I heard a rumour that in many inner parts of London, certain areas will be 20mph with average speed cameras that work out your speed whatever way you traverse the area.
Yes I live in Surrey, and we have the LED flashing speed signs mentioned above on our road. Almost permanently illuminated. Maybe in conjunction with a camera they might make a difference and worth the expense of installing them. We have too many Saxo, BMW, Subaru speed merchants in this area. Not only going too fast, but seem to like annoying the hell out of everyone with their tin can exhausts. As per another post, they seem to have a problem with electric windows. Permanently down, letting everyone know their carp taste in music.
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As per another postthey seem to have a problem with electric windows. Permanently down letting everyone know their carp taste in music.
Yeah, but I wanted mine up so as not to get wetter :)
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The flash up warning signs is totally useless, as are normal speed cameras. If they wanted to enforce speed then averaging cameras, active speed humps (i.e. inflate when going over speed) or taffic lights that go red if you've been speeding (as Honest John is always mentioning) are the best devices.
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Personally I think the real answer is more police presence (or is it presents? :) ). Might actually cure some of the dangerous driving that is the real problem !
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Speeding and dangerous driving.... One and the same thing in most cases....
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Speeding and dangerous driving.... One and the same thing in most cases....
Which implies that millions of dangerous drivers have been punished with no more than a small fine and a few points. IMO £60 and 3 points is far from sufficient punishment or deterrent for dangerous driving.
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Speeding and dangerous driving.... One and the same thing in most cases....
Such arrant nonsense, IMHO of course! :-)
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Exactly, plain daft comments such as assuming speeding is dangerous per se is what has finally made me post following lots of reading of the forums.
Its like saying 30mph in a 30mph limit is not dangerous, well it most certainly would be passing a school with children about. Again in a modern car on a motorway is 75mph dangerous driving? Well you are speeding so it must be according to some.
The problem with cameras and warnings tend to come about when related to greedy councils wanting to raise revenue. Here by my work a perfectly good 1/2 mile dual carriageway with a roundabout one end and traffic lights at the other was a 40 limit. A camera was installed and two weeks later the limit reduced to 30mph. Just for the money I expect.
Paul
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A camera was installed and two weeks later the limit reduced to 30mph. Just for the money I expect.
We dont have fixed cameras in Fife, odd that favorite spots for the camera vans are the only two 30 limited dual cariageways for many miles.
Edited by Old Navy on 07/10/2008 at 13:29
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Speeding and dangerous driving.... One and the same thing in most cases....
Nonsense. If I think about the near misses I have had in the last few months - one person driving round a blind bend the on wrong side of the road, one person turning into a junction, crossing wrong side of road, one person in stationary traffic changing lane without checking for traffic in the other lane - I see that all required emergency braking, and none were related to speeding.
Largely speed cameras are there because it is the easiest way to achieve a target (number of 'criminals' caught), make revenue, and create an empire. I am sure some work. Many don't. Even official figures show that to be the case.
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Love it whan a plan comes together... certainly stirred it up...
But from a slightly different tack, I wonder just how many of those 3.5k deaths and all those serious injuries are caused by vehicles which are either exceeding the speed limit or driving too fast for the conditions... would make interesting reading for those of you who replied to my last post...
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caused by vehicles which are either exceeding the speed limit or driving too fast for the conditions
And if anyone knows how to make a driving too fast for the conditions camera, please get it out there asap. Once we get those covering the whole road network we can finally ditch speed limits and speedometers all together.
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Surely its about getting people to drive sensibly? If we could rely on everyone to do that there'd be no need for limits in the first place??
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Surely its about getting people to drive sensibly?
Absolutely. So how do you do that? If I think I am already driving sensibly, no amount of simply ordering me to do something different will make me change [*]. Only explaining what it is that I have misjudged/misunderstood/failed to notice or otherwise done wrong will convince me to do that.
I am simply not built to be happy being dictated to by other people without being given a reason I accept. It saddens me that it seems that so many people are.
[*] Actually, that's not true. I can be forced to do things against my will. But don't expect me to see it as anything other than bullying.
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>> Surely its about getting people to drive sensibly? Absolutely. So how do you do that?
You can't - hence the speed limits... all I'd say to the rest of your post is that either you ARE the most wonderful driver in the universe (in which case I bow low to you), or, more likely, you are like the rest of us and have an over inflated opinion of your abilities... and if you don't like the current situation move countries 'cause I can't see things getting any better! ;)
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>> >> Surely its about getting people to drive sensibly? >> Absolutely. So how do you do that? You can't - hence the speed limits...
That's a very bleak approach. What about all the people who drive un-sensibly below the speed limit? About the only option you have left is to make the speed limit so low that it's not possible to be a danger without exceeding the limit, which is madness. Oh, hang on...
all I'd say to the rest of your post is that either you ARE the most wonderful driver in the universe
Doubtful.
(in which case I bow low to you) or more likely you are like the rest of us and have an over inflated opinion of your abilities...
Much more likely. And if I thought for one moment that the only people involved in setting limits were those to whose driving ability the rest of us *should* bow low, and that their priorities in setting limits made sense to me, I'd be happy to oblige. At the moment I don't think either is the case, so I oblige grudgingly or not at all. I do, of course, still do everything in my ability, however limited that is, to remain safe and courteous.
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>> more likely you are like the rest of >> us and have an over inflated opinion of your abilities... Much more likely.
:)
Very honest, GJD!
I'm not convinced re the "slower" drivers... on an open road then they can lead to rash overtaking, but on 30, and to a lesser extent, 40 limits someone driving slower than the limit won't cause that much delay as in most cases you will only be adding minutes to your journey time... I wonder if the problem is not really the speed limits but people's impatience??
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I wonder if the problem is not really the speed limits but people's impatience??
Both, impatience is highlighted by what people consider to be inappropriate speed limits.
It works both ways, if the limit outside the school was raised to 40 I would be exasperated, likewise if the limit on the M5 was lowered to 60.
The problem with speed limits is that they are often ill though out and too rigorous enforcement then causes the individual to take less responsibility for their actions because they rely on the enforced limit, i.e. they will drive past a school at 30 at 1pm on a Sunday and 8am on a Monday where as if they were encouraged to take more individual responsibility they may do 40 on the Sunday and 15 on the Monday, altogether a safer balance.
Perhaps better still - variable limits based on the above so enforcement is then related to limits that most drivers would feel are appropriate.
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I wonder if the problem is not really the speed limits but people's impatience??
One of the main points of the automobile is speed. If people weren't impatient they would walk or get the bus. Speed limits are anathema to the car and its driver. This is a contradiction built into all of our lives. QED.
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"I am simply not built to be happy being dictated to by other people without being given a reason I accept. It saddens me that it seems that so many people are."
Agree 100%. These "It's for your own good" policies that are being imposed on us in all areas of our lives, often without any consultation, are for me increasingly reminiscent of those used in totalitarian states to keep the populace quiet and compliant.
Totalitarianism
"The political system under which the whole activity of a nation's populace is coordinated and directed by the government, and the government has authority over the entirety of each citizen's life. Totalitarianism depends on surveillance, the ability of the state to find out what its citizens are doing; and on enforcement, its ability to stop them from doing unapproved things and require them to do approved ones. For this reason, people who fear a totalitarian future tend to suspect new technologies of surveillance and enforcement."
One or two people on here appear to be welcoming our new overlords a bit too eagerly.....
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These "It's for your own good" policies that are being imposed on us in all areas of our lives,
That might make sense if speed limits were solely about protecting the driver whose speed limited. But they also protect other road users, not just other drivers but also pedestrians and cyclists and horse-riders, and they are important in maintaining the amenity value of streets.
One of the reasons that speed limit enforcement is so controversial is that a significant minority of drivers think that only issue at stake is their own desire to get from A to B quickly and safely, and in some cases to have fun while driving.
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One of the main points of the automobile is speed. If people weren't impatient they would walk or get the bus. Speed limits are anathema to the car and its driver. This is a contradiction built into all of our lives. QED.
For some people, the car's main attraction may indeed be its speed, but in cities a car is often slow, and used in preference to faster modes of transport such as a bike or tube train. But many people will take cars for lots of other reasons, even if it is slower than the alternatives:- I can carry luggage in the car, whereas trains and buses are now very bad at accommodating bags
- The car goes door-to-door, unlike the bus, so I don't have to stand around in the rain
- The car feels like a zone of personal safety; I have been mugged twice on buses, but never in a car
- My dog is very welcome in my car, but is treated like a pariah on some buses
On long-distance journeys between cities, the train usually wins hands-down for speed. In urban areas, the speed of the car makes little difference to journey times, because most of the delays are at traffic jams, road junctions or finding parking places.
Speed limits are anathema to some drivers, but for many of us they make journeys more relaxing by ensuring that everyone is going at a similar speed.
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Speed limits are anathema to some drivers but for many of us they make journeys more relaxing by ensuring that everyone is going at a similar speed.
I repeat: speed limits are anathema to cars and drivers, not just some. It is inevitable though that everyone will go 'at a similar speed' when the roads are crowded, just as the existence of speed limits is inevitable in a world where Mr Toad and Mr Magoo share the same road space with wandering drunks, unsupervised infant pedestrians, unlit kamikaze cyclists etc.
Actually though NW processional driving is boring as well as relaxing 'for many of us'. The combination of boredom, 'relaxation' and incompetence is a dangerous one too.
Moreover, when roads are crowded, the presence of extreme mimsers is incredibly disruptive. It annoys everyone and drives the hooligan element up the wall. That is why I say that encouraging people to drive even more slowly than necessary (as you often do) is Satan's work.
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It seems to me to be common sense that a vehicle travelling at 20mph less than the average (at say 50 mph), is as dangerous (and more disruptive) in a flow of traffic as one doing 20mph over the average. It's the differential from the average that is dangerous, NOT the speed. Hence a minimum speed limit should be just as important as a maximum one, and in some more enlightened parts of the world you will find them.
The slogan 'Speed Kills' is just that, a slogan.
Edited by darnsarf on 08/10/2008 at 18:27
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