very, very rare. You will usually get some signs it might go - like some blue oil smoke from the exhaust - long before it happens. If it does go, then you need to be as far away as possible in case it goes BANG. You should be able to stall the engine though to stop it. Don't worry - you're very unlikely to experience this! At least with a diesel you do not lose the fuel through evaporation, or risk it turning into a fireball should you have an accident.
Oil should be changed about every 6000 miles OR 6 months which ever comes first. Oil change is an easy (if messy!) 1/2 hour job. Coolant should be changed every 2 years. This is not too bad a job, but probably not for a total novice, as you need to be careful about getting the air out.
Not sure of the interval on an Astra, but you should also think about the cambelt - this generally needs changing about every 3 years or 45,000 miles. This is a mechanic or experienced DIY job. Cost is around £100 - £150, but as it saves you wrecking the engine (£1000 plus!), it's worth it.
Buy a Haynes manual for the car from Halfords or similar. They tell you how to change the oil and other simple jobs, right up to a complete engine rebuild, and now have handy spanner ratings so you can see how difficult a particular job may be (and know the garage is ripping you off when they want £400 to change the brake pads!).
Richard
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HF
As the person who inadvertantly frightened you off diesels, can I just say that (1) Richard W is right, runaway diesels are very rare, and generally will only happen on an engine that is heavily worn, and even then only on certain designs, and (2) the Isuzu (Japanese) turbodiesel in later Astras is very durable indeed, and will probably outlast the bodywork. A Japanese engine bolted into a simple car that you can easily get cheap parts for - sounds perfect.
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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To the 2 Richards -
Thanks so much for all this information. Mind now set at rest with regard to runaways (although hope someone would tell me about the blue oil smoke from the exhaust because surely I wouldn't notice it when driving!)
Anyway thanks to all of you, I'm now 99% sure I'll stick with this car. MOT runs till next April or maybe even later, so nothing imminent to worry about there.
One more question re the cambelt, sorry if it sounds stupid but I really don't know - with regard to the rough guide of 3 years or 45,000 miles, does this mean whichever comes first, or, since I only do about 5,000 miles per year (maximum) does this give me extra years?
Oh and another question, sorry - is my Astra considered as a 'later' model, and therefore the very durable engine? Not quite sure at what age a car becomes considered old.
Thanks again for all your help, this site is brilliant!
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One more question re the cambelt, the rough guide of 3 years or 45,000 miles, does this mean whichever comes first.
Yes. Vauxhall also consider age fatigue as a factor of cambelt wear.
The firms old Astramax only covered 15,000 miles [1] in it's 8 years with the company, but the cambelt was still changed every 3 years, and serviced every year although it only averaged 2,000 miles P.A.
[1] Only used as an on site vehicle.
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Back-Roomers - thus far, due to a serious lack of funds, HF has employed a 'wait until it goes wrong or until the MOT requires it to be done' strategy - no regular servicing on her car at all !
HF - cam belt changes will apply to most cars and are done periodically to avoid catastrophic failure and very expensive engine damage !
There is no law which says you have to have it done and you won't fail your MOT if you don't. Who knows, the blo*dy thing might last years !
Like a lot about motoring it's a bit of a gamble really and I'd guess the cambelt on your R5 could have gone at any time leaving you in exactly the same position. Having your cambelt repalced regularly is really no more than a sort of 'insurance' in the same way that changing your oil every 6 months is, but there are people who don't bother. Until now, you've been one of them so why worry about it now ?
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A J-reg astra could be either the earlier or later model, have a look at other Astras that look the same as yours at the front, are they all between B and J reg, or between J and R reg?
Or to put it another way, is your hazard warning light switch immediately to the left of the instruments (earlier model) or situated in between the two centre air vents (later model)?
The log book will show the exact size of the engine, if it's 1686cc it's Isuzu, if it's 1699cc it isn't.
I would agree with the earlier comment of "Better the devil you know", at least you will be buying a car you know -something- about...
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Thank you Dynamic, Taxi Driver and Volvo.
Volvo - I've found it a little alarming to find I have literally been sitting on a timebomb all these years through a simple combination of ignorance and lack of funds. However, bearing in mind everything that people are saying on here, I really am going to try to take Dynamic's (and others') advice and at least exercise a level of maintenance that will (hopefully) ensure that I don't get too many major problems. Nag me if I don't. (oh btw drivebelt has gone a little slack, any chance of the loan of a spanner and a few of your muscles sometime in the week?)
Taxi Driver - just checked hazard switch and it's between the air vents, so I have the later model. Don't yet have logbook, so no idea of exact engine size.
Thanks all of you.
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Dave TD, (or anyone else that might be able to give me an opinion),
now that I have a few more facts, is it possible to give me a little more idea as to the market value of this car, or am I asking the impossible here? Just want to have enough knowledge to make a decent offer.
To summarise, J reg, newer model, good condition inside and out (no rust), 133k, MOT June '03, tax Dec 02, serviced 14 months ago and done 2000 miles since then, oil and coolant were changed at service, cambelt changed 2 years (and around 4000 miles) ago. (so I guess no maintenance in these respects needed for the best part of a year anyway, based on what I've been advised here). You were good enough to give me the ball-park figure of between 350 and 800 pounds before, Dave TD, are you able to get any closer to a realistic figure based on the above?
Would be very grateful for any opinions.
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Phew, another Saturday night shift finished... (Look at the time of posting!)
Hmmm. Still depends on whether it's a turbo or not, i would say. If it's badged 1.7D then £500 would be a fair price, if it's badged 1.7TD (or if it has a smaller black and red "Turbo Intercooler" badge near the 1.7D) then add another £100-£150 on to it.
Knowing your budget and what you've said about the car's current owner being flexible over the price, I was tempted to lower these figures a little to make you feel less guilty about making an offer, but in all honesty these prices are a truer indication of the car's value. I only discovered this forum a week ago, but already I feel like I've known some of you guys (and girls!) for years!
It's worth bearing in mind that should the car require any major work (and I'm not saying it will, this is just a "what if") then its market value would drop considerably. But that's the same with any car, so based on the information you've given us about the state of it right now this would be its current worth. In 8 months' time when the MoT runs out, if it's scrap it's cost you £62.50 a month to buy, if it passes you've got it for another year!
One other point - even though the car has only covered 2000 miles since its last oil and filter change, ideally they should be changed annually at most, as the oil can sludge up over time with little use. I'm not saying get it done as a matter of urgency, but this side of Christmas would be a good thing. It's not difficult at all on these engines, just a little messy, but most garages (even fast-fit tyre & exhaust places!) should be able to do it for 20 quid.
Hope this helps, as always.
DTD
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Dave TD, thanks so much for your very helpful reply, and in the early hours of the morning too - I really appreciate it.
Didn't realise you'd only been here for a week, I've not been around much longer but have had a lot of really useful information and assistance already - glad you found the site!
The car is badged 1.7D, and I've not noticed any 'Turbo intercooler' badge, so I'll go with your figure of 500 pounds.
I understand about this being lower if any major work is required, as is the case with any car - in this situation though I'd probably be lucky enough to be able to come to some arrangement with the present owner - which is the glory of buying it from someone I know.
I take your point about the oil and filter change - and the price you estimate is a relief, I'd assumed it would be a lot more than that - will get it done when I buy the car. As regards the coolant, should I also get this done? - I've topped it up, but should it really be changed?
Thanks again Dave, and pleased to make your aquaintance!
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Another question, sorry about all this. I understand I need to use decent quality oil (and coolant?) - can I ask what is considered decent quality, and what is no-go? Presumably local mechanic/fast-fit place would use the cheapest they could find? Might be able to get someone that I know and trust(no volvo, don't worry, not asking you yet another favour!) to do oil-change for me, but just want to make sure I get what's considered good quality (or at least acceptable quality) oil.
Apologies to anyone that thinks I'm asking silly or pointless questions here, but I really don't know anything about this and am very keen to learn.
Thank you.
Helpless.
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As long as the coolant is reasonably clear and coloured (pink, blue, green, varies with brand), as opposed to murky brown, you should be alright this winter. As a rule antifreeze will last for 2 years between changes, although if you carry out any work that involves draining the coolant (such as changing the thermostat) it makes sense to use fresh coolant to refill it with.
You can buy an antifreeze concentration tester, basically a large pipette with several balls inside, you suck up some coolant and the number of balls that float in it indicate the antifreeze strength, but you may just as well take it to a fast-fit workshop or tame mechanic advertising free winter checks, it's cheaper! Obviously they will be trying to get some business from you, so watch what they do and don't be afraid to ask questions. If something vital needs doing they will tell you, but if it can be left a while until funds permit they should tell you that as well.
As far as engine oil goes, basically you get what you pay for, DON'T buy the £3.99 a gallon stuff, it's false economy. Any decent oil will have an API rating somewhere on the packaging, for a diesel the scale runs CC, CD, CE, CF, with CC being low quality and CF being high quality. For "your" Astra you need at least CD quality. Don't worry too much about the differences between 10W-40, 0W-30, 20W-50 etc, a lot of these ratings are only going to make a difference if you live somewhere with an extreme climate (Alaska, Sahari) or drive something exotic and highly-tuned.
I don't think your questions are silly or pointless in the slightest, you're willing to find out about these things so we're more than willing to help!
Anything else m'dear...?
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You can buy an antifreeze concentration tester, basically a large pipette with several balls inside, you suck up some coolant and the number of balls that float in it indicate the antifreeze strength.
It won't however tell you what (if any) corrosion inhibiter properties the antifreeze has left. Rule of thumb is to change every two to three years.
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Dave TD, and Dynamic, thanks again, as always :)
Unfortunately the existing coolant WAS a murky brown colour, even though it was supposed to have been changed at the last service 14 months ago. (does this indicate that it was not, in fact, changed after all?) so I guess I need to get car round to fast-fit place or mechanic before the winter sets in, to get tested and probably replaced :(
Maybe I should get them to check oil at the same time. Not planning on an imminent move to Alaska or even the Sahara, so will go with the CD oil!
Am mulling over getting a mechanic to give the car a bit of a checkover just to make sure there are no obvious major problems pending, although since it was MOTd in June I suppose this is pretty pointless.
Thanks again, for being so helpful - and TD, I'm sure I'll be back soon with something else!
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the existing coolant WAS a murky brown colour, even though it was supposed to have been changed at the last service 14 months ago. (does this indicate that it was not, in fact, changed after all?)
If it had been changed 14 months ago, the mechanic may not have flushed the system. I've seen several mechanics at both fast fit centres and dealerships just undo the bottom hose from the radiator, drain as much out as possible, then refil with fresh antifreeze/water.
Best thing to do is not only drain, but also flush, either by use of a hosepipe, or refil temporarily just with water, go for a short drive, and drain again [1] You can also buy a flushing agent from most motorist centres.
Finally refil with at least 33% of antifreeze in the system.
[1] Careful not to scold yourself with the hot water.
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Why not pop in and have a chat with our friendly garageman ? He's not going to charge you for that and would be able to flush/change the coolant very cheaply I'd have thought.
Who knows, if you flutter your eyelashes a bit he might do it for a 'drink' and give you his brief opinion on the car too !
He checked out a repair which had been 'advised' by our local Volvo dealer and told me it wasn't necessary - no charge for that and he knows I'll go back to him in future now.
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Dynamic, thanks for that, it sounds like that's what probably happened when 'my' car had its last coolant change. And thanks for the advice re flushing out/refilling etc - to be honest I don't know if my confidence levels will run high enough to attempt this one myself, even with assistance, so probably going to have to visit a mechanic.
Volvo - maybe I'll ask local garage man - although I don't like to take the p and ask for free advice, it IS his livelihood after all. We'll see.
There IS another query which I have about this car, which I just remembered about today - but since this is becoming increasingly technical stuff, I'll post it in the other room. Need to check a few things out, before posting, so that I can explain it relatively coherently - so it'll be a couple of days, probably. Sincerely hope that I can get opinions/advice as good as I've had on this thread, it really has been so helpful.
Thanks to everyone who has responded here, your contributions have been so valuable to me - hope to talk to you all again soon.
HF.
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