Smootheddy, when you say you had just had it fixed, had you been stopped before for it and given a warning ?
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Kith,
No I was not stopped before the offence, someone noticed that the light was not working and I went to Halford to buy the bulb, however when a friend of mine tried to fixed the bulb he found out that it was the wrong type, so I went back to have it change, I still have the receipt for the exchange which was a couple of months ago.
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Dear All,
My sincere thanks and appreciation for all your comments. The £60 fine and 3 points was the extreme end of the offence.
First, the traffic cop that stopped me issued me with a Prohibition Notice, which meant I cannot move the car from the spot he stopped me, and the only way to do so was to call a tow truck to take car to an MOT garage and re-do the MOT (additonal costs to me). Even though the current MOT had 4 months left before it runs out, I did this and presented the new MoT at the police station the next day.
In the "fixed penalty notice" he issued afterward he cited the offence as Code123 and wrote "dangerous condition" on the form. I've looked all over the internet and this code as I understand it was for "dangerous driving" - driving while unfit through drinks or drugs, in my case this was not so, I was stopped on my way to work about 9am in the morning.
I would appreciate anyone knowing anything about this Code 123 ? dangerous conditions.
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Dangerous Condition is an endorsable offence - seems rather extreme. Get a solicitor.
What sort of Fixer has he given you an Non-endorsable or Endorsable ?
A prohibition notice for a failed brake light is harsh.
Edited by Pugugly on 24/08/2009 at 12:35
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Hi Pugugly,
He gave me an Endorsable fixer.
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Was the brake light the only problem ?
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Hi again Pugugly
It was only the brake lights, I even informed him that I just had it changed and he noted it down in his notebook and asked that I sign it, which I did.
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How brake lights were out? Was it both of them? If so then it would maybe explain why the copper took such a harsh line.
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Eddy
If it was only one brake light that's gone out - and that's all, the Prohibition and Fixer was disproportionate in the extreme. Seek legal advice.
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do see a solicitor
but also go and make an official complaint against the copper
you have his number and evidence
go queue up at his station, ask to see his inspector to make an official complaint, dont let them talk you out of making a complaint
you are complaining that you are being harassed by use of disproportionate measures
harassment is an offence, you may like to remind them
good luck
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Thanks Pug,
I was thinking of getting a solicitor or defending myself. I think getting a solicitor for this minor offence could be expensive, maybe I should just take my medicine and get the 3-point plus fine and go lick my wounds for the unfairness of it all, would you agree?
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I`ve got a bulb set in the van. Can you still end up the same way, if you whip that out and proceed to fit it without moving the car?
That said, there are failed bulb lights on the dash - but only the later model covers the brake lights.....
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Something doesn't smell right, goat, horse or bull?
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It seems someone, somewhere thinks it's good sport to wind the BR up.
Second time in as many weeks isn't it? Last one was the Jag XKR with no service history and blown engine...
I'll put money on it being them lot over at Petrolheads..
Perhaps we should return fire... :)
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somebody i know got 3 points for an underinflated tyre about 10 years ago
i found out after that he was a pain to the boys in blue and this was one way to calm him down
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Maybe, but that's not a blown lamp. Bull still.
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Sorry but something seems amiss here IMHO
As Pug states it is an offence to use a vehicle on a road with the brake lamp not maintained in good and efficient working order. An offence which usually attracts the Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme eg get it fixed and have it written off as having been done at a MOT station and produce signed chit from MOT Station to Police. Job done no Court.
It it did go to Court then it is a non endorseable offence. Fine only no points.
Now we have mentioned the serious offence of parts and accessories in such condition as likely to cause danger which attracts a fine of up to £5,000 and 3 points.
The seriousness of the offence can attract the power by Police due to dangerous condition (whatever it was) to issue an immediate prohibition on use until such time as the defect has been rectified and subjected to a successful MOT Test (RTA 1991 S 12).
This is not a power that was intended, I would submit, for use with the run of the mill lighting defect mentioned and an offence already catered for elsewhere. If it was it was a sledge hammer to crack a nut considering the number of vehicles running around with one lamp out.
So, as I have said, there must be something more to this or Plod is bending the law to get a harsher penalty.
dvd
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Did you fail the attitude test?
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Dear TheOilBurner,
I wish this was as you put it a "wind up". But it's not.
I have been musing over what to do about this matter now for the past week, until I accidentally stumbled on this site in one of my many online searches and posted the question.
The situation I described is real and geniune, if it's not I will not be putting all this energy in finding out what best I can do in the situation. I've immensely appreciated the positive comments and helpful pointers I've recieved so far. I will of course need to decide what to do in the next couple of days before the 28 days of grace expires.
Thanks Eddy
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If you're for real (forgive me for doubting you, this is the internet after all) then why on Earth are you willing to lie down and take the 3 points despite all the good advice here telling you there is no way this will stand up in court.
"maybe I should just take my medicine and get the 3-point plus fine and go lick my wounds for the unfairness of it all,"
You have nothing to lose by a) making an official complaint about the officer who issued the 3pts (quite unlawfully, it seems) and b) taking this to court and simply working through the facts as you've told us.
There's seems to be no chance it won't get thrown out in 30 minutes flat.
Unless there's something more to this you're not telling us?
Edited by TheOilBurner on 24/08/2009 at 16:24
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Dear TheOilBurner,
Thank you for your recent post. The reason why I said maybe I should just take the medicine is because of what I have read from other sites -- that if I go to court and the case goes against me, then I could get more points and incur additional costs.
So that's why I was weighing out what is best to do in the situation. Everyone I've told about this find it hard to believe, but it's the the honest truth.
Eddy
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You might like to let us know of the outcome, I for one would be interested.
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In your original post you said light (singular) but in a later one you said lights (plurel)... I'm afraid I'm another one who is puzzled by the Police's reaction... I'm sorry, SE, but I don't think we are being given the whole story.
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B308,
Scepticism is of course a good thing, if you want me to email it to you as proof that all I am writing here is the truth, then provide me with your email address and I will happily send it to you
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Members - please work on the basis of what you see. Mods are happy with the OP's Bona Fides.
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.
Edited by b308 on 24/08/2009 at 19:45
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SmoothEddy,
I think the majority are taking you to be for real and trying to help. It does sound very excessive for such a trivial problem.
So, how many brake lights were out? One or two?
Edited by moonshine {P} on 24/08/2009 at 19:02
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SmoothEddy, ....... So, how many brake lights were out? One or two? >>
Smootheddy, seven questions for you:
1. So, how many brake lights were out? One or two?
can you also answer the following:
2. when you say "light", do you mean bulb(s)?
was recently stopped on a bright morning for having no brake light. >>
3. how recently?
I just had the light changed but for whatever reason it was not working at the time I was stopped. >>
4. what do you mean by "just had the light changed"? Do you mean two months ago?
someone noticed that the light was not working and I went to Halford to buy the bulb, however when a friend of mine tried to fixed the bulb he found out that it was the wrong type, so I went back to have it change, I still have the receipt for the exchange which was a couple of months ago. >>
5. does that mean that you fitted the correct type of exchanged bulb( or bulbs?) a couple (I take it you mean two months) of months ago,
6. and it (they) were not working when you were stopped two months later?
7. Was there something in the exchanges between you and the Policeman that was in any way likely to cause him to take a dislike to you?
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please work on the basis of what you see.
PU, and SE, I'm not doubting the OP's credentials, or what he's told us so far... but I think we have all agreed that the Police action for one brakelight seems well overboard, so we think we need more info which may clarify what has happenned...
In addition to jibif's requests, I'd add one for confirmation that it is a car with the normal 2 or 3 brake lights and an exact cronolgical sequence of events would help...
I'm wondering if he was stopped more than once by the Police (hence them stopping him moving the car)?
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Hi jbif
Thanks for your 7 questions, and I'll answer then as best as I can.
1. Both brakelights were not working, I later found out it has something to do with the fuse
2. The bulbs were changed in June
3. I was stopped a month later in July on my way to work (in the morning)
4. See answer 2
5. I exchanged the original bulbs that I bought for a replacement becuase the one I was sold was not the correct one. It worked fine after that.
6. Yes, see above (it was a month later)
7. I've learned from experience that you never argue or be aggressive with the Police, it was "yes or no officer" response from me, I was in no way at all rude. I was stopped by two officers the one that do all the talking was the aggressive one. His colleague was just observing throughtout the whole exchange I think he only uttered just one word, and that was to confirm something I said. If I was at all rude, I believe the other officer would have jumped on the matter, but in this case he just looked on.
Hope that answers your questions.
Eddy
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SE,
With both brake lights out, all I can think is the copper suspected you were one of the scamsters who create rear-end shunts to claim whiplash insurance.
If you've not heard, they use a car with disabled brake lights.
Assuming that's not the case:
If this happened to me, I would find out where the motor patrols or road policing unit is based and call in to see either a sergeant or an inspector.
All this with a view to sorting the matter out 'informally'.
There's nothing wrong with you saying something along the lines of 'this is a bit stiff and is surely only worth a fine'.
If too much time has passed, then plead not guilty.
If everyone on here is right, and I suspect they are, this is a non-endorsable offence and the magistrates cannot give you any more than a fine.
A good local solicitor, who has done hundreds of motoring cases and knows the local bench, is worth his weight in gold in situations such as these.
Equally, you could put your own case in court, it is then up to the court to check the law, not you.
Predicting a court case is risky, but I can honestly see this kicked into the long grass, with a choice word or two from the chairman of the bench for the over-zealous polis.
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Thanks, SE, that makes sense... I take it you have only been stopped the once?
I can now see why they have done what they did, both lights out is highly dangerous, especially when driving at speed on a motorway, though I do feel it was harsh on you.
Edited by b308 on 25/08/2009 at 08:32
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Smootheddy,
Thank you for replying. It often the case that people will post and then not reply if they are asked to clarify details of an incident. I have four more questions that arise from your replies:
1. How long had you been aware that the brake lights were not working?
2. >> Both brakelights were not working >> Was there a third (high level light) and if so was that working?
3. If only two lights are fitted to your car, how did the Police notice that your lights were not working?
;-) 4. Is there something unusual about you or your car that perhaps also drew the attention of the Police to you? (How old is your car? Is it in tip-top outward condition, or does it look like a tip?) In other words, is it like Del-Boy and Rodney Trotters' car or do look like them? :-) Please note the smileys, but the question is still worth answering!
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A big THANK YOU you to everyone who's posted an answer/opinion to my request for information here. It's good to know there are still a lot of good people out there. To answer your question jbif:
1. Afriend of mine was driving behind me (in June) as we were going out and he noticed it. I immediately drove to Halford (on our way) and bought the bulbs to fix it.
2. To be honest I am not really sure what you meant, I can only go by what the PC said, "no brake lights".
3. I was waiting at the traffic light to turn to the road next to my work, and they followed me and stopped me a few yards after I turned.
4. The car is in a reasonable condition, I hadly ever drive it (41,000+) miles on the clock. It's about 10+years old. I took it immediately to the MOT the same day I got stopped to lift the Prohibition Notice order and it passed the test, so it was in a good nick.
Thanks SE
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My old Honda Accord circa 1988 had a dash warning light to advise of failure of either bulb. A great feature which I have not had on any car since.
Full sympathy for the OP - a bulb can fail at any time and unless you check both bulbs continuously during every journey, how are you supposed to know if a bulb fails, even if you have checked them before your trip?
Dash warning lamps should be compulsory in my opinion
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Dash warning lamps should be compulsory in my opinion
yes, great when they work. on my mate's 7 series bmw it would go off EVERY time you drove it. no bulb was ever out and it was very annoying.
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sq
I seem to recall reading here in the past that BMW had managed to design their lamp check system so that it only works with BMW bulbs???
It's certainly useful, all my 1990 onwards Vauxhalls have had the 'check control' system that does this. I've had the very occasional false alarm, which I've cured by cleaning bulb contacts or swapping a working bulb for another working one in one instance.
Edited by Pugugly on 26/08/2009 at 11:58
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Not sure about the cars but certainly on their bikes anything other than BMW's own bulbs makes the CANbus malfunction. Thinking of this my last two BMWs were owned by me I never replaced a bulb on them - my old 3 series had one front indicator bulb changed not because it was blown but because the orange stuff had flaked off it.
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Hi, as an update to this, I was tonight informed by a friendly neighbour that my o/s brake light had failed. Fortunate that I had the opportunity to change it before being stung as the OP has been.
It could have been out since my last check at the weekend, the darker evenings coming soon will at least make checking easier.
I still favour the dash warning system though, it worked fine in my old Honda.
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I've taken to keeping a bit of 2 x 1 about 3 feet long in the boot, so if I do get the 'brake light' nag on the check control I can jam the length of wood between the brake pedal and the seat, and hence track down the dodgy bulb single handed.
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Back it up against a wall, you can even check it in daylight by just looking in each of the door mirrors for the low level ones and the rearview mirror for the high level one... simplezz...
Wonder how the OP got on?
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Wonder how the OP got on?
Who knows - people panic, post and clear off??
Date registered: Sun 23 Aug 2009
Last visited forum: Wed 26 Aug 2009
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