Hi folks
Recently acquired Focus 1.8 TDCi Zetec hatchback, 03 plates, 105k miles
I have a persistent problem with starting the car first thing in the morning, it judders at the first attempt and then catches on the second or third. For the rest of the day the car will start first attempt and it generally drives wit no problems at all. I read an interesting post on another forum where someone had the same symptoms and they had a brief reply about air draining into the diesel overnight, can anyone elaborate on this potential cause?
I recently bought a replacement cam sensor from an autofactors online but the one that arrived is black and seems to be larger in diameter to the grey sensor that is currently fitted, does anyone have any ideas on this too....
Any helpful responses would be very gratefully received, I'm having a baby in two weeks and don't want to have to worry about this stupid car any more!!!!
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Any warning lights ?
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No warning lights on at all. Using the dashboard diagnostic trick when I cycle through there are no DTC codes recorded.
Another issue with the car is that it has cut out four times when I turn left at a junction, the clutch is depressed and revs are low. The car has always restarted again instantly but obviously it is a potentially dangerous issue. I'm not sure if it is related to the starting issues...
Rich
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Glow plugs? Does the warning light (squiggly glow-worm type symbol) illuminate and do you wait for it to extinguish before trying to start it?
Trying hard not to be patronising, but someone had to ask.
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Hi
The glow plug light goes out instantly when the key is turned. When it went for an MOT recently I asked them to replace the plugs, when I collected the garage said that the glow plugs looked almost new. I read on another forum that the TDCi models don't really use the glow plugs except when the temperature is very low, it's difficult to know what to believe!
I should have said in the original posting that the car often releases white smoke from the exhaust when it first starts up but is clear when driving.
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>>when I collected the garage said that the glow plugs looked almost new.
Perhaps a previous owner had the same problem?
How long have you owned it?
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My initial reaction would be that the dual mass flywheel is at fault.
In my case it started with the car being difficult to start in the morning, using the glowplugs more than once before starting made no difference. Warm starting was initially no problem but steadily deteriorated. The car would never start first time, it would turn over no problem but wouldn't catch until the second or third attempt, and towards the end it started making some nasty noises and vibrations when starting.
If this turns out to be the cause get the starter motor changed at the same time as it will have been damaged.
Hope this helps with your diagnosis.
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oh dear, I was hoping it wasn't anything related to the DMF after reading other forum discussions. I don't know much about engines, is this essentially the interface between the clutch and the engine??? Would a failing DMF really only effect starting first thing in the morning and allow the car to start fine when run within the last few hours?
I have seen new DMF assemblies on eBay for about £300, has anyone had one of these fitted? I'd be happy to only get another 20-30K miles out the car to be honest as I only do about 5k a year anyway.
Thanks for the helpful posts, they are really appreciated.
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An ex girlfriend had an 04 Focus 1.8 TDCI with exactly the same symptoms of poor starting in the morning.
It had done 78k. Turned out to be the DMF bearings breaking up. The metal fragments were attracted to the windings of the starter motor. This made the performance of the starter motor weak when most energy was required (ie when engine cold).
As a stop gap she just had the starter motor replaced and the car has been absolutely fine.
This does seem a false economy as she will get through a number of starter motors as the DMF gets worse but worth a go if money is tight.
Regards,
Greg.
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Thanks for the post Greg, it does seem like a false economy to keep going through starter motors waiting for the flywheel to give up altogether one day. With that in mind would other Focus TDCi owners recommend replacing the whole clutch, DMF and starter motor package in one go rather than just replacing the flywheel? I've not had the car more than 4 weeks but the clutch itself seems fine to me. Would a garage mechanic be able to advise based on a visual inspection or is the flywheel/clutch not visible without a significant amount of stripping?
On a similar thread would other TDCi owners recommend having another DMF fitted or go for the solid flywheel option (there are several on eBay). I'm more interested in reliability than performance and realistically only need about another 20k of city driving out the car.
I know from reading dozens of other threads that there is a common issue with DMF failure on these cars so any advice from veterans would be really great!
Rich
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Well first of all you need to establish if it is the DMF that is causing the problems starting. It is not necessarily so.
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Following on from your suggestion Simon (in the hope of finding a cheaper problem!!) I had a good check under the bonnet. i remember a posting about checking the intercooler pipes for possible air leaks which allow air to drain in overnight. On the left of the engine (as you face it) it did find a small tear in the intercooler pipe (the flexible hosing) which has dark oil slowly seeping from it. On the underside of the bonnet there is fresh oil spray just above this location which also suggests a leak. I tried a botch repair with insulating tape. Any ideas whether this could cause a problem with starting first thing in the morning with some white smoke?
I tried some the clutch tests recommended in the Haynes manual, there was no grinding when selecting reverse gear or creep backwards with handbrake off. I'm not sure that there is much of an engine vibration/rattle at idle, this is the first diesel i've owned so I have nothing to compare it to.
Regards
Rich
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No you ae getting mixed up. If there is an air leak it will be into the fuel system somewhere between the tank and the fuel pump/injectors. You won't necessarily see a leak but air could be creeping in through a dodgy pipe fitting or union and allowing the diesel to 'run back' into the tank. This is why starting in the morning is difficult because you have to crank the fuel pressure back up to scratch first before it will even think about firing. It is going to be a tricky one to diagnose oevr the internet.
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Thanks Simon. I feel a bit useless not being able to determine whether it is an air leak into the fuel system or a gradual flywheel failure damaging the starter motor - would my local garage be able to easily diagnose which (if any) of these is a likely cause? At the recent MOT they suggested that I take it to a diesel specialist but I think that was a time issue rather than anything else.
The car had obviously had a prang to the front drivers-side because there is a dented panel and the wheel was buckled. Could this have caused an air-pipe to split or come loose? I don't know if there was a starting problem before the prang, I bought the car on eBay recently and the service history turned out to be fake - I really wish I had gone for something else!!! I think I am in the process of learning a valuable but expensive lesson in car-buying....
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Most probable cause is air leaking INTO the fuel system overnight.Get underneath at the tank and check all unions and examine any plastic pipe connectors.These can rub against the underneath and let air in. An easy way to test unions is to liberaly cover them all with a thick grease
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