DrChris, I take all the sympathetic points you make, but it is clear from the chaos that the parking space is inadequate; if parking were free it would be even less adequate. Charging may reduce pressure a little, as well as raising money. As has been said, a hospital may be prevented from providing more parking space, and even if it isn't, that would also cost money.
As always, the NHS can't provide absolutely everything its customers want; even parking space.
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Nicely put Andrew-T; ignore the very purpose of the hospital!
In our hospitals the parking (on ground owned by the NHS) is contracted out for a seperate firm to run and make a profit on, and forward some money to the trust. Except that the hospital gets less than the parking firm does; on property that I pay taxes for !
It is not difficult to provide room, or park and ride services, at a sensible profit, that could ALL go to the hospital trust/nhs.
Blatant profiteering with no thought for the users. Cant remember the last time I went to a hospital because I thought it would be a nice place to go to!
DocotrChris I am with you.
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I recall hearing something on R4 a few months back that all of Scotland's hospitals (bar a couple which had commercial obstacles to overcome) had stopped from charging for parking. Their politician stated that it would have NO effect on front-line hospital budgets (the money would be found elsewhere) and challenged his English counterpart to do the same. Usual mealy mouthed response saying lots but meaning nothing.
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Of course the Scots can afford it: the precepts come from south of the border. Obviously there is no connection between the favourable Scottish budget and the leanings of this Govt., but things may change in a year or so!
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Also the same in Wales apart from a couple of sites where the trusts in question helpfully pointed they had invested heavily in improve parking hoping to recover a proportion through car park charges. If you do a forum search on this you'll find an useful thread where every opinion under the sun (and every variation thereof) was aired.
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having spent most of this week at hospital (having baby then special care baby unit) its a real pain. They still only machines that take cash, anyone who drives in london will know about the pay by phone system which should be implemented here as it would be of real benefit to a lot of people.
trying to get close to the maternity unit to drop off a pregnant lady and then pickup a baby is a joke.
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Whats all this stuff about if parking were " free" blah blah. We pay taxes for the NHS, we pay taxes for OAPs to have free bus travel, we pay taxes for roads.
Every single hospital in this land should have plenty of car parking spaces, clearly labeled signs for A&E and the emergency parking. This is not a finance problem, its a silly idea and lack of will problem.
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They do have lots of parking and some used by people not visiting the hospital.
Stockport for example has a hospital on the A6 (Stepping Hill). Car park can be busy. But the 192 bus route to Manchester goes down the A6.... if they made it free it would be full of people working in Manchester.
I think the solution is like they do in some outlet car parks (like the Lowry in Manchester). If you visit and genuine a ticket for the barrier is validated for free. Park and are not visiting then pay the full price.
Making all car parks free works if people do not exploit this. And they possibly will.
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Sadly over the years I have spent far too much time with children and relatives in hospitals, sometimes many many miles from home.
I have found hospital ward, security and management staff nothing but helpful in dealing with parking. If I go for a day visit I simply pay for a few hours and accept that the hospital doesn't pay for facilities for buses, trains, helicopters or planes and I really cant be bothered about a couple of quid in the circumstances.
Anything longer then a quick call before hand or call from A&E as got me all sorts of free parking passes, staff parking permits to £20 a week (come and go as you like) tickets in major city centres.
I simply don't see it as a problem
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Stockport for example has a hospital on the A6 (Stepping Hill). Car park can be busy. But the 192 bus route to Manchester goes down the A6.... if they made it free it would be full of people working in Manchester.
Thats a very good idea, so what they need to do is expand the car park and have integrated transport at the same time, keeping the traffic out of Manchester city centre.
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Expand the car car.... and the land comes from where?
And Stepping Hill is a reasonable distance from Manchester city centre (depending on route 10 miles?) - it's far enough from Stockport centre considering it's the A&E. So not sure about your last comment. People living out in Derbyshire or New Mills might be tempted to drive and hop on a bus nearer Stockport.
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Expand the car car.... and the land comes from where?
Do they not build up or down and create multi-storey in this part of the world?
So not sure about your last comment. People living out in Derbyshire or New Mills might be tempted to drive and hop on a bus nearer Stockport.
I have no idea who or what would park there, you made the comment that people that wanted to go to Machchester would park at the hospital it it were free. Well solve a transport problem, expand the car park and let them.
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> Do they not build up or down and create multi-storey in this part of the world?
Stepping Hill (Stockport) has done this... made some difference.
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anyone who drives in london will know about the pay by phone system which should be >> implemented here as it would be of real benefit to a lot of people.
Anyone who drives in London will tell you that pay by phone parking is a devilish device that no ordinary human being can operate correctly. It's designed to generate fines, and it does.
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I have discussed this with people from my local PCT. They point out that if they don't charge the car park will be filled by people shopping or working in the area and patients won't be able to get in at all.
What I have suggested- but have had no response to- is the idea that people attending out patients could be sent a badge to display which would only be good on the day of the appointment, which would either get then free parking or a fixed rate.
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well Lud, i will agree to disagree with you on that one - im glad i dont have to keep £50 of pound coins in the car!
It even sends you a reminder when you parking is about to run out on some of them, doesnt get more helpful than that!
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In Scotland, at some point last year car parking charges were introduced at the hospitals. To park all day cost my wife £4 a time (12 hour shifts).
There was so much uproar that the Scottish Govt removed all these car parking charges except for a couple of hospitals that had signed up for some long term water tight contracts with car parking firms.
Now parking at my wife's hospital is free - but limited to only 4 hours! She parked there once and got a ticket and so all the staff are now having to park on neighbouring streets, embankments etc and much of the car parking is lying empty.
And they are paying CP Plus to monitor the car parking and issue tickets.
I don't know what the answer is - my wife lives 15 miles from her work, her shift times dictate she can't travel by public transport. But she knows of at least 2 admininstrators who live within walking distance but have parking passes as they occasionally need to attend meetings in other hospitals?
But then how many other trades are there where you can't park at your work? Loads, people just need to accept they may need to leave earlier and be prepared to be inconvenienced. We don't all have a god-given right to park at the door every time we get into our cars.
[and yes, writing this from security of my work where the wife won't be reading over my shoulder!]
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Bobby G.Interesting what you say about where your wife works and the administrators getting car passes. Here in Oxfordshire if you live within 4 miles of the hospital you work at, your not allowed to park on site, even my wife had to prove she needed a car pass as she had to drive to work(shifts, nursery on way to work etc) and we live 17 miles from her hospital. Car passes cost £130 to £300+ depending on what job you do.
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But the basic point here is the imbalance between the number of people working at - and visiting - the hospital, and the space available to park vehicles. Neither of these quantities can be easily changed. But most people clearly continue to think that the only way to get there is in their own large tin box with wheels, which they have to leave outside. When many others have beaten them to the available spaces they complain. Not surprising, but there are nearly always other options.
The subsidiary point is when 'foreign' cars steal the spaces, i.e. people who are not visiting the hospital but have found it is a convenient (and perhaps cheap) place to park. How else is that to be resolved?
Edited by Andrew-T on 23/02/2009 at 23:36
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The subsidiary point is when 'foreign' cars steal the spaces i.e. people who are not visiting the hospital but have found it is a convenient (and perhaps cheap) place to park. How else is that to be resolved?
Surely there is an answer, that would cover all issues?
'pay on exit'!
there could be a sliding scale of charges, based on reason for visit, if the payment machine was inside the hospital, then Im sure the 'foreign' parking would soon stop, especially if the charges were high, but reduced by 'swiping' a discount ticket, that was issued/available at the relevant reception desk?
Staff could be issued a season ticket.
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> If the payment machine was inside the hospital ...
Slightly off-topic, but have you tried Liverpool Airport? A few years ago there was a notorious case of a local scally hijacking a Volvo from someone dropping off at Departures. After that, drop-offs were banned and cars were forced to use the short-stay, where you get 20 minutes free. To avoid paying you have to exit and re-enter as often as required. When the barrier doesn't respond to the ticket ...
The whole business is a ridiculous hassle, but it probably provides employment for a few jobsworths in hi-vis jackets bouncing people into the entry point. Parking Management can snowball into a time- and money-wasting business.
Edited by Andrew-T on 24/02/2009 at 11:23
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Drop offs close to departure lounges at most busy airports are banned now. Most because a: they get abused and jammed up quickly with much agro all round
b: they get abused and jammed up quickly with terrorists in offroaders loaded with car bombs.
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Not true at Heathrow, surely the busiest of them all. Works fine, too.
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Not true at Heathrow
>>
Not true at Gatwick either.
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>> Not true at Heathrow >> Not true at Gatwick either.
Didn't they ban them after the "do" at Glasgow?
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But most people clearly continue to think that the only way to get there is in their own large tin box with wheels which they have to leave outside.
Thats ok if the new hospital isn't in the midlle of nowhere, Andrew... You might have heard of ours... it made the headlines a few years ago, Kidderminster... since the A&E went to Worcester 10 years ago, followed by much of the rest of the services (including maternity) travelling by car (or taxi!) is the only convenient way... the direct bus went a year or two back so its either a 2 1/2 hour by public transport (3 buses or 3 buses + 1 train) or 25 mins in the car... which would you choose...
And Worcester Hospital is on the outskirts of Worcester and nowhere near any industry so the parking is only used by hostpital visitors/workers and they still don't have enough space!!!
Madness.
An NuLab wonder why we chose an Independant MP last two elections....
Edited by b308 on 24/02/2009 at 09:01
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> If the new hospital isn't in the middle of nowhere ..
Yes I do remember K'minster, and I agree, B308. The same applies to supermarkets, factories, large office blocks, ..., which are often sited for best motorway access and the assumption that everyone drives there. Presumably land prices keep the parking area down.
But I agree hospitals are a special case, as many visitors may be elderly or unable to walk as far as at a supermarket. On the other hand it borders on vandalism to surround a hospital with car parks like those at the NEC, just to eliminate parking difficulty. The ownership of a car doesn't convey a right to abandon it anywhere, unfortunately.
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