I tend to agree Mapamaker. I've never bought cheapo tyres though - I don't really like to
experiement in that area - just different makes of 'premuim' tyres.
I must admit to being slightly amused sometimes by peoples' descriptions of handling nuance, wear, noise produced etc. , it seems they'd need to have the finely tuned senses (and courage) on an F1 driver in some performance comparisons.
I think an awful lot is down to 'new' versus 'old' - of course they'll be x,y,z better - they're new!! Another part, maybe, is just the "man thing"?
There may well measureable differences between really cheap & really expensive tyres, which I'm sure specialised test scenarios could detect & quantify - but for most situations between those extremes, I'm dubious.
|
it seems they'd need to have the finely tuned senses (and courage) on an F1 driver in some performance comparisons.
Not so really woodbines, or only on fast bends in the dry. Anyone can explore on-the-limit handling in any car in slow bends especially of course in wet conditions. I have always thought that if you didn't ever do that when the road was clear of other traffic just for the hell of it, you might well be a bit too slow and clumsy when an extreme situation arose on the road through no fault of yours.
Need I remind people that it is no consolation, when something untoward and perhaps expensive has taken place, that someone else was at fault? Much better to feel smug that your honed instinct may have saved some of your steed's metal...
Modern cars are cosseting, safe and reassuring. But that is no excuse not to be on top of them, just as you have to be with horses. But perhaps I'm just old-fashioned and barmy.
|
>>But that is no excuse not to beon top of them just as you have to be with horses.
Well, I can't actually imagine a way of riding a horse without being on top of one.
|
Don't be annoying Ian.
The only time I ever had truck with horses - spoilt fat large ponies, seldom ridden - their owner told me expansively that the thing to do was 'Give'im a good whack! Show'im who's boss!'
When I tentatively touched the animal's flank with a twig like whoever the tart-disguised-as-a-nun was in Clint Eastwood's Two Mules for Sister Sarah, it showed me who was boss by bolting all the way back into its stable, leaving me hanging unhurt from the beam over the door.
But I don't let cars do that sort of thing as a rule.
|
|
|
|
Anyone can explore on-the-limit handling in any car in slow bends especially of course in wet conditions.
Yes Lud, I'm sure they can - like I've done too - inadvertently. But the thing is - could you compare all those variable parameters, over time, between 2 (or more) different tyres.
The variables might include: different tread depths (from wear), different amounts of water, different line, different closing/braking speed, rain falling on previously dry road (hence more slippery), different tyre pressures, different load - the list goes on.
So, if the putative driver of your example, finds he/she skidded on a tyre A, but not on tyre B - would all the above have been factored in? I doubt it. More likely, they'd come onto an interent forum and say, 'Those tyre As are diabolical, I didn't get any grip in the wet at all, tyre Bs are fantastic though'.
They may feel they're telling the truth & contributing useful info, but I'm rather of the opinion it's more the need for commonality or to feel part of the discussion/'being in the swim', mostly - human nature, not in its worst form of course - just endearingly silly.
Much better to feel smug that your honed instinct may have saved some of your steed's metal...
Can't argue with that - always better to have honed skill at one's disposal than an empty locker. My dear old Dad was once a London Transport bus driver - early '50s era in RT series buses - and he told me about the Hendon(?) bus driver training school with its large skid pan, plenty big enough to get an RT doing 180 degree skids. I can see a very good argument for having something similar (maybe even compulsory) at learner drivers' disposal - heck, I'd even sigh up for a refresher course!
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's just like footwear really. They all suite different applications. Some tyres are like slippers, others are like hiking boots, some are like sensible leather lace-ups and others are like expensive running shoes plus permutations of all of the above.
|
I'm with Mapmaker on this one, but I'm sure it is largely due to insensitivity on my part.
I don't even notice any real difference when I put my winter tyres on in December, and when I have the summer ones put on in the spring.
OK, I have noticed lack of grip in hard braking when my tyres were down near the limit, but other than that, I can't say I've noticed much difference.
The one place I would expect to notice a difference is in rolling resistance - i.e, since I keep a record of my fuel economy, I would expect that I might notice a difference when I changed between brands, or when I changed between summer and winter tyres, but to be honest, I don't.
By the way, what is the answer to BobbyG's question? "Question though, do all tyres have the exact same tread depth when new? "
|
We all want different things from our vehicles, both our cars get driven enthusiastically at times, and there is a world of difference between good and bad tyres.
Maybe others don't but i want my cars to be able to take off rapidly on the turn with no drama or wheelspin wet or dry, anything less and the tyres come off, good job we're all different, of course sometimes that superb wet grip has a penalty, be it noise or ride quality and reduced tyre life.
I have recently removed perfectly good premium tyres from both our vehicles, the tyres on the MB would wheelspin far too easily when cold, and took several miles to become round (though they were very good warmed up), the original tyres on the pick up were simply not up to the job, and the vehicle felt too big for them if that makes any sense (also went up a size to the grey import size, good improvement).
I didn't wait until they were worn out, by then it may have been too late.
Lud's point about the seat of pants makes the point perfectly, there's a pleasure in the feel of a vehicle that is well planted on the road, i've been in far too many motors over the years that you just knew any sudden deviation of course would cause a major upset, don't you just hate that feeling when the steering goes superlight and it feels like you're driving a plate of spaghetti.
It may be old hat but last time i looked the tyres were the only thing touching the road.
It doesn't always have to be the top makes, often some less well known tyre makers make as good for much more reasonable price.
|
>>...the tyres on the MB would wheelspin far too easily when cold,
My w124 had ASR - from what I can gather, so should yours, so shouldn't spin its wheels under power - maybe it's not working.
|
My w124 had ASR - from what I can gather so should yours so shouldn't spin its wheels under power - maybe it's not working.
Strange i know, but we actively sought one that didn't have the A/C, cruise, memory seats and climate control, unfortunately when they don't come with that lot ASR is usually missing as well and thats the one thing it could really have done with, though with good tyres its not needed so much obviously.
We had a 320 estate with all of the above and as it came with a full history i could see just how much the various failures especially of the climate had cost the previous owner over the years, some truly eye watering bills from the dealer, so i tend to avoid all sorts of unnecessary extras on any car if poss, but climate, especially with digi dash, is one i really don't want ever.
|
>>Strange i know, but we actively sought one that didn't have the A/C, cruise, memory seats >.and climate control, unfortunately when they don't come with that lot ASR is usually missing
Probably a very wise move GB. Although I never had problems with those sub-systems in my coupe, the w203 diesel I've bought subsequently (and still have) has had several electronic related & one/two 'physical' problems. Still miss the coupe (E220) - lovely compliant ride & surprisingly capable 150bhp engine, even pushing that solid lump along.
|
|
|
|
|
