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Strikingly the truck itself suffered comparitively little damage. A terrifying illustration of the laws of physics.
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Just to clarify i was replying to Bathtub Tom. the CRV actually seemed to stand up to the impact pretty well, the problem was it was tipped on it's side and then hit through the floorpan, not many crash tests prepare a vehicle for that!
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Just watched it on BBC's brilliant iPlayer. As others have said a very moving programme. Makes you think.
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Being rear ended is a collision which even the most aware of drivers can suffer as you at at the mercy of the dimwit who fails to stop.
I drive large estate cars for my own other practical reasons but I do also quite like the extra distance it puts between me and the dimwit.
As I mentioned above, in the Ka you can see the whites of their eyes in the rear view mirror.
Very disturbing.
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Mmm, so we should all get big cars/4x4s... then when we all have them what happens then?, do we all move up to transit size.... then 7.5 ton, then.... its a never ending circle.... or perhaps we should all be made to drive small cars and commercial traffic banned from the roads and motorways during rush hours when I suspect many of these accidents happen?
I think the best advice was some I was given 25 years ago when I went on a Police Driving course and the tutor told us in a stationary queue to leave a decent gap in front and turn the front wheels to take you away from the traffic if you are hit - both reducing the impact forces... could be difficult in the middle lane of a motorway, though!
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Mange tout mon brave, au contraire,
I am more than happy for everyone else to have small cars..............
;-)
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I certainly felt not only for the families, but for the guy who shifted lanes just before it happened. It could have been him and you could tell from how he was, that he had become very aware of his own mortality.
Ive been in this situation and it does change your attitude ( I was rear ended by a car at 60 which, had I not seen it coming in my mirror, would have punted me head on into a lorry which was coming the other way, as I was waiting to turn right and wheels were pointing towards the turning. At last minute I turned them to the kerb ).
Its proof if any were needed that crash tests, much like CO2 testing, can only give you a portion of the overall performance in their respective causes. I doubt the end car in that smash would have survived whatever it was tbh.
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just to add some waffle to the above....
until recent years only Volvo and Saab carried out rear end car crash testing. is this still the case?
my sister used to own a small fiat 1.1 sporting, and saw a rear crash test on the car,,,she now owns a volvo!!!!
yep 4x4s are good in crashes mainly of course because they don't have soft crumple zones, (but they tend to roll over, like the crv on the program talked about above)
they have to be solid for what there designed for ie off road, you can't go off roading if the car starts to crumple when bouncing around off road. therefore even though a 4x4 can often took in pretty good condition after an accident the driver can still get a lot of injuries through shock wave traveling through the car not being absorbed through the crumple zones that a start car would have....
its the old line.....you pays your money and take your choice.
when i go on holiday in our family volvo i always fit a steel dog guard in the boot that bolts to the interior roof and suspension turrets, so that if we have an accident we shouldn't be wiped out by flying prams etc from the boot.....
sorry about the waffle,,,,i work for a traffic safety company...
paul
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Can any of the traffic cops who post here answer this.
A fire service officer has the power to shut a road in the absence of a police officer.
In last nights programme the HA officers felt their powers override that of the fire officer. Legally, who is correct. Seeing as the HA officers are a relatively new addition. And in my book, not an emergency service.
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Mange tout
Are you taking the peas ?
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b308 - decent gap essential. As the tutors phrase I remember "tyres and tarmac" implies. Amazing how many drivers squeeze up close in a queue, leaving no escape in the event of trouble brewing. Whether from vehicle, or thief at the lights.
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Or, just as common these days, the Road Rager!
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If i see a queue of stationary traffic on a motorway I either head for the inside lane and leave a gap from the car in front, thereby leaving myself an escape route or head for the outside lane where there are no lorries. I also keep a very careful eye on my rear view mirror and keep my foot on the brake pedal until there is a car behind which has stopped. I figure being hit from behind by a car will increase my chances rather than being hit by a 40 tonner.
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I figure being hit from behind by a car will increase my chances rather than being hit by a 40 tonner
If teh car behind is hit by a 40 tonner and the car is shunted forward most of the impact force will be tranmitted to you.
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Here's a Fiesta I was in that was rear-ended by an HGV:
img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cardamagefy3.jpg
No idea what speed we were doing when hit as I have no memory of the accident itself. The roof in the rear caved in in a "v shape" across the car and nobody would have survived in the rear. But all in all the Fiesta did quite well I think. Not only did an HGV hit us but that was also run into by a tanker lorry.
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> If teh car behind is hit by a 40 tonner and the car is shunted forward most of the impact force will be tranmitted to you.
Not if I'm in the outside lane. I suppose I could be really unlucky and get hit from a trucker who has veered into the 'fast lane'.
Anyway in stationary traffic I try to leave a gap of at least 2 car lengths in front of me. I figure I might have a better chance to live if my car is thrown forward into empty space and not squished from the back and front.
I'm not saying my theory is ideal but anything to increase mine and my families chance of survival is gotta be worth trying. its all about reducing the risk as best you can in a situation you have little or no control over.
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Have to admit I did wonder if was more than coincidence this program went out on the same day as the footballer was jailed.
Not sure if anyone else noticed either, but the driver who was stopped twice for not wearing a seatbelt and having no licence appeared to be travelling in the back of the Police car without again with no seatbelt.
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Watched this on iplayer but never got to see the last 5 mins so not sure if there was a "follow up" saying what had happened etc.
I was also intrigued to see no evidence (unless I missed it) of any checks to establish if driver was using mobile phone?
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Hi Bobby, there was no mention of checking the mobile records, but I would guess the severity of what had happened meant it would not have added anything to the charges the driver was facing.
It was stated at the end the driver could not account for why he failed to see the queue of traffic, meaning the families of the bereaved would never know really know the reasons for the crash.
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From what I've seen of late mobile phone usage is on a checklist of things checked in serious accidents. Perhaps one of the Police Officers here would care to confirm.
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I reckon they will have checked that, they checked everything else, even the Cavalier was inspected. The lorry driver got 4 years so as someone has already said, I doubt that it would have made much difference to the sentence.
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Absolutely everything is checked to discover the cause and discredit any possible defence. A lengthy and time consuming process. One of the reasons for extensive road closures while the scene is meticulously examined.
And I must say having viewed the programme I thought that the manner in which it was put together was a credit to both my colleagues and the film maker. There was something in its making that made me feel as though I was at the scene. Under my breath I even told the lorry driver that 2 people had been killed and one was critical.- Spooky!
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I got the impression that there was a level of compassion shown to the lorry driver, more of a caring arm around him than anything when he was seen being led away. It must be totally devastating for him and his family as well. No winners in that situation.
A few years ago, I was approached by the family of a pedestrian fatality, initially I thought it was to complain about Police. Their tale about the amount of work a (still serving) officer put into identifying the body and tracing them (the victim wasn't carrying any ID) in the small hours of the morning was well beyond what needed to be done. The victim was on bail having been arrested the week before by the same Officer - they wanted to write in to thank him but couldn't find the words. Incidentally I spoke with that Officer last week, still locking people up despite 28 years in the job...its stuff like that that people never read about in their chip paper.
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deep breath.... here goes
i'm left wondering whether the lorry driver was a bit hard done by with his sentence.
Before i'm metaphorically machine gunned by some...what I mean is... the generally good and reasonable folk who end up in a situation that they wish they hadn't, through foolishness or inattention etc, will often 'roll over' and agree they were wrong, plead guilty and accept everything that comes their way..furthermore, for example, they might not ask for a solicitor when arrested and generally look after themselves legally
however,
the oik will know all the dodges, will refuse to answer any questions in an interview, will demand a solicitor at the first hurdle and will have enough knowledge of the legal system to wriggle like a worm on a fish hook
we obviously don't know all the facts about this case and it's difficult to judge from just the proramme, but i am left wondering...
I was particularly impressed with the viewpoint of the lady who lost her husband from the CRV, when she stated "i don't suppose that lorry driver set out that day to kill my husband".
I do agree that 3 deaths needs a reasonable punishment to deter others, but I bear in mind 'causing death by reckless' is often difficult to prove, hence it gets knocked back to 'death by careless'. I wonder whether the lorry driver, so shocked and upset by what he has caused has gone guilty to something, someone with considerably less morals would have ducked...or.. there was more to it that we don't know about.
I wonder if mlc, without disclosing anything he shouldn't, could drop a helpful hint?
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Can't help on that one I'm afraid. I think it was filmed in Humberside or such like. It certainly wasn't one of ours.
It's always a dilemma from a personal (as opposed to Professional) viewpoint. Often those involved are respectable, 'ordinary' members of society. A moments lack of attention causes a death and they face a considerable time in prison. ( Often not much less than that given to the very guilty footballer).
I don't know how the situation can ever be resolved. We all just have to face up to the fact we will always be held accountable for our actions.
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Im with you Wp, there but for the grace of fate go any of us, I would hope the legal system could differentiate between a deliberate motoring idiot, and a human error.
Edited by Old Navy on 09/10/2008 at 13:18
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Still dodging gardening mlc, or does your company car have a direct link to HJ?
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Nope.garden dodging. Just that 'er indoors is in today..in fact she's scowling at me now :)
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Yes it was filmed in Humberside. I will do some digging and see what was the evidence to charge 'Death by Dangerous'. Bear in mind that when the driver was charged 'Death by Careless' was probably not on the books as it is only recent legislation..
Edited by Fullchat on 09/10/2008 at 18:13
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