What is the point of a traffic census. A total waste of time.
In North Surrey they have been blitzing around the area at differing points. I got caught and duly participated. Where have you been? where are you going? What a complete waste of my time and there's.
Not only that, they seem to create an awful lot of congestion especially in the rush hour when we are all in a hurry.
Takes a good motorcycle cop of the road as well. Some of you may think that is a good thing though!!!
Edited by Pugugly on 05/12/2008 at 19:08
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Another government sponsored job creation scheme. I am sure someone has the technology to track traffic movements, (cctv, anpr). Probably wouldent admit it though.
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Chill out Ben me old mucka.
I'm sure all the data collected would be carefully stored on a hard drive somewhere for later use
...then promptly left on a train!
;-)
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Exactly Old Navy, here in Nottingham, we have them all the time as well as surveys where half a dozen OAPs paek there cars on the footpath or on grass and stand with some sort of hand held clicker all round the ex-ring road and other main routes. These roads have ICTIS Trafficmaster cameras and SPECS, so why can't these count the vehicles they would even be able to give additional data such as class of vehicle and time taken to pass waypoints.
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Whenever I am asked to take part in a survey of any sort, I do so with great enthusiasm.
I then tell them a load of lies.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 04/12/2008 at 23:59
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Good on yer Robin Reliant, I do the same.
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Hamsafar, lets be honest the powers that be are looking for guns
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It helps them to plan roads for the future.
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What roads. ?
We have had 12 years of anti car government that has shelved most road expansion or building schemes.
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......... government that has shelved most road expansion or building schemes.
Can you give us documented evidence of that?
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Ask anybody in Salisbury...
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>> ......... government that has shelved most road expansion >> or building schemes. >> Can you give us documented evidence of that?
The much-needed East London river crossing.
Widening/improving the A40 in West London.
Widening M25 (hard-shoulder to be used instead).
I'm sure others will come up with more ...
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It helps them to plan roads for the future.
>>
I have a sneeky suspicion that they use the data collected to work out how people have managed to avoid their carefully planned traffic calming routes and then block off the roads you use as a short-cut. I never tell them anything useful because I simply don't trust them to do the job of road planning properly.
The evidence is clear for all to see every day.
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I wish to join you in your suspicion, based on the evidence of the some new road closures in my vicinity.
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I just refuse to answer any of their questions, as I am perfectly entitled to do! I don't answer any surveys at all, people who come knocking on my door, pople who try to catch me while I'm shopping in the supermarket, even those multi-page surveys that are sent in the post with a reply-paid envelope. My answer is always the same "Sorry, but I don't answer surveys!"
I am a firm believer in the fact that all surveys are for the benefit of the organisiation carrying out the survey, not me, so that's why I don't anwswer them.
Also, in the days when I have answered them, I have ended up being asked my phone number, e-mail address and snail address; needless to say, I refused!
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I am a firm believer in the fact that all surveys are for the benefit of the organisiation carrying out the survey not me so that's why I don't anwswer them.
I agree.
I was also irritated to see the recent one conducted on our business park using police to pull people over at 1/4 to 9 a few hundred yards from work. I suspect there were a lot of people late for work that day.
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I remember one a few years back that caused major peak hour disruption on a prime route in to Liverpool. The local radio station started mentioning the tailbacks in it's motoring bulletins and advised drivers to seek alternative routes. An almighty row broke out between the census organisers, the radio station and the police.
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I got caught and duly participated. Where have you been? where are you going?
Tell 'em to mind their own business. You don't have to tell them anything at all.
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They usually do have a Police Officer and if they tell you to stop you must, but if they ask you questions or give you a post-card you need not answer it, but you could lie if you think the answer will help save a road from narrowing or bus-lane, humps etc...
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If a copper wasn't there we would all ignore them. As a copper is there we are forced to comply.
They usually ask the postcode you have come from and are going to. I have memorised the codes for Lands End and John O'Groats and give these as a little act of anarchy.
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A comment on your previous post Hamsafar.
'half a dozen OAP's'. A bit disparaging that remark. What's wrong with being an OAP?
There is only one thing worse than getting older; not getting older!
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A complete waste of time I agree. Causes chaos and gives us the brilliant insight that traffic is worse in the mornings and evenings than at any other time.
Standard responses:
Destination: Lands End
Source: John o Groats
Nature of travel: serial killer/sex counsellor/fish baiter etc
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'half a dozen OAP's'. A bit disparaging that remark. What's wrong with being an OAP?'
Nothing is wrong, why is it disparaging? *confused*
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If a survey relates to something I have an interest in, or am interested in, then I participate. Just been sent a questionnaire about my Panasonic Plasma telly and I filled it in. I always tick the 'no marketing' box and I don't fill in any of the personal stuff, but I'm happy to give my opinion on the product.
I've no objection to giving road census data and the ones I've seen locally (there have only been a couple I can remember) hardly caused chaos and maybe add a couple of minutes to the journey.
Earlier this year our local council ran a major survey on the park and ride scheme. Lots of bods in yellow jackets with clipboards asking questions. I participated when politely asked to do so. Over the summer the service has been revised and (IMHO) is better.
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What a pathetic bunch of anarchic conspiracy theorists indulging in passive non-co-operation. No doubt when some road scheme is implemented unsuitably as a result of a skewed and unrepresentative survey, you will all complain at authority all over again ...
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Well said Andrew. The Plod present are paid for at private hire rate, so no reduction/abstraction to normal policing.
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It's still using the heavy hand of the law to force people to interrupt their journeys in order to make them take part in surveys. As I understand it, failure to comply with this privately funded officers request is punishable by a fine . Correct any one ?
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The officer is on duty in exactly the same way as any other officer, merely paid for by whoever conducts the census. Penalties for not complying with his/her request for you to stop are exactly the same as any other time.
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You have to stop at a traffic census point and that is where the legal requirement to co-operate ends. Just tell them you do not wish to take part and you can legally drive on. Saves a lot of time........try it next time ;)
hth
Edited by R40 on 05/12/2008 at 19:57
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Just tell them you do not wish to take part andyou can legally drive on. Saves a lot of time........try it next time ;)
Yes, except that I tend to find you can't drive off because you are stuck behind a queue of other drivers who either don't understand the concept of "no I don't wish to participate in this survey" or have too much time on their hands and are happy to comply with the request.
I don't have an issue with those drivers who are prepared to take part - I do have an issue in waiting in a line of cars when I have expressed my desire not to.
It's like - "we've got you in the queue so you may as well take part now"..
And to the person above who said we may regret not taking part in a survey - I simply do not believe that any road planners have an ounce of common sense. Just look at most towns / cities in the UK around "rush hour".
I firmly believe the answer to the issue of congestion would be solved by forcing the individuals responsible for planning our roads to drive through their schemes every morning and evening rush hour for a period of 6 months - that way they might understand the chaos they cause and be a little more careful next time.
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>Just look at most towns / cities in the UK around "rush hour".
Yes, the roads are full of traffic. At a certain traffic density it becomes impossible to design a road system to make it all flow smoothly without enormous expense and road widening.
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>> At a certain traffic density it becomes impossibleto design a road system to make it all flow smoothly without enormous expense and road widening.
>>
You are probably correct but I do not believe we have the 'best' road systems in place at the moment.
How often do you find a tail of glowing red brake lights because some numpty decided to install traffic lights to what was previously a perfectly functioning roundabout?
I thought that was the purpose of a roundabout - to do away with the need for lights.
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I firmly believe the answer to the issue of congestion would be solved by forcing the individuals responsible for planning our roads to drive through their schemes every morning and evening rush hour for a period of 6 months
This would be a good idea but the planning authority obviously only employs non drivers..
I have often passed census points but have never been pulled over,I think they select cars that fit certain criteria and an 89 Sierra estate does not.
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'half a dozen OAP's'. A bit disparaging that remark. What's wrong with being an OAP?
Don't let him get to you, Natty. Grey power is on the increase. Come the revolution, brothers, ................... !
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I got flagged on the moors above Greenfield at 5am on the way to work. I would have participated but the first two questions put me off...'do you know where you're going?' and 'do you know where you've come from?' I answered 'yes' to them both and she, exasperatedly, let me drive on.
Ted
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Ted - spooky isn't it? After you went, they left...
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Whenever I got pulled by these I told them I had no intention of answering any questions
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Can anybody rent a policeman for the purposes of carrying out a roadside census?
Is there a price list available somewhere?
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Can anybody rent a policeman for the purposes of carrying out a roadside census? Is there a price list available somewhere?
There was one for servicemen many years ago (movies, PR jobs, etc) not wars though. May still be one.
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I was thinking about hiring one to sell double glazing, paving block drives, or house security systems. Would that be a good use of scarce and expensively trained national resources?
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I was thinking about hiring one to sell double glazing >>
Probably not cost effective, I think the going rate about 30 years ago was 3X sevicemans wage plus costs. If you want to rent a warship for a Bond movie it will cost a few bob even a tank wont come cheap (motoring link?).
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Actually I don't really want to hire a policeman. I was questioning whether in the light of the recently reported shortage of front-line policemen for real policing duties, it was legitimate to use trained police officers simply to carry out market research.
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With the imbalance between commitments and resources I would hope that our servants in the government are not operating a rent a mob service with our police or forces. I wouldnt put it past them though, anything for a few quid, how about a traffic warden to reserve your parking spot.
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Traffic counts; there's no census in them.
(Say it fast!!)
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The officers doing Census duties, do so on a day off, for overtime, so they're not pulled off policing duties.
My wife drove through one last week whilst driving my car...and the officers staffing it, were my staff on a day off.....they thought they'd have a bit of fun with me when they recognised my car approaching, only to find it was Mrs Westpig driving....so waved her through
she thought they were ever so polite and nice...if only she knew
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My youngest daughter, who rather disapproves of the automobile being a vegan and left-wing anarchist, is currently earning wages doing traffic census work in Australia.
Despite that raw description - because of it of course in many people's eyes - she is an excellent girl and may well have some tales to tell. I will be seeing her in about a week. I am looking forward to the Aussie road.
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If they are off duty then surely you don't have to stop for them?
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Off duty as in the sense of 'rest days' in other words days off. A sworn Constable may exercise their powers at any time 24/7. They do not have to be 'on duty'.
Likewise they are subject to the discipline code at any time.
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they were off duty...but then being required to work on their day off, for overtime, means they are now 'on duty' again.
The advantage to the police is that with more warning they could have been required to work for no overtime and have a day off elsewhere in lieu, which obviously impacts some where else...
The disadvantage to the taxpayer is that it costs a fair amount of money.
If a Traffic Census is essential why not tag on to the end of some traffic legislation the right for a properly authorised Census Officer the right to stop motor vehicles
Edited by Westpig on 09/12/2008 at 16:51
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How do you expect planners to find out key data on journeys/origins/destinations/travel times/reasons etc without doing a survey?
Just go on hunches?
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How do you expect planners to find out key data on journeys/origins/destinations/travel times/reasons etc without doing a survey? Just go on hunches?
No. They could use all sorts of things. e.g. sensors in or across the road. Tracking mobile phone signals (it can and probably is being done right now). ANPR cameras etc etc.
I would have thought it more effective and efficient to use technology like this than cause queues and tailbacks just so they can question people - most of whom I suspect will simply refuse to answer.
I also have a great issue in how they intend to use the data because the evidience so far is that they don't use it wisely to plan roads properly.
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csg - that only tracks the car. Not much use if you need data on who is driving, how many occupants etc etc.
General ignorance of how transport funds are allocated has well and truly surfaced during this thread.
If you don't do the surveys, you don't get the cash for any transport works - remember this when you are sat in a queue due to no funds being allocated for a bypass.
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What a rosy world some of you live in. The present tax masters have made it quite clear that the Motorist should be dragged kicking and screaming from their chosen mode of transport and made to use public transport no matter how inconvenient, dangerous or unsuitable to their needs. So I doubt any information collected at a census point will herald the arrival of a new by pass or even an extra mile of tarmac. It's all a matter of control and if setting up census points and delaying the average Joe going about his lawful way helps grind the motorist down another inch, then it will be done.
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It's all a matter of control and if setting up census points and delaying the average Joe going about his lawful way helps grind the motorist down another inch then it will be done.
Do you really, honestly, think that's why a census is set up?
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Mr X - it's very easy to submit a freedom of information request asking why they are doing the surveys.
Look up Local Transport Plan for your local council if you need more info.
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csg - that only tracks the car. Not much use if you need data on who is driving how many occupants etc etc. General ignorance of how transport funds are allocated has well and truly surfaced during this thread.
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I take it all back then as I am clearly wrong. What a fool I am - silly me.
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How do you expect planners to find out key data on journeys/origins/destinations/travel times/reasons etc without doing a survey? Just go on hunches?
A lot of people of this board are simply congenital moaners.
In 30+ years of driving all over the country I have maybe been stopped less than a handful of times for a traffic census. I don't remember any massive queues or delays and I simply answered the questions. It seems an entirely reasonable and cost-effective way of getting some data.
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Cue for the obligatory "If you have nothing to hide why would you object to being questioned?" response.
Because "they" have far too much information already, and can't be trusted to use it properly or not to lose it.
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>"They" have far too much information already, and can't be trusted to use it properly or not to lose it.
Cliff, that may well be true. But it still seems a childish response to give deliberately false information just to make things a bit worse. I agree that censuses may be done in an ill-chosen spot causing delays and annoyance, which tends to bring on an urge not to co-operate. But if the results are useless because of that, don't be surprised at the consequences.
Edited by Andrew-T on 10/12/2008 at 10:50
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qxman.
Well in the last two weeks I've passed 3 census points in different parts of my area. I was stopped once. And all three caused huge tailbacks during the rush hour.
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sq
'They' must be planning some huge road changes then - I would say that's very unusual. I think I've probably been stopped 3 times in about 30 years. The last time was two years ago. On a 1-10 scale of motoring annoyances censuses don't even register with me.
Edited by Pugugly on 10/12/2008 at 20:51
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If it doesn't register with you, then why contribute to the post.
There are many trivial topics on this forum, some you have posted on, but it does not mean debate must stop or humour generated from those that write.
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If it doesn't register with you then why contribute to the post. There are many trivial topics on this forum some you have posted on but it does not mean debate must stop or humour generated from those that write.
I contributed to this thread because I felt like contributing to it - do I need YOUR permission? In what way was my contribution stopping debate or detracting from the humour (although I didn't notice much humour)?
Just because I am not annoyed by something does it mean I shouldn't contribute (and in the case of this thread provide some counterbalance to the argument)?
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You said that the topic of census annoyance didn't register with you. So why post the reply. Scribe I don't think was denying you any say, rather the fact that you added a lightweight tone. YOU seemed to say that just because YOU were stopped SO little in 30 years by them it and not held in a queue it shouldn't register as a post at all. But as you can see from the responses, many people are caught up in these traffic tailbacks and for what reason, as stated in my opening post. You seem to imply that they have little impact on us all, you especially. But I think it is right to find out what they are about, why a copper has to be there, which has been explained nicely by our traffic boys and why the congestion caused.Many people have experienced the level of inconvenience through them that you are blessed to have avoided.
Edited by Ben10 on 11/12/2008 at 12:31
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You said that the topic of census annoyance didn't register with you. So why post the reply. Scribe I don't think was denying you any say rather the fact that you added a lightweight tone.
IMHO Qxman's post was entirely reasonable and in keeping with this thread. The guy was just giving his POV. Why the attacks?
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>Many people have experienced the level of inconvenience through them that you are blessed to have avoided.
As this thread seems to belong mainly to the non-compliers, I would like to ask whether they extend their non-compliance to the 10-yearly national census, which is allegedly used to follow demographic trends and aid town planning, etc. I admit those do not usually inhibit their journey home, but if not, why not?
(sorry about the non-motoring flavour)
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Indeed I don't give the national census any more info than necessary. If you have seen the sort of questions they have added to the next one re your sexual preferences, you too might not be so keen to answer.
I am pleased to have put Jedi Knight down for my religion on the last one. So many others did that it has know become a recognised religion.
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