I don't dispute what you say Chas but I feel this is unfair on manufacturers? Who is the onus on to say that these are OE matching quality?
If I build a computer system for someone who then gets someone else to make changes to it, and then they come back to me when it stops working I know what my answer would be!
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What BMW would be looking at in the event of a filter failure is the blue propeller mark on the filter or its goodbye claim I would say. I remember in the early 80s that Honda motorcycle filters were recommended on DIY oil changes - pattern filters were fitted at your peril and Honda would wash their hands of any claim. I wouldn't put a non-BMW filter on one if the car was within warranty to save a couple of bob.
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exactly , not worth messing with pattern parts in Ist 3 years, especially on a valuable car like say a less than 3 y.o BMW. My question is : If the car has a 3 year warantee, then shouldn't it be imperative for the owner to book in the 3rd service before the 3 years are up ? This way, if the service dept highlights additional work, then you have a chance to at least argue on it being a claim. If you forget and have the 3rd service done after 3 years , then you've basically lost the cover of warantee straight after the 2nd service ( unless the car had to come in for another matter ? )
Or am I missing something ? have owned 2 cars from new , both sold after about two and a half years
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See what you're saying but the law came in to untie vehicles from dealer servicing within warranty periods and give consumers more servicing choices.
The manufacturer of the aftermarket parts has to make the matching quality statement.
In practice most warranty claims I come across are, in the vast majority of cases, down to fitting errors or poor workshop practice rather than product quality. Here are some examples:
- Water pumps come back leaking looking like they've been pumping gravy because the cooling system has not been flushed or the antifreeze renewed which any DIYer would do.
- Timing belt tensioners on VAG diesels not fitted correctly and snapping the location peg on the back.
- Thermostats for K series returned faulty with a susequent head gasket claim. Head gasket was gone before the thermostat was replaced.
- MINI Oil filters faulty - no oil pressure - try pressing the element fully into the housing.
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As there is no system of quality assurance in place for parts such as oil filters, it's entirely reasonable for a vehicle manufacturer to wash his hands of any (in this case, engine) problems resulting from the fitment of non OE parts.
I spent some time in my first engineering job sectioning filters (used oil filters are messy) and the differences are considerable. There are many makes I would never ever fit.
I serviced my VAG car whilst it was under warranty, despite their "long life" claims. I saved all of the old filters (oil filter again, very messy as it's a bare element on a PD diesel) for the duration of the warranty. Had there been an engine problem, they would have gone back in.
Many people who have spent some time in the trade will get to know the good pattern makes - I will name Mann & Hummel as one of the very best. Some of the others are dire - one "own brand" example from a popular high street auto retailer had an element which rattled inside its spin-on can when shaken...
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 03/02/2009 at 17:53
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I understand that some pattern filters do not have a non-return valve in them. The effect is for the filter contents to drain into the sump and when the car is started the oil pump has to fill the filter before any oil gets to the rotating bits that need it and are running 'dry' for a few seconds.
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The testing of this function was a large part of the work I did. The valves are always there in my experience (if you have specified the right filter); the problem is that many don't work - or don't work for long.
My un-named example had an anti-drain valve which consisted of a moulded rubber flap over the circle of holes which serve as an inlet. Any polymer when subjected to hot oil for lengthy periods will lose its preload and leak - as these always do. The SAAB I had at the time had a hydraulically tensioned timing chain, so I learned all about the effects of leaking anti-drain valves.
The Mann & Hummel (no connections, of course) version has a proper sealing washer, metal backing plate and a coil spring to provide sealing force. They don't leak. This company supplies filters as OE for several "quality" vehicle makers. They used to supply SAAB until GM came along...
659.
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Ubi:
I think it depends what National mean by "use of non standard parts."
For a layman's guide to ?Block Exemption Regulations 1400/2002? , see
www.boschcarservice.co.uk/pdf/warranty.pdf
Current campaign to extend "Right to Repair?:
www.r2rc.co.uk/home/component/option,com_frontpage.../
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The daft, in my view, thing about these fast fit places doing cheap oil changes is that they apparently won't use the original manufacturer oil filter even if you buy it yourself and take it with you.
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Trying to prove they are of similar quality is always going to be hard (or impossible) to prove.
Theres even a get-out clause on that document from the link:
Note: This leaflet is intended to introduce the interested
parties to the topic of BER. It should not be taken as a
definition of the law or proposed laws. Whilst every care
has been taken in the compilation of this leaflet, the ADF
can accept no liability for any event arising from its use.
With such weasily words, it's no wonder a largish company like National isn't going to risk standing behind the aftermarket products or the EU regulation.
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But they are happy to risk engine damange once the car is out of warranty? The reason the car manufacturers say none OEM parts affect warranty is that they can damage the car, there has been plenty of posts here from people with bad experience from pattern filters.
The same goes on tyres, I am quite shocked how many decent 3-4 year old cars out there have cheap tyres fitted to them and I wonder if one day an insurance company will use that as a get out clause because the tyres are none OEM?
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They'd have a hard time trying that one if the tyres meet the releveant EU standards (which they must or else they wouldn't be on sale).
Also, on the engine oil point, nearly any independant who have been going for even a short space of time are now well aware of the Ford engine's dependance on 5W30 and they use it. As such, i really wouldn't let this be a reason not to buy a Zetec/Duratec, it's 2009, they've been on the go and using semi-synth since about 1993 IIRC :-)
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I always think that if you cant afford to have the car serviced by the maunfacturer during its warranty you cant afford to buy the car.
Its also an investment. I for one would not buy a car with no manufacutrers servicing during the first three years.,
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