Sorry Cuthbert,
I made a mistake in my original post. He now only sells Citreon , but still has the service franchise for toyotas and Citreon. For your information, my Yaris is nearly 3 yrs old owned from new and has always been serviced by a main dealer. It must be a Friday afternoon car?
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hes bound to say buy citroen if he lost the yaris account isnt he
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I'd be wondering why he no longer has the Toyota sales franchise.
I don't suppose Toyota's have unfailing reliability as with any make, but the song and dance created here when they do makes me feel it's quite a rare thing.
The models i've owned have been totally dependable, the dealers pleasant and helpful.
We recently had a chap here complaining about CHG and possible head failure of his very high mileage Avensis, i'm sure some recall, when we questioned him about the service history he disappeared, but posts like that stick in the mind.
Having said that i'd have more faith in the product if Toyota upped their warranties to match Hyundai and Kia, products i will be considering for the future.
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The trouble is when accountants get involved with cars they are built to a price .
Having owned different types of Toyota's you tend to know what problems will occur !! the Avensis used to eat steering racks it also had oil burning issues but the thing is the problems were sorted out quickly and even after the warranty had expired if you had a full Toyota service history .
I do not think its just Toyota other makes such as VW ,Mercedes,Nissan etc are not to the same standard as before and others have improved a touch
If you take a Ford as an example they are brilliant cars but what about the dealerships and the attitude if you have problems ???
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Hi Cuthbert , I think you are probably correct about this particular franchised garage. Maybe I will take it somewhere else for the 90k service. I have toyota unlimited mile warranty for the next year. I rather suspect that most things that go wrong will be considered wear and tear at this mileage?
Yes I agree I think everyone has to be fair about toyota with high mileage cars etc.
I still think that I would be better with another make of car than a citreon. I might go for a skoda, german VW technology etc. A lottery?
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Citroen cars are on a high at the moment and seem to be designing some good cars !!! they have recently made all franchise dealers reapply for the franchise in a attempt to improve customer services some dealers have not been invited to reapply
Skoda always seem to do well in the JD power awards and the dealers get a good reputation
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Thanks Cuthbert
I like the citreon designs but have noticed far to many problems with them while have been attending that particular garage. I had a look at a brand new Fabia and was impressed with build quality and plastics and according to the telegraph yesterday they have a better reliabilty raiting than toyota! The toyata interiors look good, but have far too many scratchy hard plastic surfaces in my opinion. I went for toyota in the first place because my parents had owned them for the last 20 years. They now hace a Citreon C1 and a Merc diesel A Class (latset model)!
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I dont know that Toyota do live off their past rep as they dont really seem to lean on it, its just a public perception that they are unfailingly reliable, in the same way that VAG cars are a cut above, Fiats fall apart and Alfas rust.
Image is as much about what people want to believe as it is about what is infact the truth of the matter and image and reputation are very much the same thing.
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suzuki are the most reliable cars now
Could you please provide the link? [as I drive a Suzuki]
PS: Never mind, got it here
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/mrmoney/590...l
Edited by movilogo on 26/07/2009 at 22:27
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old myths still strong in my area
i can advertise a car and know its market before i pick up the phone
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yes reputations lag reality
jap made toyotas such as my Y reg 3 door corolla really were made to go on forever, and like the pickup trucks the taliban use would take a lot of abuse with no problem
they have been reacting to CO2 rules etc, and went along the MMT and similar routes and sacrificed some reliability along the way
Fiats yes years ago were rustbucket heaps of junk, the current Panda however is a fantastic little car (again avoid the auto gearbox for same reasons as Toyota) and they will go on forever, look at some of the early ones not a sign of rust, I think theyre galvanised? some of the bigger Fiats are not up to the same quality
Suzuki from personal experience are where Toyota were a few years ago, proper reliable auto gearboxes, and current model Swift as I said before is a lot better than a current Yaris
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Curious to note that Daihatsu, closely linked with Toyota dont use the same running gear we get in UK Toyotas. You cant get the excellent autobox we have in our Sirion in the Yaris, which is a terrible shame as in the previous generation Yaris, it was a lovely combination. Old ways are the best sometimes - our Sirion still returns decent economy and CO2 is only 151 so not ever so bad really. Best of all, Daihatsu have Toyotas reputation much the same as Suzuki - only problem with them is they are a bit pricey oddly.
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I like the Swift too and it's lovely auto box, but those who think they are the new Corolla should have a look underneath after a nice salty winter.
They may well be cheaper for a reason.
Bit of a common theme appearing in this and other threads, the automated manual box by whatever name it's known doesn't seem to be a recipe for a long life.
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you are so right gb
i mentioned underbody protection on the sirions and got sent to siberia about 2 years ago
suzuki are the same
a lot of people slag european cars but they certainly are prepared for our roads
i would love to look under a new hyundai and see what protection they have too
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i would love to look under a new hyundai and see what protection they have too
Can't speak for them BB, don't carry 'em, but the Kia Ceed stablemate is impressively put together for it's price and i'd expect a long life from one.
By far the best build i've seen underneath was on the Toyota Celica and Lexus is2/300, many others now have huge plastic covers along almost the whole length of the car, can't see whats behind that of course.
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yes very frightening when even the motman cant assess whether the brake pipes are mint or terminal just so the manufacturers can get another percentage point on their mpg figures
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The clear direction that governments and the industry are taking at the moment is toward cars being scrapped before they hit 10 years old.
Given that just about anything will hit that age without severe enough rusting to take it off the road (even early 90s Nissans will manage at least that, and they were worse than the norm, shame really when the engines would outlast the bodyshell three or four times over), I would rather that manufacturers paid attention to making sure the car didn't go wrong -- preferably at all -- in the 150K or so I'd expect it to cover in the meantime.
We have an old (12-year-old) Daewoo car as our second motor. These cars were as cheap as could be, yet the rust is only now starting to manifest itself (underside still fine -- no welding required as of yet). I would be extremely disappointed if any modern car didn't reach the same level of protection -- no-one is going to convince me that a Daewoo is particularly amazing in this regard. Previous Japanese cars also only started to show signs of age in the bodywork area well after their tenth birthday.
As far as I am concerned the rust argument is a red herring. After the 10th birthday, any further service you get from any mass-market car is a bonus really, and I'd rather the expense was yearly and predictable (rust -- think Japanese) than constant and out-of-the-blue (electrical failures -- think French).
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My car has done 80k in 3 years. How does that fit into your argument. I hope you are wrong about origins of cars, mine is Jap designed and French built. According to you it will have rust and electrical problems. Think you are correct about the electrical problems, hope you are wrong about the rust.
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Japanese cars rust. They always have done and they probably always will do.
Point I am making though is that even the rotboxes of today should go for ten years before they start to fall to pieces. So it's a bit of a non-argument.
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>>Japanese cars rust. They always have done and they probably always will do.
Can't find any evidence of this on the Mazda I bought nearly 7 years ago.
Clk Sec
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My Avensis is fine. Just had its third service in two years. No signs of any problems at all (apart from the tyres ;¬)).
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"Japanese cars rust. They always have done and they probably always will do."
I LOVE sweeping generalisations: which are wrong of course. I challenge you to find say 19 off 10 year old rusty Yarises: (Yari?) I refer of course to externally visible rust...
Sinc the body is largely galvanised with a falt floor and lots of underbody protection...
( It's a problem of past perceptions in my view...true 20 years ago)
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Vauxhalls. They rust. I mean do you see Victors these days? Wyvern? Cresta? no nobody wants them - rot boxes, dont know why vauxhall still make them
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I note that people come back with examples of their much less than ten year old cars....
I speak from experience. Japanese cars I have owned have all rusted worse than non-Jap ones.
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The clear direction that governments and the industry are taking at the moment is toward cars being scrapped before they hit 10 years old.
Bad luck on them then, as our 13 year old MB will last many more years yet, and the 2 year old Hilux (that's gone quick) is now fully professionally rustproofed and we have every intention of upsetting Govt lackeys by running that far longer too..;)
Trouble is we don't know what our means will be in 10 years time, so keeping cars rust free as much as possible may seem a waste of time and money to many, but you never know what the future holds...hedge your bets.
I do make one prediction for 10 years time though...MP's will be doing nicely thankyou.
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Our Sirion is galvanised so I dont expect to see any rust anytime soon, especially after this summer when I will have lathered the underside with underseal, just as ive done with my still rust free 6 year old Charade. When should I expect this rampant rust?
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the underside of our 2yr old mx5 plus the components underneath are a good demo of surface rust.
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the underside of our 2yr old mx5 plus the components underneath are a good demo of surface rust.
Is it a grey Loskie, i haven't heard of UK destined MX5's being particularly rust prone.
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My Yaris is better finished and protected underneath than our Peugeot 106 - and that is now 16 years old and rust free...
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Had a 1974 Toyota Corolla - bought it at 3 years old. By 4 years old, the rust had got it.
Have a Honda CRV - 10 years old, and not a bit of rust on it anywhere - and I'm not a "keep the car clean at all times" kinda person.
Also have an Avensis, and apart from excessive tyre wear at the beginning, now I only have to suffer a swimming pool in my reversing light which the dealer just can't seem to fix. (He obviously hasn't discovered that B&Q sell silicone sealant!). Otherwise, one of the best cars I've had - super, quiet, and economical diesel, and a sound system that Vauxhall drivers can only fantasise about.
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Toyotas are as good as ever.
Just look at 3rd world countries, they all dive toyotas, in places where if you break down, it will cause you some serious inconvinece, not just a call to the AA.
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1996 Carina.Live on Isle of Wight so plenty of salt air.120,000.No sign of worm.
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In my recent experience, my similarly aged Avensis compared poorly against my Vectra, in the sense that it was less reliable and no better built (from my perspective, and the type of problems I had)
I wouldn't say it was a bad car, but it was no better than similar offerings from other manufacturers.
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I did see a Toyota on the hard shoulder of the M40 on Saturday evening - it was an L reg Carina.
There were quite a few cars pulled over- around a dozen, more than half German built (VW/Audi or BMW) and most of the rest could have been German built (Ford or Vauxhall).
But . . . . . . . the Carinas were built just outside Derby!
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I agree that generalisation is the main point. My old XM has no rust to speak of and no electrical faults, same goes for my C5 but the wifes VW Polo is a wreck, it's had more faults than my last 4 French cars put together.
Steve.
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I'd say that they are not as good as they used to be. I recall two Jap-built Corollas that my Dad had from nearly new (a 1986 model) and new (a 1991 model). Both were completely fault-free, and my Mum still has a '91 Corolla that has had nothing other than routine maintenance in the 5 years or so she has had it. The latter does have some rust though.....
My Avensis is one month away from its third birthday and had its 50k service a couple of weeks back. New front discs and pads needed, a touch disappointing for a car that spends 75% of its time on the motorway, but the model does seem prone to rapid brake wear (pedal feel has always been hopeless from new as well). It also needs an EGR valve stripping/cleaning and possibly replacing. Most surprising of all is that the clutch master cylinder needs replacing. The latter two are warranty jobs, but this is not the reliability level that Toyota were churning out 20 years ago.
As a comparison my lowly 2000 Ford Mondeo required no mechanical work over the 56k miles or so I did in it in 5/6 years. But the Ford's interior was rapidly disintegrating, along with other cheap quality bits of trim such as window rubbers. The Avensis interior still feels factory fresh.
I'm still pleased with the car overall, but I think Toyota's standards, whilst still excellent, have slipped from what they used to be, and the competition have all moved their game on considerably in that time.
Edited by bristolmotorspeedway {P} on 28/07/2009 at 19:11
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With regard to rust, I can scarcely believe how good the bodywork is on my S plate Mazda 626. I have owned several 10+ years old vehicles, plus several shiny new ones, and nothing comes close to the condition of the Mazda given its age. When it goes next year (treating ourselves to either an MX5 folding hardtop or 350Z softtop as a joint wedding present) I shall be really sorry to see it go.
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"The latter two are warranty jobs, but this is not the reliability level that Toyota were churning out 20 years ago."
Toyota dealers are mostly a decent bunch, and this one may be taking precautions by replacing parts under warranty that are only part-worn, to save you expense later on.
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Toyota dealers are mostly a decent bunch and this one may be taking precautions by replacing parts under warranty that are only part-worn to save you expense later on.
That's a very good point Avant. Have to say the dealer I use has been pretty much excellent from the moment I stepped into the showroom to buy the car.
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Is it a grey Loskie i haven't heard of UK destined MX5's being particularly rust prone.
Mazda's normally have surface rust on various components noticeable on the PDI...
notably suspension arms, hub carriers, engine and gearbox mounting brackets..........
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While the subject has changed to rust on bodywork my main complaint is since the change to water based paints the standard of paintwork is poor on most car makes now and is now easily damaged
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Regarding toyota franchised garages, maybe I have been going to the wrong people. I have used two so far and stuck with my last one for the last 6 services. Trouble is they keep forgeting to do stuff which is under the scheduled service. Makes me wonder what I am paying for. I might look for a good independant. Can anyone recommend one in the Guildford /Dorking area?
thanks everyone,
Sheldon 2
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>My Avensis is one month away from its third birthday and had its 50k service a couple of weeks back. New front discs and pads needed, a touch disappointing for a car that spends 75% of its time on the motorway, but the model does seem prone to rapid brake wear (pedal feel has always been hopeless from new as well)>
Did the service include a change in the brake fluid and did you get any feel back in the pedal as a result? My 07 Avensis 1.8 petrol has had a spongy brake pedal since I bought it from a dealer with just 5k on the clock. From all accounts, this is characteristic of the Avensis but mine goes in for service tomorrow and I'm hoping that a change of brake fuild will reveal air in the system. A spongy brake pedal is so unnerving in heavy traffic.
I'm also told that Toyota uses cheaper brake linings thses days than in older cars which may contribute to shorter life brake pads and disks.
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I do not think they are using cheaper brake linings I think it is a case that they have had to remove asbestos from them making them wear more quickly .
On the Verso the disc were wearing out quickly I think it turned out to be that there was to much metal particles in the pads so this had to be cut down a bit .
I maybe wrong !!
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Have you tried Toll House, Slinford/Horsham? I've found them to be OK.
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Thanks , I will have a look.
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Toll House are OK . They are my local Toyota place and were helpful when the wifes first Yaris had a few problems under warranty . I do not use them now for her current Yaris which is six years old and which is regularly serviced by a mobile mechanic not unknown to this forum....
The only problem is that they are a bit 'out of town' with nothing else around , three miles or so from Horsham and 20 or so from Guildford or Dorking so you will need a loan car or a lift.
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No not a grey import ws bought ex mazda main dealer as an ex demo. Rust is just surface on components, not serious but looks scruffy.
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Hmm, we bought a 10 year old 1993 automatic Carina-E in 2003, with 104K on the clock. It ran very reliably, except for issues with battery drain partly due to us not using it very regularly, for 6 years until we replaced it with a just under 5 year old manual Avensis with 50K on last month, at the age of 16.
While shopping we had looked at Fords, Vauxhall, Mazda, and were not too impressed. So Toyota's rep is still solid with us.
While shopping I did notice that the new Toyotas, like other cars, don't feel as solid, trying to meet emissions targets I guess. This 2004 Avensis is still good and heavy, though!
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