"But DVLA can't do me a tax disc online or over the phone because I have no insurance cover in place for May." You need a valid insurance certificate to buy tax you don't have it. How is that DVLA's problem?
Because they have no reason to believe I won't have valid insurance in place by the time I need it to comply with the law, which is the only thing they should be worried about. It has a faint and unpleasant whiff of catch almost-22 about it. To drive the car today, I need insurance cover and tax valid for today. To drive the car next month, I need insurance cover and tax valid for next month. All fine so far.
Insurance is supplied by private industry and comes on a very short lead time. Tax is supplied by the government and comes on a comparatively much longer lead time. It is somewhat incongruous that I cannot buy the long lead time item until after I have bought the short lead time item.
But that's just a rant and isn't the actual question.
The actual question is: since all I did to get into this problem was buy a car and get it a new insurace policy and new 12 month tax disc at the same time - something I expect people do all the time - I would imagine this is not just my problem, but a problem I share with a few million other people.
An inconvenience in an obscure corner of the rules that occasionally catches out the odd individual in unusual circumstances is one thing. The same level of inconvenience in an extremely commonplace and predictable area of the rules that catches out huge numbers of honest and law-abiding people is a different thing altogether. It's not DVLA's business to make life difficult for lots of people lots of the time.
I think I've done something extremely common and predictable and yet still been caught out by DVLA, in which case they are rubbish. But I may be wrong. I may have done something rather unusual without realising it, in which case DVLA aren't rubbish. I thought here might be a good place to find someone who could tell me which it is, even if they disagree with the level of rubbishness I personally attribute to DVLA.
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we had the same issue years ago when my wife bought her first and only!! brand new car.
yep taxed and insurance ran out pretty much the same day.
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and the local post office refused to sell us road tax when the reminder came through in the first week of sept.
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(we try and get the tax in the first half of the month rather than que for ages to get the tax at the end of the month...) (we try to use the local village post offices rather than go online, to give them the business..)
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even though we hadn't yet got the reminder through for the car insurance....
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in the end we went to a different post office and they said it was a common issue and sold us 6 months tax,,,so we wouldn't have to go through the same problem the following year...
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paul.
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sold us 6 months tax so we wouldn't have to go through the same problem the following year...
That's the easy solution, and quite possibly what I'll end up doing. But as you can see from my other posts, what I'm really intrigued by is how many other people this situation catches. Pass on my congratulations to your wife, she's first on the list :)
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You want tax for May you do not have insurance for May - your problem.
This is a useful and generally efficient service, given the number of people who do not have valid insurance it's not surprising that they need to know it's covered.
It is clearly specified on the web page that you must have valid insurance at the start date of the tax disk
There are plenty of government departments and agencies who do a poor job, DVLA actually do most things right most of the time in my experience, both in vehicle and driver matters
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You want tax for May you do not have insurance for May - your problem.
Indeed. But is it just *my* problem, or is it a problem I share with a great number of other people? That's all I want to know.
I seem to have clouded the question by revealing too much of how I would regard the DVLA system if it turned out that the answer was the latter, when that isn't actually relevant to the question.
DVLA actually do most things right most of the time in my experience both in vehicle and driver matters
In my experience too. Including in this case. Both online and on the phone I have not had any difficulty in discovering what the rules are. The website is clear. The telephone staff are well-informed and polite. The question of how professionally and competently the staff implement the system they have to work with is, however, orthogonal to any question about whether that system might be unnecessarily surprising.
Edited by GJD on 15/04/2009 at 18:12
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GJD
You seem to be more interested in finding problems than working on a solution.
Why not sort your insurance out in the next week then order your tax disc?
MVP
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You seem to be more interested in finding problems than working on a solution.
Not at all. I haven't come here looking for a solution. I knew the solution straight away and I can handle it myself. I've come here because on the face of it, it would appear to me that a large number of drivers should be encountering the same situation, and yet I struggle to believe such an obvious and widespread bug would survive in the system for long. So in fact I suspect that there is something else unusual about my situation (and DVLA isn't rubbish at all).
But I don't know what that something else is, and it would benefit my future dealings with DVLA if I did know. Thought this might be a good place to find out...
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I guess that statistically 1 vehicle in 30 will be affected, assuming sales are spread throughout the month.
As I said in my post, given the problem of uninsured drivers, I can't see the rule changing any time soon.
As you say it's a bit arbitrary given that insurance expiring on the second of the month would be enough for you to tax the car if I understand it correctly, but they have to draw the line somewhere.
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A lot less than 1 in 30 (nearer 1 in 300?) since most people will have an existing policy in force when they take delivery of a new car. Not many people will buy a new car and have new insurance policy from that day AND on the first day of the month.
There is no financial merit in taking delivery of a new car on the 1st anyway since they now issue proportionately charged tax discs for upto 13 months.
DVLA operate what is generally regarded as one of the best online systems. You will not find many people here who will use the term 'rubbish'.
p
Edited by pmh2 on 15/04/2009 at 18:39
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Tax it online on the first day the insurance comes into force - don't worry about it. I've had a lot of dealings with DVLA in the last few weeks.
Registered a new car - V5 arrived in week 2.
Transferred a plate from one owned car to another - all done with the minimum of fuss - V5s and tax discs arrived within a working week.
re-taxed a motor bike on line - tax arrived within the stipulated 5 days.
SORNed another bike in the blink of an eye online.
Sound advice on re-registering a deceased relative's car - no fuss, no issue.
All the above was managed with associated insurance complications so as I said don't worry about it. It certainly isn't a rubbish service.
Bearing in mind the number of transactions that they handle in any given day it must be one of the most efficient Government agencies anywhere.
Edited by Pugugly on 15/04/2009 at 18:52
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Bearing in mind the number of transactions that they handle in any given day it must be one of the most efficient Government agencies anywhere.
They are pretty efficient. Once ordered a replacement licence on a Friday and it arrived on the Tuesday. The operation at Swansea is pretty slick - believe me I have had a tour of the departments.
I cannot see how the OP has a problem. He needs insurance from 1st May so could even tax the car on 1st May without a problem.
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cannot see how the OP has a problem .. >>
Ditto. IMO, he just wants a rant at the efficient way DVLA are applying the Law.
He needs insurance from 1st May so could even tax the car on 1st May without a problem. >>
Yep, there are ways to get around the non-existent "problem", e.g.
1. declare SORN on 30 April, keep the car off the road for a few days, get new insurance starting from a date in May other than 1st May, and then un-SORN the car and tax it. From next year, no more problem as the insurance now runs to a day in the first week of May 2010 and so on ad infinitum.
2. Lose a few days worth of your current insurance, and start a new policy from a day sometime before 30 April. Bingo, problem solved.
As for the OP's real question, as has been already explained, the probability of other backroomers sharing this "non-problem" depends on how many people buy a new car on the 1st of the month and start their insurance on the same day. That combination has never happened to me nor to anyone I know.
My conclusion is that the DVLA online system is now well proven and is excellent. The bit which still fails to any degree is the one where the human inputting the data get it wrong, or as Pugugly likes to say, PEBKAC!
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thanks for pointing it out GJD - swmbo bought a new car and it came with a years free insurance - guess when it started - will be prepared for next January now. -- I have always spread my tax-insurance-MOT's over the year
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jbif said: >> how many people buy a new car on the 1st of the month and start their insurance on the same day. That combination has never happened to me nor to anyone I know. >>
As OP has made clear, this can't happen because you can't get your tax without your insurance. So how did OP get the original tax for the car? Or am I missing something?
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Interesting thread - my daughter recently renewed her car's tax on line pretty early in the month (can do it from 5th now) and her insurance would have expired at the end of the month. However it was set for auto-renewal but that only happens a few days before the renewal date.
I am aware of this timing issue though as we've had the same hassle with MOT's - you can't renew until the MOT is renewed. Obviously shouldn't be an issue, but it puts an extra bit of timing pressure in there.
I have a well worked solution, and that is not to register new cars on the 1st of the month. Anything other than that and you can renew without hassle. Annoyingly, with daughter's car I forgot and that was registered on the 1st, then it turned out we couldn't get to pick it up until the 2nd anyway. Doh!
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I fall into exactly the same boat as the OP with my motorcycle. I have always bought new bikes and it works out that everything needs renewing on the 1st October each year. I like it like that because it means that once a year I know when I need to sort out the MOT, reinsure it for the next year and buy twelve months tax too. Once it is all done I can forget about it for another eleven and a half months.
But I do agree that the DVLA's system leaves a little to be desired. I too don't bother coughing up for a full term of insurance until a few days before the policy runs out (why should I), the MOT I get sorted earlier in September just on the off chance that I do have to make any repairs, but each year I cannot buy my tax online because the insurance database doesn't seem to show up my new policy until the day in which in comes into force - ie the 1st October (if it has actually 'gets round to it' at all).
So ironically the day my tax becomes invalid is the first day in which I can hopefully attempt to renew it online. There is definitely a catch 22 situation here. Even if I manage to renew it online, I am still commiting an offence of failing to display the disc until it arrives.
So the only real option is to wait for an insurance certificate to turn up and then trek down to the odd Post Office that is a: still open for business & b: actually does vehicle tax too. Living in a rural area this is more problematic than you would think.
So all in all the DVLA system is kind of flawed for me. Okay it is not their fault as such but its not helping me and my situation at all. I could overcome this by buying six months tax but why should I? It is convenient for me to do everything in one go on that vehicle.
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I am still commiting an offence of failing to display the disc until it arrives.
There's an exemption now to cover this eventuality.
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But I do agree that the DVLA's system leaves a little to be desired.
The DVLA system is very efficiently applying the law as it stands, you could not tax your car at the post office if they follow the rules.
The law says you must have valid insurance the day the tax disc starts, it's not a DVLA rule.
Given the well documented cases of large numbers of uninsured drivers how can it be done any other way. I agree with the earlier poster,m they are a very slick operation, especially for a government agency.
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We are lucky to have a local DVLA office here. Have had a lot of dealings there over the years.
You used to queue three times round the waiting area and into the road ( and the rain ) until they invented the ' on - line ' bit......I went in the summer to do a 'cherished transfer ' nobody waiting, was met by a greeter who asked what I wanted then showed me to the appropriate desk where the opeerator was very friendly and efficient, we even swapped a couple of jokes.
Two tax discs arrived in a couple of days, the plates were fitted and all was well.
All my recent dealings with gov. officials have been quite pleasant, The pensions people are really helpful. I think times have changed for the better in this respect.
Ted
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As said somewhere further up, I suspect it is not a wide problem. Most insurance policies will run from a different date from the purchase date of the car unless it is a new driver with a new car.
Just wait until your MOT expires the day before the month end as well. I purposely let my MOT's expire (keeping vehicle off the road) and get them done on the 1st of 2nd of the month to avoid this sort of problem.
I've only ever bought one new bike and got it mid month as I couldn't have cared less about it's "letter".
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Our tax, mot & insurance all fall due on the 1st March since we bought the car on 01/03/03
I have never had any problem arranging this
I can renew the MOT up to 1 month before 1st March so no problem
I renew the insurance (have changed companies too) about a week before, then ordered the tax disc on line a couple of days later - the tax disc has always arrived very promptly
Excellent Service IMO
MVP
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What puzzles me is that if they won't sell you a tax disc for May09 if you dont have insurance for May 2009 they why will they sell you a tax disc for April 10 (assuming you are buying 12 months tax in May 2009) when your insurance is unlikely to cover March 2010.
e.g. Ford bought 12 months tax for SWMBOs Fiesta in January despite the insurance only being valid for SEVEN days (the Ford free cover).
? ? ? ? ?
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Both of my insurance and tax run from 1st of June, and I have never encountered a problem at the post office or online so have never paid much attention. I'm confused as to the problem, but I re-tax as early as possible so maybe that helps, almost a month early online. I check my insurance status on www.askmid.com too. Is the problem that your insurance ends near the end of the months, such as 27th?
Edited by Hamsafar on 16/04/2009 at 14:37
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