I rather think it is. I mean, they may have been churning out rubbish for years in the form of reheated Leyland Sherpas but the latest Maxus does seem very modern and perhaps a worthy competitor for the best. In any case, it doesn't say much about a 'socialist' government, does it?
tinyurl.com/m69zba
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I am not even sure how good the Maxus was. The problem is there isn't much of a market atm. Aren't Ford considering closing its Southampton factory for the same reason?
LDV like Rover it was always going to happen. I feel sorry for all the people who might have lost their jobs but there is hopefully still hope.
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I think it's a shame that people actually bought the rubbish they knocked out for all those years. I don't think I ever heard a kind word in favour of their vans yet they still sold. I presume they did so on price as compared to equivilant versions by other makers.
I remember the royal mail being big customers as most vans seemed to be sherpas and then DLV's.
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Father in law can't think of a single good word to say about the one he has to drive at work. Literally reckons no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
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Didn't the Sherpa style vans have a narrow track (as they originaly built on the same line as the Marina) and this ended up making them popular with the post office as they are great in narrow streets?
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>>..I don't think I ever heard a kind word in favour of their vans >>
Actually my next door neighbour, a landscape gardener, has an ex-Royal Mail LDV and was telling me recently (I'd just informed him that LDV had announced it was going into administration) that his van had proved very reliable throughout the time he has owned it.
A relative who had one in the late 80s to early 90s was also perfectly happy with his van.
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In any case, it doesn't say much about a 'socialist' government, does it?>>
Its already given billions of our money away to the banks; Tom, Dick and Harry etc (and to some grasping MPs)..:-)
What's more a policy of shoring up troubled businesses is often a case of throwing good money after bad as has been proved on occasions in the past.
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Unless LDV had the most amazing line up of new vans in various sizes to take to the market place next year, what is the point of giving them money to continue to build something that buyers no longer want.
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LDV is like a lame carthorse. You shoot it to put it out of its misery.
There was never any danger of this making a profit, and would be constant drain big time on the public purse.
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I believe that bailing out LDV is exactly the kind of thing a LABOUR government SHOULD be doing. If you can save 6,000 jobs by supporting a home-grown industry through tough times then what's not to like? I can understand the 'sink or swim' logic during the good times but surely this is a company that can prosper if properly supported by the public sector, armed forces etc.
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logic during the good times but surely this is a company that can prosper if properly supported by the public sector armed forces etc.
err no. Even in the good times its been bouncing in and out of bankrupcy. It never has prospered, and there is no prospect of that changing.
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I actually believe in job losses.
There is no point on on supporting a lame job as the Rover fiasco showed. Yes if 6000 people lose their jobs it would be tragic but in reality a small company like LDV can't survive long term so why wait for the government to spend £10 million or so recueing in LDV to find that in 10 years time LDV have gone bust?
The money would be much better spent on re-educating the workforce and paying them good benefits until they find new jobs.
I know the issue is a lot more complicated than that, but once Manchester had a massive textile industry and the city has now moved away from this has become a massive media hub. The places which have not moved on now seem to be suffering.
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The Maxus looks quite good and it could have picked up a few sales when Ford spoiled the Transit with an ugly Botox facelift. But I've heard that the Maxus is a bit lacking compared to the competition.
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The money would be much better spent on re-educating the workforce and paying them good benefits until they find new jobs.
I see what you're saying and that's fine in principle, but in the real world...
I personally know a former Rover worker who took on a job doing landscape gardening with an established firm for a fraction of his previous wage with no benefits at all. It's back breaking stuff and the job is always hanging in the balance, especially in recent times. As he's getting older it's getting increasingly difficult for him to physically manage the job. But it's work and they can still pay the mortgage (just) thanks to his wife doing well in her work.
He's one of the lucky ones, many of his mates are still looking for work, any work, four years on. So much for the task force that was put in place and the promise of re-training etc.
Sadly, there's just not much call for basically unskilled workers who only know how to screw a car together. Most of them aren't exactly suited to the shop work that will be springing up on Longbridge with the new massive development that going on either.
If at all possible it's best to keep these companies running (even if they are a basket case at present) and invest in them until they can be profitable with a decent product to sell.
The government is taking this route with the banks, why not LDV and others? If it because "dirty" manufacturing jobs get looked down upon, but banks are "clean and good"?
It's often boasted that, despite the naysayers, we still have so much engineering and manufacturing work in the UK. The truth is that it's being constantly whittled down, at one time slowly but surely and now increasingly quickly.
The younger generation may be able to adapt to this changing world, but it's the folks who have already invested a large chunk of their lives into the only job they've ever known who really suffer IMO.
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So keeping making the junk and parking it up where ever there is some cheap storage ?
They haven't got anything new in the pipeline. No new engines, no new transmission. They will just keep on changing the body shape and slapping it on the same old running gear.
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I think there was some hybrid/electric engine in the pipeline (in fairness)
www.ldv.com/gb/electric_maxus.asp
Edited by Pugugly on 03/06/2009 at 00:08
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Modec looks like the success story there - really neat!
www.modeczev.com/
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I hired a new LDV van a few weeks ago. It drove well but felt poorly screwed together if that isn't a contradiction in terms. Despite being only a few months old there were many rust stains inside the load area presumably where condensation had beaten the poor paint. I prefer Transits and Sprinters.
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Supporting LDV to make poor products that then have to be bought by Govt departments is taking us back to the Russia of the 1950s to 80s.
Let it sink - it's going to go down eventually, as the taxpayer won't support it forever. The sooner the workers get new skills/jobs the better for all.
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From my mobile tuning days I remember the Sherpa as an uncouthed beast - not a patch on Fords, Bedfords, and the Japs ... my last tune up wagon was a VW Transporter with a 2.1 fuel injected engine mated to a smooth auto-trans ... better than a car!
Its like GM, if ya don't make vehicles that the peops wanna buy, then you're going to go "down the pan" and someone else will fill your place ... its tough out there and only the fittest will survive.
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It's not quite that simple - companies go down the pan for reasons other than people not buying their products. They have convoluted financing arrangements which go wrong (wasn't that Woolies downfall? - I thought their trading position was still reasonably strong. Porsche is has been destabilised due to playing with VW shares. GM products are not *that* bad and can be seen all over the place ).
The car industry as a whole is in over production - LDV may not have had a good product, and may deserve to go, but it's probably the craftiest that will survive rather than the fittest.
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I was referring to GM USA smokie, rather than its European arm ... Buyers will put their bucks where they think they'll get the best return, and GM USA haven't been producing the kind of cars that Americans wanted to buy of late. so in steps Toyota & Honda.
>>? but it's probably the craftiest that will survive rather than the fittest. ?<<
Nothing new there then!
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In Britain it is traditional to support failed companies instead of successful ones. The greater the failure, the more money the government "invests" on our behalf.
In the case of really spectacular incompetence, the organisation can have unlimited funding.
This is called Backing Britain.
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>>>This is called Backing Britain.<<< or the Darling Brown effect!
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I'm reminded of my military studies. The Soviet Army had strategic reserves that would be allocated to the successful commanders whose advance was strong, to make it even better and more effective. The least successful commanders would get "removed". It focused the brain.
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I agree with many of the points 'TheOilBurner' makes. One should not underestimate the social cost of 6000 jobs being lost in the area. Most of the employees will be basically semi-skilled but well enough paid to have raised a family off the back of the work. I agree that they too should have to adapt to the new, dynamic economy but many will simply be too old and put out to grass or only be able to find low-paid work. It is very much easier for youngsters to learn and to adapt.
I too, find it sad that Britain does not have a stronger engineering and manufacturing base. While I agree with the free-market framework, I think more decisions should be made with a view to the long term interests of the country as a whole. There is no reason why Britain can't make its own vans and do it well. I do not advocate a return to militant unions, industrial strife, stagnant growth and rampant inflation of the 1970's. I merely suggest that more decisions be made with a view to long-term harmony and cohesion.
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> There is no reason why Britain can't make its own vans
agreed
>and do it well
agreed, but LDV repeatedly failed at this vital step over a long period of time. This is not a forced closure of a well respected maker that has a long history of good products, great management and past solid financial performance.
Its a failed company that has been failing over a long period of time.
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Even in the boom years the motor manufacturing industry was only running to 75% of it's capacity according to a report on the Beeb recently. What is the point of keeping an ailing manufacturer going with public money when it will simply never be needed again? Imagine the massive waste of cash it would have taken to keep Rover and DAF and many others afloat until some mythical time in the future when people would start buying their products again.
Things change and we have to adapt, however painful it might be in the short to medium term.
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There is/was a hell of a difference between LDV vans and Rover cars RR, Rovers were not soooooooo bad IMO, the 75 was/is a damn good car!
Personally speaking, I would like to have seen some of the wedge thrown at Bankers, invested in Rover cars.
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Love 'em or loath 'em, the banks had to be propped up or all business would have ceased due to lack of cash.
Leaving aside the inevitable job losses, who is going to miss the odd car plant? There are still more than enough of the things to go round - in fact HMG are trying to bribe us to keep buying them.
Aside form that, our history in setting fire to billions of quid to prop up ailing car firms hasn't exactly been a resounding success.
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It was far too small. Unless you're the size of PSA it is very very hard to compete a alone. The way Rover was going their next model would have been a rebody of the FSO Polenez.
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and the rest where rebadged hondas from 1993? great cars........for £500....
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Having driven several of these maxis recently I can say without any doubt they are dreadful. A transit is like a starship in comparison. ldv's might have been cheap but they are quite the worst things ever. Even when brand new the air con was faulty several electrical items broken. Trim falling off and engine management lights coming on daily. Eventually one blow up having lost all it oil on the road. (oh i forgot the locks broke, the slidding door fell off, the rear door latch broke etc etc). Oh yes the seat wouldn't move the cloth split etc.
Clearly its a shame that people will be losing jobs but without massive investment to build something decent whats the point.
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It is obviously a tragedy for those who may lose their jobs, in an area which I should think has high unemployment. However, nobody here seems to think much of the product, or the prospects of a new model coming along.
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ldv the van you always promised yourself but were afraid to ask
i was told the other week that even the post office had stopped ordering them a fair while back so i guess the factory was stumped from that day onwards
its a shame as said but todays van drivers wants toys toys toys and the roadholding of a porsche and the looks of a fit bird
so ldv are doomed
as for pumping more government money in then i honestly cant see how this could possibly add up if one reads ones history and understands basic economics
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>>>Even when brand new the air con was faulty several electrical items broken. Trim falling off and engine management lights coming on daily. Eventually one blow up having lost all it oil on the road. (oh i forgot the locks broke, the slidding door fell off, the rear door latch broke etc etc). Oh yes the seat wouldn't move the cloth split etc.<<
They were only teething troubles tojo, maybe you are just too damn fussy :)
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The previous owners of LDV (Sun European partners) waited for the company to go into administration before buying it. Some suspect Weststar will do the same, and get the company for considerably less than the £ 50 million of the recently failed deal.
Colleague at work whose house overlooks LDV told me that in the last two years, a large part of the LDV site was taken up by vans that had returned from lease, etc being stored and GAZ exported these in large batches to Russia for onward sale. This went on until late 2008 - and none there are none of these vans stored on the site.
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I still own a Maxus dropside. Now that LDV is out of business, where's the best place to source new parts from, other than the scrappies?
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Not a surprise, the quality or lack thereof of their products was an insult to humanity. I'm sorry to say that we should,'t buy carp just to keep people in jobs.
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